New Guy, New Way, New Thought, need your advice

[SuaveSwedeDub]

Good Evening Gentlemen and Ladies,

I am brand new to racing, brand new to Formula Vee, brand new to just about everything. But I have gotten bit by the VeeBug again, and decided this would be the best route to my envisioned goals.

Little about me. I am a disabled Marine Corps veteran. Bad back, bad shoulder, bad spine........*and que the SCREAMING, and exploding heads. Lol. Well, let me start by saying this, I am not a racer. I have accepted that my time doing things that "could" jar my back are limited for the rest of my life. Now with that said, I find joy in racing so I am going to get into it, and with my passion for VW's, what better way then Formula Vee. Sadly right now I am without a Dub, as a child my dad was a aircool restorer, and we restored, lol we, he I held a flashlight, four beetles, and a karmin ghia, he passed away before we could do a bus, but since I was 15 with my learner's permit I have had a couple my own VW's, a Mk2 8v's, a Mk3 TDI, a Mk4 Jetta, 82' Mk1 Caddy, and a Mk5 Rabbit. We almost got a Toureg but missed out and ended up with my wife's Santa Fe right now. But my love for VW is strong. At 17 I went into the Corps, went to Afghanistan in 2010, as a 19year old Corporal, got into a wreak in 2011 that gave me a torn rotator cuff in my left arm, left wrist fractured, right elbow fracture, t-10 to t-12 compressed into one mass, t12 vertebrae right wing fractured, that put me out of Active Duty, switched to the National Guard for 4 more years as my back slowly showed me who was really boss, and got out of the military in 2016. Since then have mainly been working in the Hotel industry in management and operations (resume answer), and got out of it this year because of the Pandemic. Well since the pandemic started, really got to do alot of self assessment and getting to spend more time with my family, and also getting to venture outside of my normal comfort zone, and with my wife's blessing, she has allowed me to explore a few new hobbies like drones, scooters, and adventures, but the most promising idea we have came up with involves Formula Vee.

So with that said, may I ask for 10 more mins of your time to break down an idea, and see if anyone would be interested in helping make it a reality. I'm trying to get as much input as possible to see how far it can go.

I would like to develop a new type of Racing Team. What our thoughts are is to create a travelling racing team. And some of you went, well that's nothing new, but here is where I want to dive into the deep end. To start I want to build three spec FV car's, and partner with as many track's, driver's, and leagues, to travel to as many tracks as possible with the team in the #1 car, but the #2, and #3 car be available for newbies, rentals, and tryout's for the #1 car team. The issue's I cannot find out to make this possible is, if any league would allow newbie drivers to race in rental's? Don't think so as long as the car is Spec. In my mind. Is there a league where we can travel to various track's, run heat's with the 3 car's. Is any of this even possible?

Now I know folk's may say, well if you throw enough money at anything you can make it happen. Well Im not a rich man, sometimes Im not even a stable man, but there is a reason I choose FV seeing race ready cars being sold for less then $7500 on the norm, tell's me that this is in the realm of a LLC and less then a $25k investment overall if it goes farther then one year as a test. If it worked out as well for the tracks, because for every race we come to, we would be bring three cars, not just the #1 car. A local racer in a different league could race, maybe even get some retired racers to come out and give it a whirl.

However, spitballing here, the idea is to presale shares into the investment. Tracktime and use of the #2 car at event's being the main selling point. So for a grand, if there were to be 25 races over the next year at different track, and 25 people signed up to race in the #2 car at those tracks, then 25 people get exposure to racing, etc, etc. Now putting it in words makes that look like crap, but that's not the ending. We could throw in schooling from a Coach, etc. So I guess I spitballing a left field idea here, but who know's maybe it could work. But allow's there to be the $25k budget, ofcourse this would provide maybe 2 cars operating a short field of events, but I'm new, researching and seeing if this can happen.

Would anyone want to partner with me in making this a reality and provide me advise on what I need to do?

Current Equipment List Needs
Dually Quad Cab Truck
Fifth Wheel Trailer capable of holding 3 FV cars, tools, tires, etc all inclusive, if possible, some form of crew quarters
3-Formula Vee Cars, and spare parts
Tools- Including, generator, compressor, lift, etc
Driver Equipment- Helmets, Suits, etc
Safety and Training Equipment- Maybe do a driving school at the track the day before or something.

[Purple Frog]

Thank you for your service!

