June Sprints F500

[cory mcleod]

I just read the June Sprints click-through from the Kerrie Speed e-mail and it was great to see F500 listed on the short list of classes with 15 or more entries. This is on the heels of F500 being the largest formula car class at the St. Louis Super Tour. Let's keep the momentum going! Get out your cars and race if you can this year. Make the most of the freedom we have back as the virus panic lockdowns are lifted. I know there are still many F500s in garages in the Midwest US, so let's make use of the revised qualification requirements and shoot for 20+ cars at the Runoffs.

Cory

[cory mcleod]

Congratulations to the June Sprints winners!

Saturday
1 - Aaron Ellis
2 - James Weida
3 - Eric McRee

Sunday
1 - Eric McRee
2 - Calvin Stewart
3 - James Weida

The Wisconsin weather was perfect all weekend and 14 F500s took the green flag both days. It was great to see everyone, including former F500 competitors Rock Irving, Bob Giesen and Kris Larsen. With over 50 cars on track between 3 classes, some of the F500s got bitten by aggressive FVs (Rick Escola) and some got bitten by Road America's challenging turns (me), but it was a great showing for F500.

Cory

[Daryl DeArman]

With over 50 cars on track between 3 classes, some of the F500s got bitten by aggressive FVs (Rick Escola)

Did he get bit while lapping the FV leaders? Getting around the rear half of the FV's should be as simple as shooting fish in a barrel. I can't imagine a circumstance where a F5 finds themselves mixing it up with a FV for any longer than a nanosecond or two.

[mmi16]

Did he get bit while lapping the FV leaders? Getting around the rear half of the FV's should be as simple as shooting fish in a barrel. I can't imagine a circumstance where a F5 finds themselves mixing it up with a FV for any longer than a nanosecond or two.

nanoseconds can be deadly

[B Farnham]

Did he get bit while lapping the FV leaders? Getting around the rear half of the FV's should be as simple as shooting fish in a barrel. I can't imagine a circumstance where a F5 finds themselves mixing it up with a FV for any longer than a nanosecond or two.

Yes a lone F5 was blocked on the straight away by a gagle of 6 FVs. I dont know if the intention was to race with a lower class but all that would have been accomplished was splitting up the lead FV group.

The next nearest F5 was almost a minute up the road from that car, so again why ruin someone's race by passing on the straight and throwing the anchor out in the next corner?

Brian

[fv9]

Yes a lone F5 was blocked on the straight away by a gagle of 6 FVs. I dont know if the intention was to race with a lower class but all that would have been accomplished was splitting up the lead FV group.

The next nearest F5 was almost a minute up the road from that car, so again why ruin someone's race by passing on the straight and throwing the anchor out in the next corner?

Brian

Excellent point, Brian. And one we as FV drivers have been pleading for decades. I have no problem with cars in other classes who are racing doing what they have to to get through a pack of us, but nothing is more infuriating than getting broken off the pack by a lone car from another class. We all need to respect each other’s races.

[Daryl DeArman]

I have no problem with cars in other classes who are racing doing what they have to to get through a pack of us, but nothing is more infuriating than getting broken off the pack by a lone car from another class. We all need to respect each other’s races.

Yes. Some (too many?) folks subscribe to the race whoever is on the track with them, regardless of class mantra. Maybe that's the result of being accustomed to racing in groups of 10 cars, representing 6 different classes all spread out over a 2+ mile track. . . they're just thrilled to have somebody to race with.

A car 20+ seconds per lap slower than the class leader probably thrilled to have somebody to race with.

[GBugg]

This was my first time at The Sprints and first trip to Road America. What a fantastic experience! The weather was perfect. The crowds were great. And the racing was amazing! The fast guys are FAST! And the rest of us played nicely and raced hard. I managed 4th on Saturday and had a great race with Jason Martin and Steve Jondal on Sunday until my shift cable broke.

Big thanks to Mitchell Racing for the much needed help and the the whole team for a great weekend!

