New Car Weights?

[John Bach]

New Preliminary Fastrack tech bulletin says Pinto powered at 1190 lbs. and Zetec at 1210 lbs.

[DaveW]

Several folks requested that change because of the lower weight of the new spec tires.

[kea]

The 20 Lb weight add was not popular with the Zetec crowd, so guess who complained. It is easier (and less expensive) to add weight then remove it.
Are you saving the new Hoosier Spec tires are lighter then the Hoosier 35A (or B) we have been using or that of the radial tire the east coast series had ?
I know very few of the car owners/drivers in the GLC series that can hit the 1200 weight, 1190 is even less likely.
Once again, as much as some say they want the FC owner/drivers to rally together and make the SCCA (Major) races, they keep making changes that will further divide and keep issues present.

[Latebraker]

The 20 Lb weight add was not popular with the Zetec crowd, so guess who complained. It is easier (and less expensive) to add weight then remove it.
Are you saving the new Hoosier Spec tires are lighter then the Hoosier 35A (or B) we have been using or that of the radial tire the east coast series had ?
I know very few of the car owners/drivers in the GLC series that can hit the 1200 weight, 1190 is even less likely.
Once again, as much as some say they want the FC owner/drivers to rally together and make the SCCA (Major) races, they keep making changes that will further divide and keep issues present.

Absolute joke I've seen this in the Karting community with the light group always getting their way and in the end nobody wins because the heavy guy's pack their bags and quite. The light guy's now have great racing because they only have 3 or 4 cars to compete against isn't that fun. It also goes to show how corrupt SCCA is that only certain people can get changes made. The paddock isn't filled with a bunch of 16 year olds anymore look around average age is probably 50 ish and up not everyone can maintain a body body weight of a 160 lbs like some who are fortunate and blessed to keep their teenage weight. Why is it so difficult for some people to give up a little for the better of the sport are their ego and greed that big they only care about themselves.

[BrianT1]

When I started racing the FC minimum weight was 1175. It then migrated to 1190 and then 1200 for all cars. Now we are at 1210 from the 1220 from late last year for the zetec. The 1210 is a good compromise given what we had to deal with at the runoffs. I understand it probably shouldn’t have moved at all from the 1200 but at least it came down a bit, I’m glad for that. I won’t have to stuff lead ingots all over the place.

Also the 1210 keeps the 20 pound weight advantage for the pintos.

Brian

[tahoe z]

When I started racing the FC minimum weight was 1175. It then migrated to 1190 and then 1200 for all cars. Now we are at 1210 from the 1220 from late last year for the zetec. The 1210 is a good compromise given what we had to deal with at the runoffs. I understand it probably shouldn’t have moved at all from the 1200 but at least it came down a bit, I’m glad for that. I won’t have to stuff lead ingots all over the place.

Also the 1210 keeps the 20 pound weight advantage for the pintos.

Brian

What is going on with the scca. Another weight change. This is stupid pick a weight and stick with it I don’t care if it’s 1175 or 1250 doesn’t matter. But what’s courupt as certain people in Scca keep moving the rules and we don’t have any input this class has gone the wrong way in the last 12 months let me V k ow how many pintos all this bs brings out. I want to hear a number.

[mark defer]

What is going on with the scca. Another weight change. This is stupid pick a weight and stick with it I don’t care if it’s 1175 or 1250 doesn’t matter. But what’s courupt as certain people in Scca keep moving the rules and we don’t have any input this class has gone the wrong way in the last 12 months let me V k ow how many pintos all this bs brings out. I want to hear a number.

The SCCA didn't initiate this latest change, we did. Well on second thought I guess since WE are the SCCA you could say the SCCA did. Anyway it was exactly "input" from us racers that requested this change. Are you even aware why this was done?

[Lotus7]

Can't find the reference.
Does a 1210# minimum weight only apply to people running the new spec bias tires, or all FC on any tire?
Effective when?

thanks

[BrianT1]

What is going on with the scca. Another weight change. This is stupid pick a weight and stick with it I don’t care if it’s 1175 or 1250 doesn’t matter. But what’s courupt as certain people in Scca keep moving the rules and we don’t have any input this class has gone the wrong way in the last 12 months let me V k ow how many pintos all this bs brings out. I want to hear a number.

