A-Frame Anti-Intrusion Bar Fabrication

[Rick Iverson]

Gents;

Firstly, my suspension has fresh electroless Ni, and I want to go in a different direction. Presumably it can be removed. Thoughts?

Next, my fronts are NOS, and without anti-intrusion bars. Anyone know of a fabricator that does first cabin modifications? I would prefer one stop shopping for the stripping Ni stripping, bars TIG’d, and Parkerizing (Na bath nitriding). Recommendations, please.

Happy New Year, friends.

[Steve Demeter]

IIRC according to Carroll Smith you can weld right through Electroless Nickel. No need to strip it before welding then.

[bassracer]

I'm also adding to an RF95.

Hijacking this thread for slightly different request - can anyone measure and share what their stock VD intrusion bars are (maybe only 97+ cars?). if not, Any recommendations from A-arm fabricators? On my past car I used 5/8x0.058 which might be quite heavy on these newer, larger arms. Advice appreciated.

[cjsmith]

My VD intrusion bars (measuring parts from the 97 and 2000 car parts) are 5/8" OD 4130 Chrome molly .058 wall. The male insert is .50" dia and 1.75".

[EricP]

I need bars added to my upper A-arms as well. I have had Ron Mong at Elite Fab recommended to me by various people. Fortunately he is 20 minutes from my house (Columbus, OH). I’m calling him today and hope to drop stuff off today or Monday.

I’ll post what I find. Or you can call him:

http://elitefab.com/contact/

[Rick Iverson]

Eric, photos and comments on the finished product, please?

I need bars added to my upper A-arms as well. I have had Ron Mong at Elite Fab recommended to me by various people. Fortunately he is 20 minutes from my house (Columbus, OH). I’m calling him today and hope to drop stuff off today or Monday.

I’ll post what I find. Or you can call him:

http://elitefab.com/contact/

[EricP]

Bars added. We chose to do a solid bar rather than the split/sleeved style because my upper arms are short and really don’t flex significantly for installation. He was careful to be sure the bars he added were a snug fit so they wouldn’t “suck in” when welded. He can do the sleeved style if desired.

He is sending them to be replated in nickel.

[EricP]

Pic....

[DaveW]

Bars added. We chose to do a solid bar rather than the split/sleeved style because my upper arms are short and really don’t flex significantly for installation. He was careful to be sure the bars he added were a snug fit so they wouldn’t “suck in” when welded. He can do the sleeved style if desired.

He is sending them to be replated in nickel.

Hope they fit OK. Whenever I've had a triangulated, or even just 1-piece, V-shaped a-arm, I've run into issues with the distance between the rodend balls not matching the distance between the frame suspension pickups in spite of our (Citation) best efforts to avoid issues. And since you have rodends at the inner ends of these, any change in length to reset camber or caster will cause a bind or unwanted side load on the rodends.

We now make only 2-piece a-arms to avoid this problem.

Since you've already done these, I hope they work out for you. IMO, you should try them for fit before you get them plated.

If you do have fitment issues, you can always cut the bars and retrofit a sleeve to allow them to be a bit more flexible.

I have issues with the use of anti-intrusion bars in general. Basically, IMO, they offer a false sense of security since the small sizes generally used (no size specified in the GCR, and they are only "recommended") are just not strong enough to do much good. They, in my experience, have never prevented an a-arm from intruding if it was damaged enough to do so. And it's not just because they were the "sleeved" type - some have just ripped off at their welded ends.

[EricP]

Hope they fit OK. Whenever I've had a solid, or even just 1-piece, a-arm, I've run into issues with the distance between the rodend balls not matching the distance between the frame suspension pickups in spite of our (Citation) best efforts to avoid issues. And since you have rodends at the inner ends of these, any change in length to reset camber or caster will cause a bind or unwanted side load on the rodends.

We now make only 2-piece a-arms to avoid this problem.

Since you've already done these, I hope they work out for you. IMO, you should try them for fit before you get them plated.

If you do have fitment issues, you can always cut the bars and retro-fit a sleeve to allow them to be a bit more flexible.

I have issues with the use of anti-intrusion bars in general. Basically, IMO, they offer a false sense of security since the size required by the rules is just not strong enough to do much good. They, in my experience, have never prevented an a-arm from intruding if it was damaged enough to do so. And it's not just because they were the "sleeved" type - some have just ripped off at their welded ends.

Ugh. I should have checked with you. I guess we'll see and retrofit sleeve if need be.

As far as the function of the bars in general... I have my doubts but I feel like they should be there... I guess if I get skewered, I'd like to think I did something to try to prevent.

[problemchild]

Especially with the angle of those rod ends. There will be virtually no adjustment available.

While the anti-intrusion protection is arguable, the slightest resistance or delay in collapse may have an important positive effect. I think remembering to drill and pin them is critical though. A drill and $5 bag of split pins will do a lot of A-arms!

[EACIII]

My A-arms are split in the middle, treaded with a large adjuster nut on them. Piece of cake to install and adjust. Also less issue when welding the bar on

[Rick Iverson]

'split/sleeved style'

Bars added. We chose to do a solid bar rather than the split/sleeved style because my upper arms are short and really don’t flex significantly for installation. He was careful to be sure the bars he added were a snug fit so they wouldn’t “suck in” when welded. He can do the sleeved style if desired.

He is sending them to be replated in nickel.

[JHerscher]

.

[EricP]

My lowers are split like those above. Uppers at this point are solid. I’m going to fit and report back...

[DaveW]

Split sleeve.

[Rick Iverson]

Dave, may I trouble you the citation in the GCR, please?

Basically, IMO, they offer a false sense of security since the size required by the rules is just not strong enough to do much good.

[DaveW]

Dave, may I trouble you the citation in the GCR, please?

No dimensions specified - so they can be any size (I didn't remember that) - and, they are only "recommended."

[JHerscher]

Rick, on my RF01, I believe they are 1/2” and 3/8”x1/16” tubing. The main tube is the 1/2”. Say the distance between the two legs is 20”. The 1/2” OD tube is about 16” long. The 3/8” OD tube is on the trailing edge and slips inside the 1/2” tube for a distance of ?”. I assume a few inches. Each is welded to their respective starting leg. The 3/8” tube can slide in and out of the 1/2” to allow for rod end changes in the length between the legs. If that makes sense.

John

[billtebbutt]

I always thought that by adding these bars to the front 4 wishbones, i was increasing the chance that I got hurt.......

But those are the rules up here....

best
bt

[DaveW]

I always thought that by adding these bars to the front 4 wishbones, i was increasing the chance that I got hurt.......

But those are the rules up here....

best
bt

Yup - more sharp ends after a wreck...