[cory mcleod]

Excellent point, Brian. And one we as FV drivers have been pleading for decades. I have no problem with cars in other classes who are racing doing what they have to to get through a pack of us, but nothing is more infuriating than getting broken off the pack by a lone car from another class. We all need to respect each other’s races.

There is NEVER a legitimate reason to punt another car off the track on the front straight at Road America. Reckless and dangerous.

[problemchild]

There is NEVER a legitimate reason to punt another car off the track on the front straight at Road America. Reckless and dangerous.

I was staying out of this as there is no solution, certainly after the fact, but when a car in one class is 20 seconds per lap slower than other cars in his class, and spends 13 laps racing in the middle of a dozen cars racing for the lead in that other class, then most would conclude who is being disrespectful (polite version) ..... but thank you Cory for telling us who that was. He was also a contributing factor in the FF leaders incident that left Tim crashed.

And I am confused how a much slower car would punt the faster car on a straightaway.

My driver appreciated that the lead F500 driver seemed to slow on the last lap of Saturday's race to let him race. I would have preferred if my other driver had done that for a FV on Sunday, but my radio was not working to make that request. The good news was that he also passed Mr Escola and let the lead FVs finish without him.

I do agree that it was a good racing by the F500 group. All 3 classes put on a fine show both days.

[cory mcleod]

Thanks Greg. I agree that the weekend was great and all 3 classes played well together. I did not intend for this thread to go in this direction - probably should have left out the FV comment in my original post. I was not the driver who got punted but got his first-hand account. There are always two sides to every story so I also won't post his account of the incident.

Cory

[B Farnham]

There is NEVER a legitimate reason to punt another car off the track on the front straight at Road America. Reckless and dangerous.

I wasn't aware that he was ever punted but if you go and watch the video posted in the FV section you'd wonder why someone in another class would interject themselves into that battle. There were 10-15 passes a lap in the lead FV group. Im sure he went by someone and basically stopped in the corner, at that point how could you not expect to get punted? Regardless he had no business being around us.

I broke on the pace lap on Saturday but witnessed a black/red F6 block the lead two FV's from Canada to 14 only to pull into the pits. He erased a 3-4 car length lead being completely oblivious to what was behind him.

I wasn't going to make a separate post on Apex for what happened but when you called out the FV guys it deserved a response.

Brian

[Rick Eskola]

I want to start out by saying, my apologies to the lead FV drivers. I had no intentions of messing up your race. This was the first race for me and this car, and I was fighting issues all weekend. I missed the first practice session, but had the car ready for 25 min. qualifier. Ran a 2.37 but was disallowed due to being 3 lbs. under weight. It was my choice to get weighed. I had engine issues in Saturday mornings qualifier which I only got 2 laps. I was over the 115% rule. I was allowed to start the race, car ran fine, but had brake issues. and pulled off.
Sunday morning we bled the brakes and went out for warm ups. Car felt ok. Got permission to start the race.
My first lap I could feel the motor was not 100%, tried to keep ahead of the Vees and knew I couldn't and let the lead pack go by me down the front straight. I settled in behind them 4 or 5 car lengths behind for the rest of the race. I was not in the middle of their race.
I knew the FF's were going to be coming to lap us, and I pointed them by and watched the Kautz car get air borne as he tried to get by the front running Vee"s, I was no where near that.
In closing, with all the problems that I had this past weekend, I just wanted to finish the race.

Thanks

Rick

[E1pix]

I’m not racing (yet) but that’s a class post, Rick.

Best in your future races.

(wife’s family’s from Big St. Germain, by the way)

[mmi16]

Never overlook the ability of a pack that is racing among themselves to become 'target fixated' upon each other and to not see another competitor that they are overtaking - especially the members of the pack that aren't in the lead of the pack.

[problemchild]

Never overlook the ability of a pack that is racing among themselves to become 'target fixated' upon each other and to not see another competitor that they are overtaking - especially the members of the pack that aren't in the lead of the pack.

