An FS (Formula Super) Thread

[RussMcB]

I'm wondering if there are people in various SCCA regions running in FS by simply changing the class letters on there car.

I recently realized that was possible between FC and FX (which surprised me).

The FS rules start out with a class definition stating:

"A formula for purpose built, highly modified single-seat, open-wheel, open cockpit racing cars, which meetthe general regulations of Section 9. of the GCR for Formula Category cars, yet are different in concept andspecifications from the current SCCA Formula classes."

(my bold emphasis added)

So, a car that legally fits in an SCCA class cannot run in FS, right?

[bill gillespie]

I'm wondering if there are people in various SCCA regions running in FS by simply changing the class letters on there car.

I recently realized that was possible between FC and FX (which surprised me).

The FS rules start out with a class definition stating:

"A formula for purpose built, highly modified single-seat, open-wheel, open cockpit racing cars, which meetthe general regulations of Section 9. of the GCR for Formula Category cars, yet are different in concept andspecifications from the current SCCA Formula classes."

(my bold emphasis added)

So, a car that legally fits in an SCCA class cannot run in FS, right?

Russ,
My opinion is that “different specifications “ is the key.. ie “ my 016 in FA runs at 1450 with the rediculous 31mm SIR... It can run unrestricted in FS... the way it was designed... so can a Benneton FI... If I were King, FS would be a Majors class... I know you couldn’t succeed at balance of performsnce, and it would be a Formula Libre class... but it would be fun, and great to see/hear the occasional F1 V10 go screaming by...ymmv ????

[Purple Frog]

All a FM had to do in the past to run FS was remove some exhaust baffles, or run Hoosier tires.
A FC can run in FS just by pulling 80# of ballast and running below minimum weight. or, pull the restrictor out of the zetec... greater fun.

[RussMcB]

I agree (with both). It's pretty easy to make a change to a car to make it illegal for the original class.

In the beginning it required homologation, but that's no longer a requirement.

[Jnovak]

Is there any chance that this catch all class can survive as a national championship class?

Opinions please.

[Peter Olivola]

Is there any chance that this catch all class can survive as a national championship class?

Opinions please.

I think you're confusing FS with FX. The former is a regional only class. The latter competes for Runoffs qualifications in all Majors.

[Jnovak]

Thanks Peter, how do you think the balance of performance can be achieved in the majors class and how long might it take? This will be a very serious test of BOP efforts.

Thanks for catching my error, i knew my question was a problem.

[Peter Olivola]

Thanks Peter, how do you think the balance of performance can be achieved in the majors class and how long might it take? This will be a very serious test of BOP efforts.

Thanks for catching my error, i knew my question was a problem.

I don't think BOP should be applied to FX at all. Agreeing with Greg, I think FX is a class for middle performance formula cars that drop below Runoffs sustainable numbers to go with a chance to rebuild their numbers. A place where each sub class can establish it's own program to achieve that. Applying BOP would just prolong a slow deterioration and not afford that opportunity.

[Steve Demeter]

Can someone enlighten me to the procedure. I might have to do so if Great Lakes decides to use the Spec Tire on CFC. I would then become illegal for CFC because I would be running old Hoosiers (r35)

Thanks in advance,

[Jnovak]

I don't think BOP should be applied to FX at all. Agreeing with Greg, I think FX is a class for middle performance formula cars that drop below Runoffs sustainable numbers to go with a chance to rebuild their numbers. A place where each sub class can establish it's own program to achieve that. Applying BOP would just prolong a slow deterioration and not afford that opportunity.

I must be very confused Peter as i did not phrase my question properly so let me try again

I meant my question to be about the future of the new FS class.

1. IS there any intent to merge other OW classes that cannot make numbers into the new FS class?

2. If other ow classes cannot make numbers will they then be merged into the FS class?

3. Will all of these classes be merged into a single larger class or will there be seperate classes and trophys?

I have more questions but now is not the time to start a huge discussion!

I do realize that this is a very difficult discussion subject at this point in time.

[Peter Olivola]

I must be very confused Peter as i did not phrase my question properly so let me try again

I meant my question to be about the future of the new FS class.

1. IS there any intent to merge other OW classes that cannot make numbers into the new FS class?

2. If other ow classes cannot make numbers will they then be merged into the FS class?

3. Will all of these classes be merged into a single larger class or will there be seperate classes and trophys?

I have more questions but now is not the time to start a huge discussion!

I do realize that this is a very difficult discussion subject at this point in time.

I assume you meant FX as explained above.

I have no insight into the CRB's intentions but I think it's clear they have created a mechanism to provide continuing Runoffs participation for declining formula classes that would fit within the performance envelope of the current FX classes. I also think that doesn't extend to any non-winged formula cars or anything with a performance envelope significantly higher than the middle range of performance.

[John Nesbitt]

Can someone enlighten me to the procedure. I might have to do so if Great Lakes decides to use the Spec Tire on CFC. I would then become illegal for CFC because I would be running old Hoosiers (r35)

Thanks in advance,

As long as your car is already homologated (i.e. FC), all you need to do is register in FS and stick on the proper class designator. Probably a good idea to have a conversation with the Chief of Tech to explain your reasoning. Also, if you have previously run at that track as CFC or FC, confirm with T&S that they have the proper class down for you.