I think you need to better understand the true costs of racing.

Start maybe by reading this thread:
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...highlight=cost

[Matt Clark]

The biggest issue is going to be the licensing for drivers. Road racing does not operate like oval tracks...you basically are not going to find any series that allows unlicensed racers on track. There are a couple routes to do that cheaper than a normal drivers school, especially if you don't mind traveling to Canada.

Cost is another issue you will need to understand more, and the Frog above links to a decent thread. FVs can be cheap to run, but people are sometimes shocked by the entry fees for road racing over ovals as well. Those can be anywhere from $375 to $500+. Track rentals are expensive for series, so that gets passed on to us.

I have a little bit of bias with this next part, but I think a series like Challenge Cup (mid-Atlantic) or DriverZ Cup (SouthEast) is where you would want to be. Those 2 series run spec street tires that are much cheaper, last much longer & are easier to race on than slicks. And at least in Challenge Cup, you get an absolute ton of track time on Pro weekends.
https://challengecupseries.com/
https://driverzcup.com/

I also don't think you will find any series that will give you the flexibility to do your own races like you want. However, running 25 minute sessions 2-3 times a day is possible on some race weekends, depending on the series. Your overall model doesn't seem completely unachievable, but it will need tweaking & such to be possible.

[S Lathrop]

I think that with a properly designed bead seat, and head restraint system, you can race FV safely. You will want to work with someone like Dr. Terry Trammel and someone who is experienced with building seats for Indy cars or similar race cars.

Hauling 3 FV's is not all that difficult. You could have a double deck trailer that carries 2 cars and use the trailer to load a third car in the bed of a pickup truck that hauls the lot. There was a team out of Colorado area, Vail, that carried one car on top of a Suburban and towed 2 more cars on a trailer. In short, with FVs you can haul a lot of cars with just a pickup truck.

I would suggest that you keep all the car eligible for SCCA FV racing. Then you can run all over the US and Canada.

Good luck with you ambition and business model.

[Jnovak]

A great concept but your plan and resultant budget will be way more than you estimate! I suggest that you consider something like Steve suggested to get you off the ground ! Your proposed tow rig would be more than double your estimated budget to get started

Good luck and thank you for your service!

[E1pix]

Color us EXTREMELY interested.

We’re heading offline for a week of backpacking so won’t be able to reply soon. But we’ve been considering Formula Vee for some time (newbies but with lots of kart championships) and searching for just such a creative idea. All ears when we are back to a signal...

We travel full-time, by the way, in my listed “location” at left.

Best of Luck and Goodonya for thinking out of the box.

[SuaveSwedeDub]

The biggest issue is going to be the licensing for drivers. Road racing does not operate like oval tracks...you basically are not going to find any series that allows unlicensed racers on track. There are a couple routes to do that cheaper than a normal drivers school, especially if you don't mind traveling to Canada.

Cost is another issue you will need to understand more, and the Frog above links to a decent thread. FVs can be cheap to run, but people are sometimes shocked by the entry fees for road racing over ovals as well. Those can be anywhere from $375 to $500+. Track rentals are expensive for series, so that gets passed on to us.

I have a little bit of bias with this next part, but I think a series like Challenge Cup (mid-Atlantic) or DriverZ Cup (SouthEast) is where you would want to be. Those 2 series run spec street tires that are much cheaper, last much longer & are easier to race on than slicks. And at least in Challenge Cup, you get an absolute ton of track time on Pro weekends.
https://challengecupseries.com/
https://driverzcup.com/

I also don't think you will find any series that will give you the flexibility to do your own races like you want. However, running 25 minute sessions 2-3 times a day is possible on some race weekends, depending on the series. Your overall model doesn't seem completely unachievable, but it will need tweaking & such to be possible.

1- Was trying to say renting to licensed driver's. Getting a day or two before each race to do a driver school to get folks licensed.
2- Cost, yeah I knew I was going to be WILDLY off with those estimates.
3- I am in the SouthEast so that could work. Raleigh NC area.

I think that with a properly designed bead seat, and head restraint system, you can race FV safely. You will want to work with someone like Dr. Terry Trammel and someone who is experienced with building seats for Indy cars or similar race cars.