While Mr Eskola is saying the right things now, he did an absolute horrible job of managing his problems, and ruining a lot of other people's races. While he says he was no where near the FF incident. He literally stopped in corner 6, and trapped the 2nd place FF behind him, delaying that driver about 3 seconds, and one position. That frustrated driver then made a mistake in the next corner and crashed, hitting one other car, and narrowly missing 3 others, all of whom were racing for the win in their class. Mr Eskola did not cause that incident, but he definitely contributed to it. Considering that just starting one race satisfied the Runoff eligibility, there is no reason for him to be a rolling chicane, finishing 2 laps down, in the middle of 3 good races. A half-assed apology, after the fact, is not classy. If you want to be classy, park your car until it can be raced competitively and safely.

[E1pix]

I almost bought a FV last year; to finally get to race after a lifetime of waiting, and only possible by living without for fifteen years after a medical catastrophe.

As only the seller of that car knows, I signed on here to get a general sense of the value of my investment — both in terms of what drivers thought of SCCA’s future, and what I thought of who I’d surround myself with. In karting I made friends with everyone, as I had in SCCA and beyond while working in several professional capacities (all the way up to IndyCar, and reluctantly passing on an offer to be Toleman’s sign man in 1984).

After reading a lot here, I was so bewildered by the attitudes of many who’ve been fortunate enough to live their dreams that I called the seller and bailed out. That wasn’t easy. It was actually embarrassing as we’d become new friends with he and his family.

I’ve second-guessed that decision ever since, mostly as it’s hard if not silly to let others guide one’s decisions — but I this case the decision to compete is expensive, and we want to trade money for fun and new experiences.

It took balls to make the post I commented on. We all start somewhere, and we all make mistakes along the way. Are we really so perfect that an apology isn’t enough?

You’ve well illustrated what class is, and isn’t. I’m sure you think you’ve earned the right to treat newcomers like this. Shamefully arrogant. I am right back to letting the dream go, there’s no way in hell I’d want to be in the “offender’s” shoes right now, and sure wouldn’t swap retirement to be there.

Perhaps I should say “Thanks” for saving us a ton of money.

[Tom Grossmann]

If it is your dream to go racing, don't let folks on a forum stop you. Racers are good people, as with all forums people sometimes get heated and/or what they type comes off that way. Additionally I find the people on Apexspeed (like most race forums) to be very helpful. Most of us will loan tools, parts and help you fix your car. We want to beat you on track and then have a laugh when we've inadvertently made your car faster and we get beat by you. Few sports offer this.

I've been on both ends of the equation; a mobile chicane and trying to sort my way past a back marker without losing time. Neither side gets a thrill from this, one has to accept that this too is part of racing.

[E1pix]

I appreciate that, Tom and certainly don’t mean to insult racers in general — but did and do find that post way over the top in following an apology from a sincere newbie.

What I found interesting was when working with pro teams, I saw very little of this. People seemed to realize their good fortunes and had very little attitude about their stature.

I do realize there’s good and bad with everything — including people. Many here have been great, so I accept part of my attitude is mine to bear. I vividly recall the way SCCA Club racers were in the past, and things really have changed — and not for the better.

I find the vintage crowd to be more like back then, and may well go that route. We’d likely do FF if we went there, mostly as there’s some real racing in that class and that’s what we want. We’d love to go Super Vee, if there were far more cars. We have an offer to kart again, with full backing, but we’ve done that and our heart still beats at places like Roads America and Atlanta, Mid-Ohio, the Glen, etc.

Thank You.

[Daryl DeArman]

It took balls to make the post I commented on. We all start somewhere, and we all make mistakes along the way. Are we really so perfect that an apology isn’t enough?

FWIW I don't believe Eskola is new to racing with the SCCA. I believe raced some 20+ years ago.

I believe it was his first race in this particular car.

[mmi16]

FWIW I don't believe Eskola is new to racing with the SCCA. I believe raced some 20+ years ago.

I believe it was his first race in this particular car.

No matter how much all parties involved wish for the 'back marker' to disappear (including the back marker) - that is not a condition that is supported by physics.

All people on track have paid the entry fee for their track time, ALL OF THEM.

