lola 99 remove fuel cell bladder
Hello guys, any of you have experience removing fuel cell bladders from car, in this case a lola b99 with the opening behind the seat, i guess i have to remove the hard cover from the cell so i can access the inside of the bladder, then somehow compress and extract.
Is this the correct process, any special technique, or tip ???
Rodorico,
If it is like my 1996 Lola, it is a wet cell fitting with two sealing gaskets under the mounting bulkhead (called the front hatch by Lola) The gaskets for this are 9720-12012 (outer gasket) and F3000-FHG (inner gasket). They are probably standard Marston gaskets. You have to drain the cell completely before unscrewing the mounting screws. If not the fuel will seep into the cockpit. It is assumed that once the mounting bulkhead is removed you can compress the cell and remove. To access the pump and filter you have to pull the top plate off and remove these items from the top.
My car has the front hatch much lower in the cockpit with the bottom of the hatch almost on the floor.
Charlie Warner
fatto gatto racing
'Cause there's bugger-all down here on earth!
Did you remove the hatch by yourself at any point ?
I was giving it a try yesterdays and looks quite tight, after removing all bolts there was no way to remove the hatch by hand.
i can even feel kind of rubber sealing. I was a bit scary of trying to cut as i did not want to damage the bladder.
i have not removed mine. I believe you should be able to remove all bolts and push the plate inwards. You will have to gently separate the sealing gaskets. Then rotate the plate sideways by flattening the cell so you can extract the plate.Originally Posted by rodorico83
is there a compelling reason the remove the cell?
Charlie Warner
fatto gatto racing
'Cause there's bugger-all down here on earth!
I think he is putting a different engine in.
I manage to remove the hatch, after applying carefully some heat, looks like this has been never opened before...
the seal is just a nitrile rubber sheet cut to size, something like
https://www.par-group.co.uk/sealing-...bber-sheeting/
Reason to remove bladder is that needs service, I notice some bladder crack in the top part, on some tight corners, also rubber its gone on other spots, so i will like to extract revise and patch as necessary.
Here some pics.
Anybody knows what is the standard price for services bladder at ATL ??
Im really considering to do myself...
I read good reviews about this fuel cell sealant, anybody knows about it ??
https://www.aircraftspruce.eu/aeroli...ealant-sgl.htm
Last edited by rodorico83; 10.19.20 at 6:29 AM.
If that is the original cell from 1999, I doubt ATL will repair it. Fuel cells have a life of 5 years from manufacture and can be re-certified for a maximum of 2 additional years if returned to the manufacturer before the end of the 5th year. See link below:
http://www.atlinc.com/faqs_racing.html
no need to use ATL. Go to your local aviation fuel cell shop and have them repair and reseal. Emphasize you do not need certification, just a safe and clean cell. If you do need certificates then the search will narrow and the process is more costly.
Charlie Warner
fatto gatto racing
'Cause there's bugger-all down here on earth!
It is has almost 25 years old and has a hole you can put your finger through. Time for a new one.....
first if all, probably impossible to find a new one. Secondly, a good fuel cell specialist can bring it back to life.
Charlie Warner
fatto gatto racing
'Cause there's bugger-all down here on earth!
If ATL made them originally, then it's quite possible they will have the drawings so a new, certificated cell could be manufactured.
I can't see any tech scrutineer allowing an out of date, uncertified cell to be used and, to be honest, I wouldn't want to be sitting anywhere near one.
The cell in the pictures looks completely shot - tears, large wear patches, dried out - cost of repair (if even possible) vs. cost of new?
I know about 5 year cell lifetime, however that does not mean that after 5 years it must be changed, not if i do not need any certification, normally life of these bladders are longer, even more if they are kept full most of the time.
This one has been dry for more than 8 years....
I will check price of new and repair at ATL, and try to find other fuell cell workshops to contrast, is funny charles when you say check your local fuel cell repair shop, like they would be around the corner lol... so far i could not find by myself any in belgium.
I wonder if repair can the current rubber be reused, with just applying more rubber and autoclave it, or has to be completely removed.
ill keep you posted.
in my opinion an uncertified cell is as safe as a certified one as long as periodical checking is perform...
true when i took is out and saw that the external rubber coating is gone on 30% of the surface... is more than what i though....
check Premier Cells in UK for new one. They do good/FIA work. Much closer to you than ATL...
https://www.premier-fuel-systems.com/
Bob L.
edit...be sure to tell them what fuel you'll be using... alcohol or "gasoline".....makes a huge difference.
(looking at your photos, my opinion: forget patching...it's time. I patched an old Marson (UK) cell in a Lola FF with rubber sheet and special adhesive, patches worked, but always was a worry...do it right....mental comfort is good!)
For what it is worth - - -
Whenever I have had a new cell made to replace a old (original) fuel cell - three times now - I have always had the new one approx 1/4" - 3/8" (6-10 mm) smaller (narrower) on each surface. Then filled the "gap" with foam or a smooth surface to avoid rubbing and wearing. The insides of some fuel cell compartments (as designed) are not fit for purpose to me.
In each case the new cell lasted ten years or more with no problems. The three cars were an FF, FAtl and F3000 - all Lolas in case that matters!
Charles suggested buying original seals for the manhole covers (handhole covers?). I don't think that is necessary. On my F3000 I machined a new ring to install the main cover and just used regular sheet gasket material. This was suggested by Eagle Fuel Cells who said they did it frequently on many of the aircraft cells they make.
ATL has a UK base or Simtech in Froyennes, Belgium, is even closer and are a manufacturer of FIA-approved cells.