Hauling 3 FV's is not all that difficult. You could have a double deck trailer that carries 2 cars and use the trailer to load a third car in the bed of a pickup truck that hauls the lot. There was a team out of Colorado area, Vail, that carried one car on top of a Suburban and towed 2 more cars on a trailer. In short, with FVs you can haul a lot of cars with just a pickup truck.

I would suggest that you keep all the car eligible for SCCA FV racing. Then you can run all over the US and Canada.

Good luck with you ambition and business model.

1- I would just not want the risk. I do like the thrill, yes I will probably get behind the wheel a time or two. But I would be worried about a mistake of any kind risking me the ability to function as I do now.
2- Look's like I would have no problem doing a good truck with a Garage/Camper and make this work. So my rig doesn't need to be so extravagant.
3- SCCA FV would be good, would that be the Spec Tire racing the previous gentleman spoke about.

A great concept but your plan and resultant budget will be way more than you estimate! I suggest that you consider something like Steve suggested to get you off the ground ! Your proposed tow rig would be more than double your estimated budget to get started

Good luck and thank you for your service!

Agreed, I will modify the equipment as we work on the details.

Color us EXTREMELY interested.

We’re heading offline for a week of backpacking so won’t be able to reply soon. But we’ve been considering Formula Vee for some time (newbies but with lots of kart championships) and searching for just such a creative idea. All ears when we are back to a signal...

We travel full-time, by the way, in my listed “location” at left.

Best of Luck and Goodonya for thinking out of the box.

Thank you for that, I am trying to be unique in some ways, and it appears reinventing the wheel in others.

Thank you for your service!

I think you need to better understand the true costs of racing.

Start maybe by reading this thread:
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...highlight=cost

Thank you for the show of support. |

Folks, what can I say. This is a community. R/S

[SuaveSwedeDub]

Well gentlemen, the more and more I talk to more FV guy's, the more it seem's that it's not the desire to race, but it's that there are so many different leagues, and such, that to utilize my idea would be very difficult outside selecting ONE specific league. Which currently I would lean into what the closest track to myself utilizes. However, a idea brewed and spawned another idea.

With me aiming for 3 car's, what if it was 4 car's (reality 6 or 8) and we ran heat bracket racing. You get licensed in the league, or you go through this racing school, then you can start attending the various FV events that sanction our licensing process. You can enter your own car, or utilize a track spec car.

That would be where we come in. Each heat would host 4 cars, we could provide all the car's, have a couple in reserve in case of break down etc.

With the original idea being a piggy back off my desire to build a race team around my wife as a racer, this would still work, she would just be a member of the "league" i guess, and then eventually she would have to branch off on her own team.

The simplicity of Formula Vee is a benefit as well. We could eventually build an entire fleet of FV Spec Track Cars that compete in its own special league, but accepts other spec FV cars aswell. Think a baseline model. Basic, Bare Boned, Beginner level.

So in the beginning we gather a hodge podge of 4 cars from various sources. Spec them all to run the same engine, transmission, suspension, etc. as much as possible. If complete rebuild would be required, or its just unfeasible then negate that decision. However, uniformity would be the desire. Trade, beg, buy, or tactically acquire.

We in essence would be creating an additional league. We could piggy back off another league perhaps and share tracks, or in reality we could give some business to struggling tracks across the nation, and entertainment to many. They may do the school and never race again, they may pick up the sport as a hobby, they may take off and become F1 driver's, but what if we provided an ability for everyone to get a taste of FV? Really a big enough parking lot would work, since SCCA does that sometimes too.

Okay, so idea's, possibilities now?

R/S

Franks

[Matt Clark]

You get licensed in the league, or you go through this racing school, then you can start attending the various FV events that sanction our licensing process.

I think you are starting to veer into an impossible realm here.... zero organizations are going to sanction your license process if it doesn't meet SCCA licensing... which means you use the SCCA license model.

So in the beginning we gather a hodge podge of 4 cars from various sources. Spec them all to run the same engine, transmission, suspension, etc. as much as possible.

I don't think you understand FV well enough yet. We already have the same spec stuff like that. You might be able to slightly limit things like shocks, but you aren't going to be doing as much as you think with your own specs. We already are the beginner level.




In all honesty, I would recommend just getting a car for now & running it as normal, until you learn the ins & outs of FVs & road racing in general. You aren't going to accomplish what you propose without an absolute ton of money to throw at it. Starting a series, even piggybacking, isn't going to happen for a new person. Even the parking lot idea is not going to work, unless you just do AutoX, because no one is going to let you race in a parking lot. And if the idea is to just AutoX.... well, that is already going on.