[Daryl DeArman]

All people on track have paid the entry fee for their track time, ALL OF THEM.

Paying an entry fee doesn't guarantee you any track time, nor does it absolve you from any behavior you may exhibit while on track. There are valid reasons for the 115% rule. I understand there is discretion that the race director can exercise. In hindsight, I'm guessing he thinks he got this one wrong.


Fastest lap is still 4 seconds slower than 115% rule. Had zero business mixing it up in any way with any other class.

[Tom Grossmann]

@E1pix I'm currently running vintage I switched over about 10 years ago. We get people who are way to serious at local autocross it happens, find a class or group you like and go for it.

[FVRacer21]

One problem is that the FF are 20 seconds faster than the FV at RA.

At RA that means only lapping them once - but with split starts that could be twice - what happens when 6 FF racing come up on 6 FV racing? Who screws up whose race?

thankfully Lime Rock does not have a Majors as us FV guys just drive around with our hands pointing drivers by......

also

If you are going to enforce the 115 % rule it should be, sorry - go home and here is some (most) of your money back. But we know the regions will not do that so the incentive is to plow on and hope for better things.

This is a freak year and having the 2nd biggest weekend of the year the first race back was probably not the best choice.

last - if I got held up by a backmarker - got by and then crashed on my own - it is MY fault.

ChrisZ

[Daryl DeArman]

One problem is that the FF are 20 seconds faster than the FV at RA.

At RA that means only lapping them once - but with split starts that could be twice - what happens when 6 FF racing come up on 6 FV racing? Who screws up whose race?

Hopefully neither.

I raced FV and FF both, from both perspectives it's very easy to not interfere with each others' battles, there's such a huge performance delta it should rarely be difficult.

In the rare event that a gaggle of tightly spaced FF's encounter a tightly spaced gaggle of FV's, hopefully both groups have been alert to the development as the laps go on and can anticipate where they are likely to get caught/catch and plan accordingly.

Whether the passee or the passer I always wanted the lead car to hold their line and let the overtaking car find its way through.

In my experience the issue is when a faster car makes a last second pass in the braking zone and pulls immediately on line in front of the FV they just passed and then stands on the brakes. The FV can not stop anywhere near as quickly even though their corners speeds are more similar.

[Daryl DeArman]

If you are going to enforce the 115 % rule it should be, sorry - go home

Fixed that for ya.

The alternative is allow them to race but black flag them before they get lapped (if there were such a rule to allow that).

last - if I got held up by a backmarker - got by and then crashed on my own - it is MY fault.

Agreed. Key point being if it was on your own.

[924RACR]

@E1pix: if you seriously want to get into racing, let alone open wheel, you're going to need to exhibit a lot more internal compass and care a good bit less about how others feel if you want to survive. Not to make you think it's cutthroat; most of your fellow drivers will have your back and do everything within their means to help you out, whether it's driving advice or help wrenching or finding parts. But you will never make everyone happy, unless you're willing to circulate right behind them and play camera car - which is never what anyone gets into racing to do.

Follow your dreams, if you think you have the conviction.

But the others here are entirely right about the lack of enforcement of the 115% rule. It's one of the bigger, unmentioned problems in Club Racing today IMO. Regions are too desperate for the cash to apply the necessary restriction.

I very much like the "run until we need to black flag you" concept - especially for the Runoffs.

Note, E1pix, that the Sprints are not just another race. They're virtually the Runoffs in themselves; almost 500 entries for this weekend, which is more than many years of the Runoffs. This isn't the place to bring less than a serious effort - which is why I left my already well-developed but not quite competitive racecar at home, and crewed/coached/engineered for a friend in FV. Others ought to have done the same.

[Farrout48]

In the Regional races in the Southeast, the Wings n Things get to run all together (if the car counts are low) or in 2 separate groups (if the car counts are sufficient to warrant both groups). Running in one group, you have everything from FA/P1 to FV. Yes, there is a large speed and lap time differential. There will be a lot of lapping over the course of a 20-40 minute race. Even in 2 groups, the second group usually consists of FC, FF, F5, FV and any Club/Vintage versions. Again there will be lapping and speed differentials. But usually, the groups are small with 15-18 cars per group which lessens the potential problems of co-habitation somewhat. Most of us are very good at keeping out of others races, lapping others safely, watching for passing flags and checking mirrors. An FA coming up at speed can hardly be seen in your mirrors and only if you happen to check at the exact right moment.