If ATL made the original tanks for Lola, it is very likely they will have the drawings and/or tooling - for the time taken to send one email, ask them the question.
Last edited by tlracer; 10.20.20 at 2:30 AM.
I agree on the mental comfort thing !!!!!
I will check with these guys.
thanks bob
yes some rubber sheet will do tht job nicely
there is also serial number in the back of the cell, it might help.
Definitily i will check with them.
Derek, how much was that new cell for the f3000 ???
Somewhere between $2-$3000 usd - don't remember exactly - was 10-15 years ago.
Rodorico,
Every major airport should have a repair/maintenance shop nearby. Or, send the old cell to Fuel Safe in the US for their opinion. I had a new cell made for my Shadow using the old one as a pattern. It took about 4 months and cost about $2500. It did not have the same internal mounting structure as your cell has. I assume you have checked with Pit Lane Spares
Charlie Warner
fatto gatto racing
'Cause there's bugger-all down here on earth!
ok seems fair price.
for sure there should be but find them googleing is tricky
wow 4 months. I hope to have mine ready in less than 2, new or repair
Actually I did not check with Alex, If they have, I guess will be old, but anyway i will check with him also.
Cost from ATL, pain on my pocket...
DD-ZG-076 CELL FUEL ASSY LOLA F3000 1996 £3,294.37 +vat and shipping
Checking other options...
That looks about in line with the price dereklola paid for his, 10 -15 years ago, allowing for inflation, etc.
Costly yes, but much less painful than chemical burns from fuel (or worse)...
Don't forget, you're going to need the whole surface of the original tank resealing (once the damaged parts have been repaired). There is no point in just doing the bad parts only, as the rest of it is a leak waiting to happen. Not to mention that the internal foam is going to have broken down by now, so will also need replacing otherwise it will simply fill filters, injectors, etc. with debris.
On a positive note, a new tank now will be a plus point if/when you sell the car (assuming you were to sell it within the 5/7 year tank life).
wait cos is much more... that one is for t96 now b99
LOL01-99-9950-12001, LOLA - F3000 - 1999 - FUEL CELL
Around £5,232.44
try to check if are compatible...
almost 6K for a fuel cell, that is really out of proportion from my point of view, is almost a doble, ok this has a bit more tricky shape but...
Yes a new full reasling is what requires, I dunno what is the cost and if is possible of removing all current rubber and vulcanize again, but if that is feasable why not, it always be cheaper than a new one.
foam was completely falling apart with just touching it...
I have no plan to sell, and i do not compete thats why i do not really care about certification.
no compatible, and seems that simplify design will not help much in price as they have to do new rig for it...
If you don't plan to sell it or compete with it, why do you need a cell at all?
If you need just a fuel reservoir so the engine can be run, why not source a smaller, simpler and, possibly, off-the-shelf cell to perform that function?
Harmon or Eagle?
Those prices are plenty stout. Had hoped that Premier would be more in line.
I had Harmon do a cell, no can, to duplicate one in my RT5 last year. Think I spent around $1200 USD for full FIA cert. Had to send old one to him in Calif. and ship new one here, which cost extra. He did turn around in 2-3 mos, but we missed on a couple of items that probably didn't help on time.
Also, have use Eagle in past. They're up towards Chicago. Black rubber bladder, similar to yours... no certs. at that time.
Both these guys were nice to deal with. Think Richard at Premier (UK) would be similar...at least he struck me that way when we chatted at the PRI a few times...
do some more searching, probably will need to ship old one off for pattern, modify dims. a bit if want more clearance.... Think you should be able to improve on those quotes you got. Hope so.
Bob L.
Eagle Cells
When Eagle did my custom cell last year they said it was the last race car cell they would do, going just aircraft. Shame as always a great cell from them.
Don't know what the purpose of the car you have is but if you are going to run it at any kind of speed ask yourself. Compared to a proper safe cell cost, what is the value of the car and more importantly your health and life.
Sorry to hear that about Eagle. Another good source gone.... like losing Pat Prince...
Another supplier, I haven't used, is Pyrotect.
https://pyrotectstore.com/
As I recall they were partnered with or owned by Saldana. Saldana makes custom stuff (radiators, tanks, sprint car parts). A good outfit when I did the custom radiator on the Lotus 11 clone.
Also, RJS is another US supplier of cells. Seen mostly on circle track and drag cars....not sure about them doing custom work.
Happy hunting.
Bob L.
is track day car...
waiting email feedback from premier, I might call them tomorrow....
I finally found something in belgium ...
https://www.simtech.biz/products/fia...ved-fuel-tank/
I hope it not turn boring ...
for the moment i will try to avoid something out of EU or UK
See post #16
I read your post to quickly , i thought it was a ATL distributor in belgium... some hours of search would had save me ...lol
Do you know them ?
That Lola fuel cell is scrap
ATL UK have no interest these days making cells for club racer guys they have bigger customers F1 Military contracts to deal with better ££ orders and less agro.
I can supply you with a new fuel cell made to order expect to pay £2-2500 plus vat for one that size
Hello.
Do you have a fuel cell manufacture company ?
FIA certified ?
2-2.5K is what ATL is asking for T96...
I made simpler design to lower costs, i already send to simtech to get a quotation.
Btw one question...
I tough that there were 3 high pressure pumps at different height levels of the cell, but seems that is 2 on each side bottom that feeds the main pump channel that is sealed at the bottom. smart...
that means that i have to activate 3 pumps all time ?, how normally is this controlled ?
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