[problemchild]

There are many different ways to go racing, and many different ways to start.

I always suggest going to the racetrack and meeting the people involved. You will connect with some and not others. Those you connect with, will steer you where you need to go, and perhaps become life-long friends.

If you are interested in FV, I suggest you haul up I-77 and I-79 on October 16th, and spend the weekend at Pittsburgh International Race Complex. Formula Vee Challenge Cup is racing at that FRP event and you will meet several dozen FV racers. Mingle, observe, and take it all in. Keep in mind that often the most interesting and knowledgeable people work longest on their cars, and may have their "game faces" on, so pick your spots, and don't be shy about returning later if you don't initially get a warm welcome.

[SuaveSwedeDub]

Alright, alright, alright.

Let it be known without saying, I HAVE ZERO KNOWLEDGE. Aside from a passing glance.


Licensing: I would want to stick to SCCA ofcourse. Just throwing the idea of an added product into the mix.

I personally don't see this working unless its multi facet. Not going to make enough to operate the licensing school with just the rental's, and vice versa.

I will try to attend as many events as I can here in the short term.

Also looked at a Karting league close by to get my wife behind the wheel to compete in something and give here some experience.

R/S

Franks

[E1pix]

Per karting, please don’t let anyone convince her to start off in a shifter kart. Waaaaay more physical than a Vee, and significantly quicker.

A TaG setup would be easier... but still quite a bit quicker than a Vee. My last one had 34 bhp (about 10.6:1 power-to-weight at 363 lbs. with driver), was nearly ten seconds faster than Vees at an SCCA track in Colorado, and still *very* physical when driven hard.

The idea is to come to grips with a slower kart so the quicker ones can be driven well in much less overall time, while saving money to get there. Renting may well be cheaper if only wanted as a learning platform.

Comments, Mr. DeArman?

[SuaveSwedeDub]

Per karting, please don’t let anyone convince her to start off in a shifter kart. Waaaaay more physical than a Vee, and significantly quicker.

So a Vee is actually a good place to start a team, renting a Kart for her to dip her toes may be the best way to find out if she really wants this.

[Ian Lenhart]

Think outside the normal club racing weekend format. Maybe create a series that utilizes a variety of venues, Rent a kart track midweek for the day or 4 hours. Next event, rent or race at a short circle track with figure eight layout and use it as a chicane on the back straight. Maybe event 3 is an autocross and not wheel to wheel. Event 4 is a hill climb. How about a frozen lake that allows ice racing? Maybe a clay oval? Or if you are dead set on running at a full road racing facility, do a winter series in the northeast running Dec-Feb and get a plow service on standby or run snow tires or all season tires.

[E1pix]

So a Vee is actually a good place to start a team, renting a Kart for her to dip her toes may be the best way to find out if she really wants this.

If understanding you correctly, Yes — it is certainly possible that driving won’t at all be what she expects, and that’s something to determine before spending a bundle.

A good term to describe being on the limit is “physically violent.” Being five percent slower is easy by comparison, but it’s quite possible she won’t like driving regardless of speed. There’s but one way to know for sure.

So far as launching any team sans experience, I think you’ll need a very qualified person — and that won’t be cheap. If I were trying to do this, I’d start with running my own deal and build towards anything beyond that. I’ve never run cars but have been around this my entire life, and even figuring out the basics is a multi-year commitment. In my case, if indeed we do race in SCCA, I will need significant help as I’m one to do nothing short of what it takes to be competitive.

To throw out a quip, I’ve often countered comments like “a bad day at the race track beats a good day at work” with “Brother, you must really hate your job.”

[pacratt]

To throw out a quip, I’ve often countered comments like “a bad day at the race track beats a good day at work” with “Brother, you must really hate your job.”

And "The best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a BIG fortune."

[SuaveSwedeDub]

Think outside the normal club racing weekend format. Maybe create a series that utilizes a variety of venues, Rent a kart track midweek for the day or 4 hours. Next event, rent or race at a short circle track with figure eight layout and use it as a chicane on the back straight. Maybe event 3 is an autocross and not wheel to wheel. Event 4 is a hill climb. How about a frozen lake that allows ice racing? Maybe a clay oval? Or if you are dead set on running at a full road racing facility, do a winter series in the northeast running Dec-Feb and get a plow service on standby or run snow tires or all season tires.