In these sorts of Regional groupings, what does a 115% rule really mean? Clearly in the Sprints, RunOffs and most Majors, it has some value since the classes are not usually so mixed. In the mixed groups, how many cars/classes are within 115% of the FA/P1 or even the FC to FV? IMHO, the rule has little to no value in most Regional races for the Wings n Things.

None of the above excuses the poor driving habits that we all have experienced. The drivers who interfere with other classes' racing. The drivers who refuse to watch their mirrors and ignore flags. The drivers who chop down on others in a turn, particularly when it gains them nothing. We all know the habitual offenders in our areas. Usually, we approach those drivers afterward and have a polite discussion. I have even had drivers who committed a track sin against me seek me out afterward to apologize.

[E1pix]

Thanks for the candor and input, Guys.

[Daryl DeArman]

In these sorts of Regional groupings, what does a 115% rule really mean? Clearly in the Sprints, RunOffs and most Majors, it has some value since the classes are not usually so mixed. In the mixed groups, how many cars/classes are within 115% of the FA/P1 or even the FC to FV? IMHO, the rule has little to no value in most Regional races for the Wings n Things

The 115% rule only applies to the class you are entered in. If you are in a FA circulating at more than 115% of the FA lap record, you could be asked to sit this one out. Perhaps your logic is what difference does it really make if you, in your way off the pace FA, is still faster than half the group? I can see that. However, if you are in a FA circulating at FF speeds you are clearly in way over your head, likely distracted by whatever issues/sensory overload you are experiencing. Then factor in that not only are you lapping around FF speeds, you are doing so very, very differently.

A guy in a FF lapping RA in the 2:23 range is much more likely to possess a decent amount of skill and situational awareness than the guy doing everything he can to muster a 2:23 in his FA.

I realize that's a blanket statement, and there could be the guy having some major mechanical issues in his FA. Putt-putting down the straights, giving everybody a point by, trying to get things sorted out when he has a clear track and not getting involved in others' battles. Filling peoples mirrors, whether you are planning to pass or not is still getting involved.

[Tom Grossmann]

I'll pass on what I do because I don't think a lot of people do this. I do these things whether I'm in my dog slow Datsun or when I was in the D-sports racer.

I take a look at the qualifying sheet and calculate what lap I'm either going to be dealing with lapped cars or the leaders are going to come past. It's even possible to factor in what section of track this is likely to occur.

Many tracks loop in on themselves in such a manner it's easy to see when you may be dealing with passing or being passed. When I'm in a short shoot I'll glance across track to see what the spacing is. In the Datsun it's not uncommon for me to be dealing with lead cars that are 20 seconds a lap faster.

On two occasions I've had a minor mechanical that caused a car to be slow, but it was still capable of finishing, I pulled in just past the halfway mark so I would still get credited with an official finish. It was a really tough decision to make, in one case I could have picked up a spot because the car ahead of me broke. Basically if my race has turned into a track day test session, I pull in once I know I'll be credited with a finish. Driving around well off the pace of the car is just soul sucking.

If I'm going to be the lapper and I'm not familiar with that car or cars...…….I walk down to the their pit and look at the car. Having something like red car white numbers planted in my head helps, especially for vintage races where all but 4 of 25 cars are either 510s or 2002s.

This may seem silly but you need to plant this stuff in your brain before you head out on track; the average driver isn't capable of getting their maximum of the car and processing unforeseen circumstances at the same time.

[Daryl DeArman]

I'll pass on what I do because I don't think a lot of people do this. I do these things whether I'm in my dog slow Datsun or when I was in the D-sports racer.

I take a look at the qualifying sheet and calculate what lap I'm either going to be dealing with lapped cars or the leaders are going to come past. It's even possible to factor in what section of track this is likely to occur.