It was suggested at some point late last year (with a letter to SCCA from a driver in FC) that there be weight added to the zetec cars to allow the pinto cars to feel like they can be on more of a level playing field with the zetecs. Now realize that there has already been engine mods given to the pinto which should also make it a potent challenger before any weight changes occurred.

When the weight was changed for the zetec to 1220 it was only a month out from the runoffs and most of us that we're going had to scramble to add the weight. Also the weight for a pinto car never changed so it stayed at 1200 and none showed up to the runoffs.

Most of the zetec cars at the runoffs ran Radials which are about 8 pounds heavier than a bias ply tire. So with the spec tire coming for 2021 quite a few drivers lobbied with letters to the SCCA to lower the zetec weight to 1210 and in order to keep the 20 pound parity to the pinto moving them to 1190.

It was approved in the normal letter writing process and here we are. BOP is nothing new especially in SCCA. If you look at any tin top class they are constantly moving the goal posts for cars to try and level the playing field. We have 2 engines and they have 10. Everything that is being done to help the pinto right or wrong is an attempt to grow numbers in the majors. Those numbers are the only one that count toward participation as a runoffs eligible class.

Brian

[BrianT1]

Can't find the reference.
Does a 1210# minimum weight only apply to people running the new spec bias tires, or all FC on any tire?
Effective when?

thanks

If your running FC in the SCCA then yes you will need to run at 1210 minimum if you are a zetec. If you are a Pinto and running FC you will need to be 1190 minimum. If you run any tire other than the spec you are not FC.

[Lotus7]

If your running FC in the SCCA then yes you will need to run at 1210 minimum if you are a zetec. If you are a Pinto and running FC you will need to be 1190 minimum. If you run any tire other than the spec you are not FC.

Good point.
We're heading to a regional on old tires.

[DaveW]

If your running FC in the SCCA then yes you will need to run at 1210 minimum if you are a zetec. If you are a Pinto and running FC you will need to be 1190 minimum. If you run any tire other than the spec you are not FC.

Good point.
We're heading to a regional on old tires.

The spec tire is not required yet. It's required after 5/1/2021.

From the GCR:
-----------------------------------------------------------
In GCR, section 9.1.1.B.10. add as follows:

Effective 5-1-2021

"g. FC shall be limited to the following tires (tires must be used in their designated position - front/rear - on the car):

Dry:

Front – Hoosier 20.5 x 7.0 – 13 R60A compound - Part Number 43164
Rear – Hoosier 22.0 x 8.0 – 13 R60A compound – Part Number 43285

Wet:

Front – Hoosier 21.0 x 6.5– 13 W3 - Part Number 44185
Rear – Hoosier 22.0 x 8.0 – 13 W3 – Part Number 44196

FC shall be permitted a maximum of four (4) dry tires and four (4) wet tires for all Regional, Major and Super Tour events; eight (8) dry tires and eight (8) wet tires for Runoffs. This rule shall be effective beginning with the first (1st) qualifying session of the event. It is the responsibility of the competitor to ensure that their tires are declared, marked and logged by Tech in advance of their use in on-track session(s).
Use of an undeclared tire shall automatically result in all times being disallowed in that session or loss of finishing position in that race.
If a tire is damaged during a qualifying session or a race the competitor may replace the damaged tire with a used tire upon approval by the Chief Steward without loss of time or finishing position. Second or subsequent damaged tires may similarly be replaced upon approval by the Chief Steward, however such shall result in the loss of grid position in the subsequent race or session; the competitor shall start at the back of the grid. "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[problemchild]

I am torn on this.

It was a joke that a few competitors secretly write letters to SCCA requesting a change (20 lbs, pintos vs zetecs), without declaring their plan to others.