This was the original idea, rent out random tracks around the nation broadcasting formula vee, but then ran into the SCCA thing. Like literally NOBODY will provide insurance outside of a self owned track, and they were the ones that usually insure the gocart tracks, not auto car racing tracks, and they were only willing to actually go into it further if I came back to them with everything approved (financing, ownership, etc), but I was told that the go cart tracks pay in the 1-2k a month in insurance to operate. I would imagine a FV would be double that easily. But that was also because of operating hours, etc. Go-kart tracks are actually the closest thing to what we envisioned. School, rentals, racing, broadcasting.

Now this lead us down the path of looking into abandoned or local tracks with the idea to partner with them to do a round robin series, but then that lead to the location issue. Not many states host ALOT of Formula Vee guys, so the idea of being in a centralized location limits the teams on the opposite side of the country from participating. Some folks can only race at their local track, and race maybe 2-3 times a year and I am finding out that this is pretty common.

So we dabbled our pinkies into FV, FSV, F1st, and FF, and determined that currently FSV is truly the only way we could make this work. Seeing how running in FV requires 1200cc, and those are no longer produced, and the stock is drying up, its going to become more and more difficult to remain in FV for long term. So 1600cc engines in the Formula Super Vee class is where we have landed as far as class and we can solidify our parts choices and vendors, try to line up partnerships with sponsors etc, all the marketing aspects of bringing something remotely close to its own team, series, or school.

So much of the knowledge I have had shared with me so far is, well it is overwhelming, but Im enjoying it. Your winter series looked promising as well since we did want to do the school year round. Apparently there is a way we can turn the school into a legitimate education platform rather then a licensing mule. We're looking into that. The idea is that it lines up with something similar to NASCAR and some of the pipelines it has built with education programs. Teach certification levels into the Formula family. Have it be a simple breakdown school to start with, and build it up as we learn whats best for the students going through. But currently, yeah, licensing mule is still the starting point.

Travelling Team/Rental- 4 cars and a pickuptruck.
Travelling Licensing Mule/Own Series- 6-8 cars, 2 pickups
Stationary School- 8-12 school cars, 4 team cars, 1 team pickup, 1 school pickup. and a whole lot more.

[SuaveSwedeDub]

And "The best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a BIG fortune."

What if we went non profit? Non profits can't themselves make money, that doesn't mean the team members, drivers, coaches, teachers, etc, cannot be paid, it means it cannot be for profit of shareholders, or a single owner entity. Reinvest, turn over profits to a charity. Build the school into something better then what we currently have? I don't know. I'm not driven by money, foolishly at some times, I just like bringing like minded folks into something.

[SuaveSwedeDub]

So far as launching any team sans experience, I think you’ll need a very qualified person — and that won’t be cheap. If I were trying to do this, I’d start with running my own deal and build towards anything beyond that. I’ve never run cars but have been around this my entire life, and even figuring out the basics is a multi-year commitment. In my case, if indeed we do race in SCCA, I will need significant help as I’m one to do nothing short of what it takes to be competitive.

To throw out a quip, I’ve often countered comments like “a bad day at the race track beats a good day at work” with “Brother, you must really hate your job.”

The wife will be getting behind the wheel of a Kart here in the near future (this month hopefully). Then she'll figure out if that is something she wants in her life. If she comes out saying "ehh, it was fun" instead of "woah that was exilirating I can't wait to do it again, I want my car to be pink by the way." then I'll be able to gauge her reaction and maybe she will spin or get spun, bounce a little, feel what rubbing feels like, and go from there.

