F500 Propensity To Snap Spin?

[Tom Grossmann]

This is more of a curiosity question and could be my bias / preference of a car set up on the loose side. I noticed on my 87 Novakar and my friend's 05 Novakar that once you go past 120 degrees of opposite lock on the wheel you're not going to catch the car.

The set up I use for autocross is very near steady state oversteer. I've noticed when other people drive the car (2 karters & 1 drifter) they seem to snap spin the car. Now my car is a 73" wheel base car so that is a factor but my friend's 05 seemed to behave similarly.

I have to use autocross as my example as I've only driven the car on a road course when the temp was 47F so I wasn't able to really make any conclusions about the handling.

Again this is just a curiosity thing........ Note I'm a bit bored today.

[GBugg]

Interesting... My 2005 Novakar (Rakavon) had a ton of understeer when I got it. I couldn’t get the back end to come around at all. The guys at Mitchell Racing Service worked on it for me and it has been perfectly balanced since then. I can pitch it into a corner and easily catch it if it breaks loose.

[Jnovak]

The Novakars can be very balanced if properly setup. 4 runoffs wins and 5 solo championshps is not an accident imo but yes they can be very pushey if not setup properly.

[Tom Grossmann]

Jay for road course work I've set the car up using the Larry Dupois notes that came with the car and from what I could tell the car was pretty neutral. Again it was really cold so it was hard to get any meaningful information.

When I first got the car I left the set up alone and the car did have horrendous understeer. The most significant change, beyond the wide front tires, was the toe and running a lot of rake. Those two things made the car much better for autocross.

This was just a curiosity and I assumed down to set up and unfamiliarity with the car.

[sathorp]

4 runoffs wins.

F500 Novakar/Nova Blade Runoffs Winners

2007 – Brian Novak
2014 – Brian Novak
2015 – Calvin Stewart

Who’s the 4^th F500 Novakar/Nova Blade Runoffs Winner?

[TDI PILOT]

The cars most likely have too much torque on the suspension rockers. Too much dampening. The lower the dampening the greater the "advanced notice" you will have of an impending spin. Of course with too little dampening, the car will bounce like a pogo stick through the corners and never take a set.

[Jnovak]

The cars most likely have too much torque on the suspension rockers. Too much dampening. The lower the dampening the greater the "advanced notice" you will have of an impending spin. Of course with too little dampening, the car will bounce like a pogo stick through the corners and never take a set.

When the setup is right they will handle as good as as anything else that has very little Df!
They are also sensitive to tire temps and tire compound.

[Tom Grossmann]

Eric when you say to little torque on the rockers, to clarify, do you mean the torque setting on the fastener (friction damper) or are we talking pull / push rod position on the rocker?

I may be guilty of this, as I reduced the damping (or is that dampening) on the front while experimenting with the changes to see how they worked, I found a setting that seemed to work for me and left it there.

Note I prefer as soft a set as one can get away with on a car with no downforce, while you give up some of the instantaneous feedback it does build grip.

[TDI PILOT]

Hope this helps

[Tom Grossmann]

Thanks. That is what I thought you meant seeing as our car have friction dampers.

[g4c123]

This is more of a curiosity question and could be my bias / preference of a car set up on the loose side. I noticed on my 87 Novakar and my friend's 05 Novakar that once you go past 120 degrees of opposite lock on the wheel you're not going to catch the car.

The set up I use for autocross is very near steady state oversteer. I've noticed when other people drive the car (2 karters & 1 drifter) they seem to snap spin the car. Now my car is a 73" wheel base car so that is a factor but my friend's 05 seemed to behave similarly.

I have to use autocross as my example as I've only driven the car on a road course when the temp was 47F so I wasn't able to really make any conclusions about the handling.

Again this is just a curiosity thing........ Note I'm a bit bored today.

I spent a lot of time racing and sorting out a Zink Z19 in the early 90s as well as doing the final test driving and tuning of the 80" wheelbase Dolphin F440s Built by Pete Elder. The Zink was a 73" wheelbase car and yes the short wheelbase car is far less forgiving and will snap spin quicker . The 1st time I drove an 80" car I quickly realized I had to have one. It was so much more fun and easier to drive. Especially for someone who likes to wag the tail now and then. As for you, Are the rubber suspension pucks in great shape? If not, get new ones and if you have any adjustments on the rear susp to soften it up, do so. Don't forget tire pressure is also a way to tune it. As for tightening the dampers, just setting it and forgeting it won't work. They need to be readjusted constantly as a 1/2 hour of track time will change their characteristics. Good luck!

[Tom Grossmann]

Since I originally posted this thread I've vintage raced the car and went with the previous car owners set up which, for me, is pretty conservative. The car was nowhere near as edgy as my Autocross set up.

For anyone familiar with Buttonwillow; I went up and over Phil Hill on opposite lock and didn't come close to spinning the car........not that I did it on purpose.

The only moment I had the whole weekend was when I attempted to turn into Riverside corner flat, the car took a split second longer than normal to take a set and for a brief instant the all four tires lost traction. Basically I four wheel drifted the car for about 30-40ft on the corner entrance. It was predictable enough that knew I'd exceeded the limit the instant I did it. The car also gave enough feedback that I knew not to try it again.