It was a joke for SCCA to put Zetecs and Pintos on different weights, especially after allowing the Pinto engine changes, without other member input.

It was a joke that a few competitors secretly write letters to SCCA requesting a change (lower both by 10 lbs), without declaring their plan to others.

it was a joke for SCCA to then change the Pinto minimum weight to a weight unachievable by 90% of the competitors.

It is the biggest joke of all that some regional groups have a 40 lb weight penalty on Zetecs.

So what we have is the "Just for Laughs" SCCA comedy festival. I keep pointing out that SCCA process needs major reform, and everybody just rolls their eyes, and says "It's fine. Just write a letter". This same BS happens over and over, in every class.

In the end, we have the status quo of early 2020 ...... unless someone building a new pinto-engined team, with a proper effort, and a light driver show up. At which point, we will have some controversy. The one person I know building a new pinto won't make 1200, much less 1190

1210 for everyone is probably best. This is essentially what we will have.

[Bill Johnson 42]

I really don't have a problem with whatever weight we race at. I do have a problem with changing weights in the middle of the season and now again at the beginning of the season.

Had to rush and add weight right before the the "Cat" last year and spent the winter rebuilding my car to add weight and get to 1220. If I'd known we were going to change weights again I would have made different choices with parts for my rebuild. If a rule is not done by December for next year maybe we shouldn't do it.

That being said, I'm ready to go racing and hoping for a good year. Have 3 new cars in my division this year and I think it has a lot to do with the positive attitude put forth by Eakin and Chris on Apex and Facebook that highlight just how great these cars are to drive.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

The last time I race my Pinto and was directed to the scales, I crushed it at 1255.
Buying the car was a reward for losing 25lbs.
I was 235-240. I think I got about 20 lbs out of the car over time.

When the 1220/1200 announcement was made I wasn't really for splitting car weights. Still not. I think it should be 1 weight.

I thought 1220 was reasonable. There are a lot of bigger/older drivers that just can't get to 1200 and the advantage goes to the younger, smaller, slighter drivers. 1220 brought more drivers "in the running".

I recently sold the Pinto and moved to a Zetec. Partially as a self reward for losing more weight. I'm down to 215.

I still don't really care what weight we run. But 1190 for Pintos is stupid hard to obtain. Even at my current weight I'd never make that. The older cars are just heavier.

Moving the target is NOT encouraging. It's discouraging.

How about 1 change at a time so we can actually see what affect things have?

Stop this nonsense. Let's just go back to 1200/1200.

[Purple Frog]

I hate to mention it but there are people with iron head pintos in a '95 chassis that can hit 1175. And they did it many times over the years.

With the new pinto engine rules the cars should weigh the same. Just an opinion.

Remember, rules are made for the first 5 guys at the Runoffs. All the rest don't need to get all twisted around the axle. This from a guy that never crossed the scales under 1230...

[EYERACE]

Eye started a separate thread as a scoreboard - at someone else's request - of wins as Z vs. long rod vs. pinto......and not only did many say the thread was something a kin to stupid....but guess what......Z's seemed have more wins. So if any brains were paying attention perhaps a conclusion might have been that a rule adjustment could be coming later to level a playing field. By the way, I'm 68 and can now remove 10 lbs of ballast from my 94 pinto and still make 1190 like years ago and still have ballast on board.....if other older drivers can't do so, I don't know what to say to them or the rest of y'all besides Eye wrote no letters nor encouraged others to write.

[Purple Frog]

Yes, Zetec cars win more races. duh.
Look at the entries. The zetec drivers on the whole spend more, do more weekends, have better engineering, have more racing experience, spend more effort on setups, spend more on tires... yadda yadda yadda.
If they were stupid enough to spend $12K on a full dresser modern pinto engine with the rare 'trick' head castings... those same experienced guys would also kick a$$.
Heck, I'd even guess that if those same guys drove a clapped out pinto they would kick a$$.

Back to the regular scheduled whining...