Many tracks loop in on themselves in such a manner it's easy to see when you may be dealing with passing or being passed. When I'm in a short shoot I'll glance across track to see what the spacing is. In the Datsun it's not uncommon for me to be dealing with lead cars that are 20 seconds a lap faster.

On two occasions I've had a minor mechanical that caused a car to be slow, but it was still capable of finishing, I pulled in just past the halfway mark so I would still get credited with an official finish. It was a really tough decision to make, in one case I could have picked up a spot because the car ahead of me broke. Basically if my race has turned into a track day test session, I pull in once I know I'll be credited with a finish. Driving around well off the pace of the car is just soul sucking.

If I'm going to be the lapper and I'm not familiar with that car or cars...…….I walk down to the their pit and look at the car. Having something like red car white numbers planted in my head helps, especially for vintage races where all but 4 of 25 cars are either 510s or 2002s.

This may seem silly but you need to plant this stuff in your brain before you head out on track; the average driver isn't capable of getting their maximum of the car and processing unforeseen circumstances at the same time.

All great advice, and things that probably quite a few folks do without being cognizant of it.

The only thing I'd like to add is to be careful with the lack of flexibility this might cause in your mind. If you/we aren't expecting to see car X in our mirrors until lap Y we may not be paying as much attention prior. Expecting/anticipating a certain outcome can be distracting as well when it doesn't happen like you expect.

[Tom Grossmann]

Daryl, totally agreed; I figured my post was long winded enough as it was, so I left it as is.

[Farrout48]

A significant factor is the blue flags. As drivers, we often get wrapped up in our struggles and forget to glance at the corner stations. The F&C guys have a significantly better view of the track than we do in our tiny mirrors plus they can devote a much longer stare to the track than we can. They can see that a car or cars are gaining on your car better than you can. If they are on the ball, their use of the blue flag can be critical to a driver's track awareness. Seeing the blue flag can also trigger the driver to glance at his mirrors in order to determine which side the faster car is approaching on. Then you know if the faster car is going to take the inside of a turn. There are a lot of variables to consider in a short time period. Since I fully appreciate having a driver of a slower car I am passing put a hand up showing that he knows the situation, I always try to get my hand up when being passed as well.

In some ways, similar to a waving yellow as you are coming into a blind corner. Finding a car sideways on track in the racing line of a blind turn/hill crest is something that is a lot easier to survive if you have been forewarned, have slowed, and are now searching furiously for the reason behind the waving yellow.

As much as we love to race, we also love to be safe and bring the car home in one piece.

[problemchild]

last - if I got held up by a backmarker - got by and then crashed on my own - it is MY fault.

ChrisZ

I agree with this completely, and chose my words very carefully in my previous commentary. When the lead pack of FFs (or F5s) catch the lead pack of FVs in the tightest part of the track, it is a stressful, difficult, dangerous situation that often determines who will win the race, and who ends up crashed at the side of the track, as it did with FF in this case. For a lame car, in any class, to be in the middle of that mess, was unnecessary, even before "parking" in the middle of a corner.

The entire reason we are still talking about this issue, instead of the awesome racing of the 3 classes, was because after the race, the driver complained to his classmates, that he was bullied by cars in the other classes. Once the discussion started, he defended his driving as unfortunate, but justified. He believes he did nothing wrong, and by the rulebook, he is correct. Hopefully, this discussion will inform others that there are standards and expectations that are adopted by most racers, just as in general life. There are no laws saying we have to hold doors open for others or excuse our farts ..... but most people do.

On a humorous side note. Many years ago, after watching the lead 2 FFs crash with a lapped car on the last lap of the Runoffs, I suggested on Apexspeed that slow cars should be black-flagged before being lapped (at our championship event). I thought that being 4 miles behind in a 60 mile race, and getting in the way of the leaders, was disrespectful and dishonorable. I got a very hostile response ...... and was called "elitist" which is probably my favorite insult that I have received on Apexspeed..

