Apex Collective Designed Trailer

[Rick Iverson]

Gents;

Saw this nifty car hauler:



There is is certainly enough brain power here to duplicate this effort to the highest degree of standards. Initial comment, I’d lose the wood in favor of aluminum.

Q: Sprung axels?

Q: Tires adequate for the weight?

Q: Appears quite low. Thoughts?

Q: CG with the axels that far aft to compensate for wheels, tentage, pit equipment etc. under the bonnet?

I have to admit, this is well done, thoughtful, appears to be well designed and built.

How about comments, ideas, parts recommendations, materials etc., and an ad. hoc. volunteer design committee to put together design plans. Once satisfied, offer them for sale at a nominal fee, and proceeds go to Apex. Face it, this place is our second home, and our our family is vast.

[Rick Iverson]

Gents;

First thought: use a scale under the hitch wheel to load the trailer to, say, 300 pounds tongue weight. The actual ball cup on the hitch is forward by 6-8”, so the tongue weight would be less.

[Bardahl77]

With the wheels so far back I kind of wonder about the tongue weight. Smaller SUVs can tow formula cars if the tongue weight isn't very high. Wonder how much the wood adds to weight forward.

[Rick Iverson]

I have a 2019 BMW X3 with a factory installed receiver: The hitch has limits at 425 pounds tongue weight, 4400 GW. With that, I am limited to something like this.

[Mike B]

The trailer in the pic was towed by a Mazda 3 and designed by Jon Staudacher so I'm very confident that it's well balanced, at least for the car that's on it.
My first trailer was designed around my FF and we set the axle back slightly to reduce wag since the weight of the car was biased to the rear.

[stonebridge20]

You better have a pretty long hitch extension with a tongue that short or you won't have much turning radius.

My first FF trailer was a converted snowmobile trailer. Those little tires have to make a LOT of revolutions on some pretty small bearings. I was constantly servicing and or replacing them.

[Rick Iverson]

You better have a pretty long hitch extension with a tongue that short or you won't have much turning radius.

Damn good point, Sir

[Hawke]

With a trailer like that, there is no reason for the floor to be flat. If its angled up at say 15 degrees, it makes unloading automatic, minimises bottoming out when loading, and allows a space under the front of the car to store stuff at a low level.

None the less, having owned a single and double axel trailer, and seen what happens when a tyre blows, I’d only be considering a double axle.

[EricP]

The trailer in the pic was towed by a Mazda 3 and designed by Jon Staudacher so I'm very confident that it's well balanced, at least for the car that's on it.
My first trailer was designed around my FF and we set the axle back slightly to reduce wag since the weight of the car was biased to the rear.

I owned that for a couple years. More like I was the curator. Bought it from Jon. Superbly designed, built, and balanced.

I traded it for another of his. I like it as much as I like my race car. More info: https://sportsracernet.smugmug.com/C...tom-trailer-4/

[lowside67]

I have a 2019 BMW X3 with a factory installed receiver: The hitch has limits at 425 pounds tongue weight, 4400 GW. With that, I am limited to something like this.

An aluminum 14x7 enclosed can easily weigh 1500lbs or less in a basic spec and with construction appropriate for the lightweight of the formula car. With a car and a modest set of spares, you should be able to get in at 3000lbs all in, well under the restrictions for your X3?

-Mark

[DanW]

This company makes some brilliant light weight trailers, including ones with tilt beds.

When we visited Road America for the FF 50th, several competitors had these trailers, most were towed by small SUVs, one by a Subaru Forester.

https://montrosetrailers.com/

[ChristopherBernard]

I built myself a 14' enclosed trailer with a stressed aluminum skin for a "Caterham" Seven. Empty weight is 760lbs. Single 2500lb. axel.
At one time towed with a 2002 Subaru WRX. Could cruise at 100mph. A bit scary but....

[Purple Frog]

I have a 20' v-nose enclosed trailer. A real workhorse. Built by a fly-by-night plant in South Georgia. Have had it 17 years now. Used it yesterday. Can't argue about the ROI.

In the South we drive long distances to race... never liked the small diameter tires. YMMV

But, for the Outlaw Bug I decided to go open / old skool. Built this tilt bed last year for about $1,500 with 4' drop axle and brakes, and LED lighting.