[RacerDave51]

We're like a bunch of whinny old Ladies (no disrespect to beloved little old Ladies).
As a club racer, let's just get in the cars and go racing -- like we used to.
For the F1 up-and-coming guys, do the Pro stuff. You will ALWAYS be faster than the 'club' guys that are in it for fun. JMHO

[kea]

Remember, rules are made for the first 5 guys at the Runoffs.

Maybe that's why they have a problem with grid size ?

[Tim Minor]

I want to thank RacerDave51,how do we know what works if FC cars don’t come out to the track.I’m looking forward to seeing everyone and making this class a positive experience for everyone.Not a Sermon,Just a Thought

[problemchild]

Maybe that's why they have a problem with grid size ?

Mike was brutally honest, and it sounds flippant, but in terms of BOP, this is absolutely the way it has to be. Most importantly, it is the way we want it!

We can bring in spec tires, and use other tools to help racers with older cars or lesser budgets, but when it comes for balancing performance between different engines, we can only be comparing cars that are prepared to the highest level.
Who would want to invest in a class where lousy drivers with no funding driving poorly prepared old cars are beating the best drivers in the best cars with the best budgets?

[Latebraker]

Mike was brutally honest, and it sounds flippant, but in terms of BOP, this is absolutely the way it has to be. Most importantly, it is the way we want it!

We can bring in spec tires, and use other tools to help racers with older cars or lesser budgets, but when it comes for balancing performance between different engines, we can only be comparing cars that are prepared to the highest level.
Who would want to invest in a class where lousy drivers with no funding driving poorly prepared old cars are beating the best drivers in the best cars with the best budgets?

So let me get this straight older cars tend to be heavier built than newer cars that have lighter components better aero a more modern engine giving the newer cars an advantage yet adding weight is unfair. So you have added even more weight to the older cars with the new tire and then reduced the minimum weight on the older cars by 10 lbs so what is the total weight an older car have to loose to achieve minimum weight now it isn't 10 lbs is it.
Stop using budget and better prepared zetec cars and drives as reason zetec owners are better because some Pinto owners are just as good a drive or better and have to spend a fortune to make an older car more competitive with the more modern engines and newer cars which will never be as quick.
The fact is the class will never grow attracting Pinto powered older cars because a handful of people can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Look at Vintage grids in Formula Ford bigger than ever for older cars I'm sure you will start seeing it open up for the old Pinto.

[problemchild]

So let me get this straight older cars tend to be heavier built than newer cars that have lighter components better aero a more modern engine giving the newer cars an advantage yet adding weight is unfair. So you have added even more weight to the older cars with the new tire and then reduced the minimum weight on the older cars by 10 lbs so what is the total weight an older car have to loose to achieve minimum weight now it isn't 10 lbs is it.
Stop using budget and better prepared zetec cars and drives as reason zetec owners are better because some Pinto owners are just as good a drive or better and have to spend a fortune to make an older car more competitive with the more modern engines and newer cars which will never be as quick.
The fact is the class will never grow attracting Pinto powered older cars because a handful of people can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Look at Vintage grids in Formula Ford bigger than ever for older cars I'm sure you will start seeing it open up for the old Pinto.

My comment was specific to Mike’s comment and the response it received. It may be harsh, but that is reality. I ran an 83 Reynard in the Pro F1600 Series so I know all about racing older cars. Being over 200 lbs, I also understand the hypocrisy of many of the weight arguments. But that does not change the reality that 30 year old cars will always be inferior to 10 year old cars.

I am on record as saying that lowering the Pinto min weight to a value that 90% of those cars cannot achieve is stupid. I am also on record as saying that Zetec and Pintos should be the same weight, considering the new engine rule changes. Finally, I am on record as saying that a 40 lb handicap between Pintos and Zetecs is the most stupid. That is a valid decision to park your Zetec, IMO, should that ever happen. So you can pick your reason for your next rant against me.

Most of the Pinto cars are more than 20 years old, many past 30. They are affordable and cheap! Great value and fun, but let’s not confuse that with winning big races against the best competition.