[Daryl DeArman]

On a humorous side note. Many years ago, after watching the lead 2 FFs crash with a lapped car on the last lap of the Runoffs, I suggested on Apexspeed that slow cars should be black-flagged before being lapped (at our championship event). I thought that being 4 miles behind in a 60 mile race, and getting in the way of the leaders, was disrespectful and dishonorable. I got a very hostile response ...... and was called "elitist" which is probably my favorite insult that I have received on Apexspeed..

You may recall that not all disagreed with your stance

You are aware that too many people are more concerned with who's making the argument rather than the argument being made. That's not a veiled dig at you, though it could appear that way. It's a dig at the folks who think an idea stinks or is "elitist" simply because they are accustomed to disagreeing with poster proposing the idea.

You've got your "elitist", I've got my "picking fly crap out of the pepper"

[FVRacer21]

......................................

On a humorous side note. Many years ago, after watching the lead 2 FFs crash with a lapped car on the last lap of the Runoffs, I suggested on Apexspeed that slow cars should be black-flagged before being lapped (at our championship event). I thought that being 4 miles behind in a 60 mile race, and getting in the way of the leaders, was disrespectful and dishonorable. I got a very hostile response ...... and was called "elitist" which is probably my favorite insult that I have received on Apexspeed..

It has been a long time since I was lapped in my own class - but as a FV driver, I spent a lot of time waving FF by at Lime Rock (there is even a video posted on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBEde2kLuQA&t=126s

I joked we should just draw a line down the middle of the track and the FF could have one side and we have the other. It is a skill and a lot of work to be the slower car in a group. Not easy to look forward and back at the same time. Now many years ago, FV hated F500 as they were quick on the straight and slow in the turns (especially at old bumpy Lime Rock) and always screwing up our races. Now they are as fast as the FF in most places and normally can get by us with ease.

NASCAR pulls off cars that cannot maintain pace. If we were under the old National/Regional races, Black flagging a slow driver at a National might be a reasonable rule - but under the "everybody gets to race" of the current format - and I assume it will even happen at the Runoffs even within a single class - we need to find a solution.

To add more humor - how about we build race tracks with sidings or slow lanes, so drivers can pull off and out of the way?

ChrisZ

[Jnovak]

[QUOTE=FVRacer21;607155]It has been a long time since I was lapped in my own class - but as a FV driver, I spent a lot of time waving FF by at Lime Rock (there is even a video posted on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBEde2kLuQA&t=126s

I joked we should just draw a line down the middle of the track and the FF could have one side and we have the other. It is a skill and a lot of work to be the slower car in a group. Not easy to look forward and back at the same time. Now many years ago, FV hated F500 as they were quick on the straight and slow in the turns (especially at old bumpy Lime Rock) and always screwing up our races. Now they are as fast as the FF in most places and normally can get by us with ease.

NASCAR pulls off cars that cannot maintain pace. If we were under the old National/Regional races, Black flagging a slow driver at a National might be a reasonable rule - but under the "everybody gets to race" of the current format - and I assume it will even happen at the Runoffs even within a single class - we need to find a solution.

To add more humor - how about we build race tracks with sidings or slow lanes, so drivers can pull off and out of the way?


Interesting series of posts as i remember my first race at RA in an F440 in 1984?? When a vee bumped me a gentle bump at the apex of the last turn. A gentle nudge imo. After the race i went and asked the guy why he bumped me and he said "you were a stone in the corners" i turned and left.

Lesson learned!

[Daryl DeArman]

Interesting series of posts as i remember my first race at RA in an F440 in 1984?? When a vee bumped me a gentle bump at the apex of the last turn. A gentle nudge imo. After the race i went and asked the guy why he bumped me and he said "you were a stone in the corners" i turned and left.

Lesson learned!

At least some folks realize other sports beckon. Alternatively, other roles in the same sport where they can enjoy a good deal of success!

[Jnovak]

At least some folks realize other sports beckon. Alternatively, other roles in the same sport where they can enjoy a good deal of success!

When my son Brian broke the track record in drivers school i knew that my driving days were numbered!