[swiftdrivr]

I have a PACE 18 ft enclosed trailer. Unfortunately, PACE makes 18 ft trailers by cutting 2 ft off a 20 ft trailer, and they don't re-balance the results. As such, I have too much tongue wt, even with a mid-engine car. I have cabinets in front that are unusable as the tongue wt is already too high. I can't bring fuel to the track. I have to strap my toolbox under the swift's tail, and put the jump battery behind the rear tire. All this is massively inconvenient. The design of a trailer needs to leave room for loading the trailer. The flip side of this is that it still has to tow well empty, of course. I don't know the answer, but I don't engineer trailers. PACE does engineer trailers, just not very well. [the trailer is over 20 years old. Maybe they've gotten better]

[t walgamuth]

I have a 20' v-nose enclosed trailer. A real workhorse. Built by a fly-by-night plant in South Georgia. Have had it 17 years now. Used it yesterday. Can't argue about the ROI.

In the South we drive long distances to race... never liked the small diameter tires. YMMV

But, for the Outlaw Bug I decided to go open / old skool. Built this tilt bed last year for about $1,500 with 4' drop axle and brakes, and LED lighting.

I had a minimalist open trailer, even more minimal than this one....the decks were guardrail. It was a nice device because I could strip off the body and work on the car sitting on the trailer. Unfortunately it got melted along with the FF Lynn bought from me. I have a nice 20' enclosed also made in south Georgia. It is lovely but it takes a lot ot fuel to haul it. I get a hankering for one of these minimal open trailers to use for good weather.

[UGLYDUCK]

I have a 20' v-nose enclosed trailer. A real workhorse. Built by a fly-by-night plant in South Georgia. Have had it 17 years now. Used it yesterday. Can't argue about the ROI.

In the South we drive long distances to race... never liked the small diameter tires. YMMV

But, for the Outlaw Bug I decided to go open / old skool. Built this tilt bed last year for about $1,500 with 4' drop axle and brakes, and LED lighting.

Great little open
trailer. I have been thinking about building the same for my Crossle. Great as a second trailer and short trips. Did you design it?

[Lynn]

Yup, the aluminum runners are probably puddles on the concrete and the wooden ramps are charcoal. It towed really nice.

[DaveW]

I have a PACE 18 ft enclosed trailer. Unfortunately, PACE makes 18 ft trailers by cutting 2 ft off a 20 ft trailer, and they don't re-balance the results. As such, I have too much tongue wt, even with a mid-engine car. I have cabinets in front that are unusable as the tongue wt is already too high. I can't bring fuel to the track. I have to strap my toolbox under the swift's tail, and put the jump battery behind the rear tire. All this is massively inconvenient. The design of a trailer needs to leave room for loading the trailer. The flip side of this is that it still has to tow well empty, of course. I don't know the answer, but I don't engineer trailers. PACE does engineer trailers, just not very well. [the trailer is over 20 years old. Maybe they've gotten better]

Jim,

I've forgotten. What do you tow with? Does it have the capability of a class 3 hitch? If it does you could use weight-distribution bars to reduce the tongue weight.

[pleavens]

I'd be worried about finding some little kid sitting in the car crying his eyes out, 400 miles after my last rest stop.

[swiftdrivr]

Jim,

I've forgotten. What do you tow with? Does it have the capability of a class 3 hitch? If it does you could use weight-distribution bars to reduce the tongue weight.

I tow with a 27 ft RV, and use weight distribution bars. It tows fine at 70, but the loading pattern to meet the RVs max tongue wt is a pain.

[Retroracer]

At the FF Festival at Brands Hatch I noticed that the trailer of choice for towing with cars and small SUVs is the Brian James Sprint Shuttle. There were dozens of them in the paddock. Enclosed, sturdy construction, split ramp / man-door and empty weight of about 1700#
The company unfortunately has told me they will not export to America due to liability and the litigious nature of business here.
https://www.brianjames.co.uk/trailer...ttle/#overview

[DaveW]

That's pretty darn slick! Maybe someone here will make something like that eventually.

[TedV]

That's pretty darn slick! Maybe someone here will make something like that eventually.

Already being made for a while. But if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it.
https://www.bre2.net/aerovault.info/the-aerovault/

[Fred Michael]

At the FF Festival at Brands Hatch I noticed that the trailer of choice for towing with cars and small SUVs is the Brian James Sprint Shuttle. There were dozens of them in the paddock. Enclosed, sturdy construction, split ramp / man-door and empty weight of about 1700#
The company unfortunately has told me they will not export to America due to liability and the litigious nature of business here.
https://www.brianjames.co.uk/trailer...ttle/#overview

I have used them a few times in the last few years. They are REALLY slick.

[t walgamuth]

Already being made for a while. But if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it.
https://www.bre2.net/aerovault.info/the-aerovault/

just under 30K new with not much options. Lovely design! Love Pete Brock's eye.

[Retroracer]

Already being made for a while. But if you have to ask how much, you can't afford it.
https://www.bre2.net/aerovault.info/the-aerovault/

The Aerovault is really cool but weighs 600# more than the Sprint Shuttle and costs >3X more.
An interesting ratio is the weight of the trailer to the weight of the race car.