The only reason that weights should be changed is as part of BOP to achieve engine parity. Changing weight to compensate for old cars, heavy cars, old drivers, heavy drivers, poor aero cars, lower technology cars, etc is akin to giving “participation trophies” for every kid in the soccer league. FC or F2000 racing has never been considered “bracket racing”. I am good with that.

[EYERACE]

A thought that's not getting mentioned here - and I can't say I know any where but the SouthEast - - - - but the Class went away down here........

I'm certain the same weight rules should apply to CFC, just like FC, but no one is mentioning that there is/was a Club Formula Continental Class as a Divisional and/or Regional concept. When CFC was first introduced in the SouthEast it only lasted maybe one or two seasons about 15 years ago because all the older cars entered races as FC anyway to help keep FC car counts up.

I'm only mentioning this because no one else has brought this up.....and so there can now be even more new carping too

[Latebraker]

My comment was specific to Mike’s comment and the response it received. It may be harsh, but that is reality. I ran an 83 Reynard in the Pro F1600 Series so I know all about racing older cars. Being over 200 lbs, I also understand the hypocrisy of many of the weight arguments. But that does not change the reality that 30 year old cars will always be inferior to 10 year old cars.

I am on record as saying that lowering the Pinto min weight to a value that 90% of those cars cannot achieve is stupid. I am also on record as saying that Zetec and Pintos should be the same weight, considering the new engine rule changes. Finally, I am on record as saying that a 40 lb handicap between Pintos and Zetecs is the most stupid. That is a valid decision to park your Zetec, IMO, should that ever happen. So you can pick your reason for your next rant against me.

Most of the Pinto cars are more than 20 years old, many past 30. They are affordable and cheap! Great value and fun, but let’s not confuse that with winning big races against the best competition.

The only reason that weights should be changed is as part of BOP to achieve engine parity. Changing weight to compensate for old cars, heavy cars, old drivers, heavy drivers, poor aero cars, lower technology cars, etc is akin to giving “participation trophies” for every kid in the soccer league. FC or F2000 racing has never been considered “bracket racing”. I am good with that.

Just to be clear it isn't a rant against you personally. This isn't about a trophy for participation it's about rules written to suit a very small group that go to the runoff's maybe 10 cars what about all the club racers who have to follow these rules. There will never be parity in engines they can show all the dyno numbers they want doesn't mean jack a zetec with much lighter internals 4 valve 4 port equal length runners fuel injected management system will out perform a 2 valve carbureted engine on a short track or you made a mistake or got in to slower traffic a Pinto could never recover as quick. We had 22 cars about 50/50 Pinto Zetec enter the NWFC race at Mission Raceway with the SCCBC. Mission is more of a sprint track and we had Andy Pearson from Specialty Engineering who is one of the best engine builders in North America watching the race and his comment after the event was the Pinto will never compete with the Zetec unless they allow much lighter internals to allow it to spin up faster. After the event we as a club amen or rule and added 40 lbs to the zetec unfortunately we never got a chance to see how the weight diff plays out because 2020 COVID hit we shut down half the season so most of the fc's parked it for the season. I thought this was about getting entries because the class is dying. All of the bs could be put to bed by creating two groups A&B two separate championships 97 & older this way know one has to give up anything and who have spent as much or more on their Pinto powered older cars get to participate in a championship that isn't one sided.

[Hardingfv32]

....Changing weight to compensate for old cars, heavy cars, old drivers, heavy drivers, poor aero cars, lower technology cars, etc is akin to giving “participation trophies” for every kid in the soccer league.

Why is it golf developed the popular handicap system?

Brian

[reidhazelton]

FC is a formula based class. FC is not a balance of performance class.

The only thing that should be equalized are the engines - not chassis. If you want that, throw a body on your FC and go to P2.

(Says a guy with an older car that got pushed out when parity was lost. I get the frustration, but it's how formula classes go.)

[problemchild]

Alan's engine builder's opinion is not shared by the 2 East Coast engine builders I have talked to, who are very active in the class. Adding 40 lbs to a car affects a lot more than acceleration. It is a car handicap, not an engine handicap.