With the team, I already know Im at the minimum going to have to find a technical advisor/chief operations officer to get through the initial standup period. Thing is though, is that other organizations already have alot of what we want to do either already done, or being done. So I feel if we went non profit, and really focused on developing the next generation of drivers, because lets face it, driving licenses are going to be a thing of the past in about a decade. You will uber via App with driverless cars. And racing is going to be the only real driving left. So I figure we start small, AIM HIGH, and I mean in the clouds, and if we land at the top of a small hill, we accomplished something, learned something, or just out right failed, But what if, hypothetically, the President of Formula 1 says "hey I will volunteer my time as your non paid technical advisor to make this a success" and the WRC head of mechanics says "hey I happen to race FV on the weekends, I'll help you stand up the school on the mechanic side since we kinda already have that", and so on and so forth. All you gotta do is ask. Get one or two big names to tell their connections and low and behold we have a real racing school. Never know, but I'd rather aim high and miss, then aim low and never know how far I could have gone. So I know alot of folks are saying "start with a team of your own", I know that will already happen, if not FSV with my wife as the driver, maybe I'll make a friend try the driving out myself, take up the helm, and in 10 years when my son turns 16, he can take over behind the wheel. By then, thats the only way he's going to drive in real life. So were going to continue to see safety improvements, and advancement, eventually our combustion engines will be phased out for EV, and thats okay, but Formula Super Vee is honestly going to be the last to shut down, it would legit be the OG "vintage" series. So EV's go ripping up LeMans, and then the FSV's come out, and people can actually go "see" them race instead of the EV's going so fast no one will know in face view whose who cause EV's are going to get wicked fast.

[Purple Frog]

Not trying to rain on your parade, but FSV engines are very very fragile. Not exactly a good "school" engine. Maybe 20 hors between rebuilds. There is a reason FSV is no longer an active class. Just saying.

I spent 7 years working for an independent series as you propose. I think you would be shocked by the costs of renting tracks that an insurance company will cover, corner workers, EMTs, timing people, etc. etc. Even if they volunteer their time, their travel and lodging expenses will be huge.

It takes about 30+ paying entries to cover the nut of about 2 hours of track time per day, if you can find another group to buy the rest of the time each day.

As always... YMMV

[SuaveSwedeDub]

Not trying to rain on your parade, but FSV engines are very very fragile. Not exactly a good "school" engine. Maybe 20 hors between rebuilds. There is a reason FSV is no longer an active class. Just saying.

I spent 7 years working for an independent series as you propose. I think you would be shocked by the costs of renting tracks that an insurance company will cover, corner workers, EMTs, timing people, etc. etc. Even if they volunteer their time, their travel and lodging expenses will be huge.

It takes about 30+ paying entries to cover the nut of about 2 hours of track time per day, if you can find another group to buy the rest of the time each day.

As always... YMMV

Agreed 100%, this is why I was more envisioning joining the series as an add-on instead of a stand alone. But who knows, I dream a lot. 20 hours between rebuilds provides the ability to teach engine rebuilding.

Someone has said that the GM350 or Ford302 has a better chance then the VW 1600cc to become the vintage engine. I disagree with that for road racing, I'd see the Nascar and oval tracks going to 350 or 302 only, but I dont' see them being the all encompassing engine. Either way the 1600 is an amazing engine to learn on.

[Dennis McCarthy]

Agreed 100%, this is why I was more envisioning joining the series as an add-on instead of a stand alone. But who knows, I dream a lot. 20 hours between rebuilds provides the ability to teach engine rebuilding.

Someone has said that the GM350 or Ford302 has a better chance then the VW 1600cc to become the vintage engine. I disagree with that for road racing, I'd see the Nascar and oval tracks going to 350 or 302 only, but I dont' see them being the all encompassing engine. Either way the 1600 is an amazing engine to learn on.

I don’t know why you’d believe that there are too many existing “leagues” to race FV in there is really only one national sanctioning body that allows for racing at various levels of competition. SCCA provides everything from entry level experiences for newbies to serious competition for very experienced racers with very well prepared cars.

It is true you can buy a FV for $7500 which is the way to go for starting out but it won’t anywhere near a nationally competitive car at at that price point.

Go buy one car or even better simply crew for an existing FV team for a season and you’ll learn enough about the sport to make educated decisions about what you really want to do.

Good luck and welcome!

[E1pix]

^^^ This.

I fully believe that in all types of racing, you can be the guy that spends a ton learning from scratch the hard way — to even have a chance at running with the fast guys — or learn from their mistakes by aligning with them first. You don’t want to be the former.

I *love* Formula Super Vee and have/had four longtime friends who won pro titles in it (sadly only one is still alive, and if I could find his Lola T324 I’d/he’d love to have it). But I’m sure you know it’s long been only a vintage class, any fleet you might build wouldn’t be competitive or of similar vintage with each other (Renter: “I want that quickest car!!!”) and sans this year’s now-lost participation potential in being the Golden anniversary, the class is really struggling compared to vintage FF or FV. The motors are hand-grenades compared to Vees (150 hp compared to 60) and demanding a lot more cash and crew.