Your car was originally homologated in FC, a Runoffs class. You have been running it in CFC, an optional Regional class. You would be doing exactly the same thing: running a car homologated in a Runoffs class in a Regional class (CFC, and now, FS).

You might consider running it in FC, competing in class with other cars. In FS, you will very likely be the only car, and certainly the only originally-FC car. It is entirely up to your preference.

[John LaRue]

I think Peter and John have pretty much nailed it. FS is a regional only class and is not something new to the book. FX can accommodate other OW winged classes that fall within the performance envelope if necessary; let's hope participation numbers remain strong such that this does not become necessary. The various cars/classes within FX may, at their discretion, make arrangements for separate awards however this is not something that SCCA will oversee. Moses Smith discussed this with SCCA for FM however I do not know the status.

[Jerry Kehoe]

Years ago after I bought my March 87B to install the BMW motor in it that I ran in a RT4 in FS for a number of years. I contacted SCCA tech dept to see if the March could be homologated as was required at the time. I was told I would have to change the roll bar to have forward braces which the car was never designed for in terms of the tub so I mentioned neither the Ralts or Swift cars had anything like that and certainly the March met the requirements of the FIA so it certainly had to meet the standards of those cars since they did win the FIA F3000 championship and the FIA would certainly have the data needed. Guess what even SCCA could not get the FIA to even respond to them at which point I contacted ACCUS and Nick Craw and nothing happened. Bottom line I took it Vintage racing and skipped the politics. It would be interesting to see if anything has really changed!

[John LaRue]

Years ago after I bought my March 87B to install the BMW motor in it that I ran in a RT4 in FS for a number of years. I contacted SCCA tech dept to see if the March could be homologated as was required at the time. I was told I would have to change the roll bar to have forward braces which the car was never designed for in terms of the tub so I mentioned neither the Ralts or Swift cars had anything like that and certainly the March met the requirements of the FIA so it certainly had to meet the standards of those cars since they did win the FIA F3000 championship and the FIA would certainly have the data needed. Guess what even SCCA could not get the FIA to even respond to them at which point I contacted ACCUS and Nick Craw and nothing happened. Bottom line I took it Vintage racing and skipped the politics. It would be interesting to see if anything has really changed!

Read GCR 9.2.2 which begins on page 73 of January's on-line GCR. Some years ago a good deal of the red tape was removed concerning homologation; this may or may not help you.

[Steve Demeter]

As long as your car is already homologated (i.e. FC), all you need to do is register in FS and stick on the proper class designator. Probably a good idea to have a conversation with the Chief of Tech to explain your reasoning. Also, if you have previously run at that track as CFC or FC, confirm with T&S that they have the proper class down for you.

Your car was originally homologated in FC, a Runoffs class. You have been running it in CFC, an optional Regional class. You would be doing exactly the same thing: running a car homologated in a Runoffs class in a Regional class (CFC, and now, FS).

You might consider running it in FC, competing in class with other cars. In FS, you will very likely be the only car, and certainly the only originally-FC car. It is entirely up to your preference.

I would except the cost of buying NEW tires would break my piggy bank!!!!

[problemchild]

I would except the cost of buying NEW tires would break my piggy bank!!!!

I don't really think anybody is going to care about a car running many seconds off the pace at a regional event. The new tires sound very good. I am sure people will be giving away good take-offs by mid-summer. Run FC and support the class numbers.

[Stan Clayton]

I don't see FS in the Feb 2021 GCR. Did I miss it?

[Purple Frog]

I know this is confusing to so many of you...

FS is a regional class only. It can be implemented by divisions or regions on their on. Its been around for a long time.

FX is a new Majors class (see new GCR) to try to have a place to put previous national formula classes that no longer have enough numbers to sustain as a Runoffs class.

explained in way too much detail here: https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?90558-FS-future

Got it?

[Stan Clayton]

I know this is confusing to so many of you...

FS is a regional class only. It can be implemented by divisions or regions on their on. Its been around for a long time.

I am not confused, Frog. FS appeared in the GCR for many years (probably decades) up though the 2019 issue as a Regional Only Class. I'm just pointing out that it has been dropped from the GCR. I just wished they'd left it in there just like ASR, another long-time Regional Only Class that continues to appear in the GCR.

[Fred Michael]

I am not confused, Frog. FS appeared in the GCR for many years (probably decades) up though the 2019 issue as a Regional Only Class. I'm just pointing out that it has been dropped from the GCR. I just wished they'd left it in there just like ASR, another long-time Regional Only Class that continues to appear in the GCR.

Hi Stan
It's there. Page 262 of the Feb 21 GCR

[Stan Clayton]

Thanks Fred! Kind'a weird it doesn't appear in the index, but hey, at least it's still there.

[John Nesbitt]

I would except the cost of buying NEW tires would break my piggy bank!!!!

Just remember the old expression ... Age and treachery beat youth and stickers.



Something like that, anyway.