Again, only my opinion, but I have no problem with 35 year old cars being slower than 8 year old cars. Having been involved with championship level drivers, cars, and teams, I know the high levels of preparation, cost, and execution involved. In projecting our budget to do the 2021 Runoffs, that number is more than I can buy most Pinto FC cars for. And I have no doubt, that we will be outspent. If someone is going to make that commitment, it would only make sense to start with a newer car, which would include a Zetec engine.

[Rick Kirchner]

eight year old cars... How many FC's have been built since 2013? Or for that matter, true FCs since 08?

[RSS]

Just to be clear it isn't a rant against you personally. This isn't about a trophy for participation it's about rules written to suit a very small group that go to the runoff's maybe 10 cars what about all the club racers who have to follow these rules. There will never be parity in engines they can show all the dyno numbers they want doesn't mean jack a zetec with much lighter internals 4 valve 4 port equal length runners fuel injected management system will out perform a 2 valve carbureted engine on a short track or you made a mistake or got in to slower traffic a Pinto could never recover as quick. We had 22 cars about 50/50 Pinto Zetec enter the NWFC race at Mission Raceway with the SCCBC. Mission is more of a sprint track and we had Andy Pearson from Specialty Engineering who is one of the best engine builders in North America watching the race and his comment after the event was the Pinto will never compete with the Zetec unless they allow much lighter internals to allow it to spin up faster. After the event we as a club amen or rule and added 40 lbs to the zetec unfortunately we never got a chance to see how the weight diff plays out because 2020 COVID hit we shut down half the season so most of the fc's parked it for the season. I thought this was about getting entries because the class is dying. All of the bs could be put to bed by creating two groups A&B two separate championships 97 & older this way know one has to give up anything and who have spent as much or more on their Pinto powered older cars get to participate in a championship that isn't one sided.

Alan did you guys add another 40lbs on top of the 40lbs the NWFC already added? As NWFC car weights are at 1240(zetec) already so all the Zetecs in that race where at or above that level. I personally weighed in at 1260ish for that race finishing third on the AR tires with Greg in the top Pinto just behind me.

3	19	Roger Smetaniuk	16	19:40.364	00:08.623	01:08.412	14	111.559
4	04	Greg Coffin	16	19:43.876	00:12.135	01:08.501	14	111.414

Car Compare
Roger - 2004 Mygale - Zetec - AR - 1260lb
Greg - 1999 Mygale - Pinto - Avon - Weight?

Greg and I are fairly close driver wise but the real kicker is on Avon's I am 2 seconds/lap faster at Mission.

[Latebraker]

Alan did you guys add another 40lbs on top of the 40lbs the NWFC already added? As NWFC car weights are at 1240(zetec) already so all the Zetecs in that race where at or above that level. I personally weighed in at 1260ish for that race finishing third on the AR tires with Greg in the top Pinto just behind me.

3	19	Roger Smetaniuk	16	19:40.364	00:08.623	01:08.412	14	111.559
4	04	Greg Coffin	16	19:43.876	00:12.135	01:08.501	14	111.414

Car Compare
Roger - 2004 Mygale - Zetec - AR - 1260lb
Greg - 1999 Mygale - Pinto - Avon - Weight?

Greg and I are fairly close driver wise but the real kicker is on Avon's I am 2 seconds/lap faster at Mission.

We changed the SCCA rule to match the NWFC 1240lbs for Zetec.

[problemchild]

eight year old cars... How many FC's have been built since 2013? Or for that matter, true FCs since 08?

There have been small quantities of Citation, Mygales, Radons, and Firmans built over the last decade. Our Citation is 6 years old. The VDs that run at the front are highly developed cars, rarely the fire sale priced cars we see being sold. The two VDs that shared the front row of the Runoffs last year were engineered by Dan Campbell and Don Connor. There is a whole lot more going on than using Zetec engines.