People to race against is key to attracting people wanting to race.

As stated earlier, I really admire your thinking out of the box, but I strongly feel your success in this rests in an avidly-supported, existing series — with no added burdens of even thinking about reinventing any wheels (a new series). If that’s current FV — and I don’t by any means think it’s an imminently-dying class for lack of engine blocks — there’s the options others mentioned.

If wanting FV in vintage, I do somewhat know a guy in Colorado running several vintage Vees, some for rent, and I can say they’re a really happy group enjoying the races. Demands on you in vintage — or SCCA Regionals — would be *much easier* than running people like I’d be who want to spend more but also require really seasoned car prep at SCCA Majors or FRP.

Regardless, repeating that your hiring even one experienced prep guy wouldn’t be cheap, but in the long run would be for customer satisfaction. I’m not that guy by any stretch, but finding that person means going to races and melding with as many people as possible.


Hope this helps, you have a lot of boats to jump into and send my Best Wishes.

Nothing’s impossible but the straighter path is almost always better and cheaper.

[S Lathrop]

I will add another negative to your plans. As a manufacturer I see nothing but a enormous head ache if I were to run a production of say 10 FVs. Getting the FV parts that will stand up to a race car application is more than I care to think about. You would wind up making a lot of the parts that in years past you could have easily gotten from a salvage yard. Finding 10 transmissions that would be good candidates to rebuild or finding the best gear sets for those 10 transmissions would be a year long job. Yes there are a lot of aftermarket part for VWs but almost all are not usable for a competition car.

I still think that for an entry level formula car class, FV is by far and away the very best class to start a racing career. The skill set that FV teaches, no other class matches and those skills carry over to faster cars perfectly. Compared to the selection of spec cars, FV way out paces those cars as a learning platform. I base that opinion on 52 years in this sport.

[SuaveSwedeDub]

To everyone, thank you, positives, negatives, it is all needed. Alot to process and reconsider.

I think I miss spoke on SCCA, we're not trying to be a standalone or restart of them. Finding a league within them that we can operate within would be the goal.

On the note of renting the quickest car. That is a tough one there, the goal would be to teach the fundamentals, and the beginners getting get their feet wet, the guy's who's own vee just grenaded on him, but he drove 750 miles to race and now his weekend is cut short, or the newbie who just got his license, and went through the program and now there's another car on the track. These car's may not win nationals, but they will be hopefully the baseline of competitive. So I don't know if i'd be promising "winners" for rent.

On crewing for another team, with my back and disabilities, I'm pretty slow and useless, I know this, but I manage to get by appearing to be normal. But one of these days im going to lose my back picking up my son, so I wouldn't be much for a team, and I can't myself much afford to travel on someone elses schedule.

[Dennis McCarthy]

To everyone, thank you, positives, negatives, it is all needed. Alot to process and reconsider.

I think I miss spoke on SCCA, we're not trying to be a standalone or restart of them. Finding a league within them that we can operate within would be the goal.

On the note of renting the quickest car. That is a tough one there, the goal would be to teach the fundamentals, and the beginners getting get their feet wet, the guy's who's own vee just grenaded on him, but he drove 750 miles to race and now his weekend is cut short, or the newbie who just got his license, and went through the program and now there's another car on the track. These car's may not win nationals, but they will be hopefully the baseline of competitive. So I don't know if i'd be promising "winners" for rent.

On crewing for another team, with my back and disabilities, I'm pretty slow and useless, I know this, but I manage to get by appearing to be normal. But one of these days im going to lose my back picking up my son, so I wouldn't be much for a team, and I can't myself much afford to travel on someone elses schedule.

You should chat with Dave Scaler at Advantage Motorsports in NJ. Dave was one of the original racing data system constructors and a
long time FV racer. He has a prep shop and rents FVees, he is a good source of information....

[SuaveSwedeDub]

Just going to bump this to the top. Seen some folks putting out some feelers. See if this idea can mature into anything. HAHAHA.

[Matt Clark]

Just going to bump this to the top. Seen some folks putting out some feelers. See if this idea can mature into anything. HAHAHA.

I don't see your main vision panning out at all... but in the past months since this discussion, DriverZ Cup down your region has blown up rather impressively. I would suggest re-aligning your goals to getting a car & trying a season just running in their championship. I do not see anyone joining a series created by someone without any experience... so aligning under existing (successful) groups is really your only path.