[Purple Frog]

It requires 600 more pounds to make the american lawyers happy.

[ChristopherBernard]

Yes, but the Aerovault is aluminum. Substantial too.
Did I mention I hate plastic?

[DanW]

Yes, but the Aerovault is aluminum. Substantial too.
Did I mention I hate plastic?

I can imagine how brittle the plastic might become after about 3 years in AZ or CA sun.

[EYERACE]

It's single axle. Uhhhh.........no. With those smaller tires and single axle......double no.

Since I'm from Florida.....and not very far from New Smyrna Beach - (which just so happens to be The Shark Bite Capital of the World) - one would not merely think of sharks.........but porpoise as well.

Depending on what one has as the tow vehicle the tongue weight/porpoise might be a real problem........so......depending on what one uses to tow such a trailer and the thought of the small tires and being single axle and how far one tows and at what speed......
.....................it may or may not bite you

[Ed Womer]

I tow with a 27 ft RV, and use weight distribution bars. It tows fine at 70, but the loading pattern to meet the RVs max tongue wt is a pain.

Hi Jim,

I towed with a 27' motor home and had a 24' enclosed trailer that started to bend the frame. I bought a Trailer Toad and it ended my problems. I have since sold everyting but still have the Trailer Toad and would like to sell it as well. If anyone is interested let me know.

Ed

[Rick Kirchner]

ED, if you weren't so far away... Trailer Toads are a great piece of kit. If somebody did some "value engineering" on them they might be more popular.

Those small tires people keep talking about - I believe they are the ones used on Acme EZ tow dollys for a number of years. The low tire height meant that you didn't need to put a pivoting frame on top of the dolly - you could unlock the towed vehicle's steering and it could pivot without the worry of putting a fender into the door. Lots of folks just loved those dollys - light weight and you could store them vertically against a wall and slide them under your coach when parked.

It seems they re-designed it a bit and are using larger tires now, don't know why. Never heard of problems with the originals.

[Rick Kirchner]

We could use this as a diversion from not racing - propose a set of requirements and then use the apexspeed group think to design a trailer or three - lay out a set of items that make for a reasonably priced item that folks could use to spec out future purchases.

[lowside67]

While I do think that a tandem axle trailer has a lot of benefit, an appropriately spec'd single is probably totally adequate for the "hypothetical" open wheel build.

What I was thinking about at one time was a flat deck aluminum trailer built around a single Dexter 3500lb torsion axle which provides a full size tire and is as roadworthy as any trailer axle available but with the lower height of a torsion. This axle with electric braking and all the upgrades (aluminum mounting point, lowered design, ez-grease ports, etc) is about $500 all in and all you would add are wheels/tires and your running gear would be complete.

Then I would build some "uprights" or "bows" and then ratchet down a sturdy tarp cover similar to how a semi truck does it.



The cover would be ratcheted taught against the bows so there would be 0 flapping or anything at speed but it would be 100% weather sealed and a fair bit more secure against wandering eyes.

-Mark

[phantomjock]

Seems they have developed a "Hardtop" version. Based on an aluminum trailer, I bet there is some reverse engineering possibilities here.



They also have a "retro kit"


Not too unlike the "bow-idea" suggested if you use the fabric option.

Cheers - Jim

[Rick Iverson]

Seems they have developed a "Hardtop" version. Based on an aluminum trailer, I bet there is some reverse engineering possibilities here.



They also have a "retro kit"


Not too unlike the "bow-idea" suggested if you use the fabric option.

Cheers - Jim

I LIKE IT! And canvas top and curtains?

[Rick Kirchner]

those tarps only stay on because the trucker stuff has the tie downs sewn into the tarp. I doubt if you could seriously get much life out of any fabric cover costing less than several hundred dollars.

[phantomjock]

Set of Kevlar sails last 5 years - racing 24/7 But --YES Expensive! SO forget 'bout it!

I would like to get some long term reviews of the Serpent Express fabric.

There might be some use here.

Cheers - Jim

[swiftdrivr]

Any reason a trailer can't have a roof that raises and lowers, like a pop-up trailer? Less wind resistance, more functionality at the track, easier loading. The trade off is weight, I'd guess, but if I were towing with something lower than an RV, I'd imagine it would be a net gain.

[mmi16]

Any reason a trailer can't have a roof that raises and lowers, like a pop-up trailer? Less wind resistance, more functionality at the track, easier loading. The trade off is weight, I'd guess, but if I were towing with something lower than an RV, I'd imagine it would be a net gain.

A trailer can be virtually anything a inventive mind wants to build.

Especially when it is to be used to haul a Formula car and the tools necessary to race it.