There are many reasons why more cars have not been sold, but a HUGE part is because older cars and engines remain so competitive. That happens with a stable rule package. Now people can buy 35 year old cars for 10% of the value of a new one, and be pissed off because they believe they cannot win with it, or because those cars are not given a suitable handicap. The FV, FF, and FC classes are very unique in the motorsports world that 30-40 year old cars can still win races against much newer cars. I remain convinced that we should be celebrating this characteristic, rather than complaining that old cars do not win more often.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I hate to mention it but there are people with iron head pintos in a '95 chassis that can hit 1175. And they did it many times over the years.

With the new pinto engine rules the cars should weigh the same. Just an opinion.

Remember, rules are made for the first 5 guys at the Runoffs. All the rest don't need to get all twisted around the axle. This from a guy that never crossed the scales under 1230...

The simple fact is the cockpit on these VD cars were designed for a 5'6" 11 stone Englishman and when you walk through a paddock in the US that size accounts for maybe 1/5. And it's not just weight. Height, arm length, etc. are all issues.

So, the class customer has changed.

[Bob Wright]

Umm...I fit really nicely in my '95 VD and I'm 6', 205 lbs with big shoulders. On the other hand, a Mygale probably is built for 5' 6" whatevers...

And I agree with Greg that an older car 'well driven' can be competitive, especially with the long rod kit, light flywheel and Aluminum head...

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Umm...I fit really nicely in my '95 VD and I'm 6', 205 lbs with big shoulders. On the other hand, a Mygale probably is built for 5' 6" whatevers...

And I agree with Greg that an older car 'well driven' can be competitive, especially with the long rod kit, light flywheel and Aluminum head...

I did too. Shoulders fit nicely into the space between the bars touching the bodywork. 2 rounds of cockpit widening so I could actually touch the starter button with my left hand. Then again, not "designed" for guys our size.

But can you make even 1190 with an iron head?
We needed to see the long-rod pan out before we started changing weights.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

For what it's worth, I'm 6'3", and when I really, really, push hard on a fitness program I can manage 205lbs, but usually end up around 210.

The VD I purchased in 2019 weighed around 1245 with me in it. I had no idea how I was going to make it lighter. I ended up building a new VD for the 2020 season, mostly to start with fresh body work and build it being mindful of weight in every little detail.

So far I figured it's averaged out to be between $800 and $1000 / lb of weight savings. I don't have too much sympathy for those complaining about having to add weight. I dream of having to be in that situation. Sadly, no matter what I do I always feel a slight disadvantage because my mass will always be in a fixed spot (my body) as opposed to those who can move it around an keep it low.

But I'm also a believer in racing to the rules rather then changing the rules to race.

From what I've seen none of these rule changes ever bring more people out to the track.

[BrianT1]

I'm 5'11 and weight 215. I never had an issue making 1200 lb minimum with a half gallon of fuel left in the car or fitting into my car comfortably. I run an aluminum floor and a Lithium Ion battery. Outside of that my bodywork is in good shape and its pretty light. I have drilled drive shafts, aluminum tripod housings, pretty much the same as every other car out there I imagine.

When I had to run 1175 with my pinto it was quite a few years ago and I was probably closer in weight to 195 lbs. So I'm ok with it being 1200 or 1210. 1220 was just stupid and I couldn't or wouldn't even consider 1240.

Brian

[Latebraker]

Umm...I fit really nicely in my '95 VD and I'm 6', 205 lbs with big shoulders. On the other hand, a Mygale probably is built for 5' 6" whatevers...

And I agree with Greg that an older car 'well driven' can be competitive, especially with the long rod kit, light flywheel and Aluminum head...

Who makes aluminum cylinder heads fast forward no longer makes them is there a new supplier . Have flywheel weights changed to match Zetec flywheel weights.

[recaryob]

Finally got mine altogether and scaled. ‘99 VD Pinto with an iron head. I’m 6’3” 215. With the new spec bias plys, I’m 1185 with 2 gallons in the cell. When the new aero bits arrive, i’m expecting to loose another 5-10lbs.

No crazy exotic lightweight pieces, just tried to be smart when choosing accessories.