Chuck's Money Spend Equation:
Chuck’s Money Speed Equation:Originally Posted by mmi16
Money = Speed = Velocity
Chuck you’ve been hanging around with all the F500 Check Writes that spend stupid amounts of money for a ZERO increase in speed & lower lap times. Your money speed equation is complete total nonsense. I can teach a Monkey how pour stupid amounts of money down a drain. It actually takes knowledge and brains to achieve the highest system performance at the LOWEST cost.
Last edited by sathorp; 03.27.20 at 11:06 AM.
Uhh, what?
-Mark
Mark Uhlmann
Vancouver, Canada
'12 Stohr WF1
Thread lock......incoming!
Stonebridge Sports & Classics ltd
15 Great Pasture Rd Danbury, CT. 06810 (203) 744-1120
www.cryosciencetechnologies.com
Cryogenic Processing · REM-ISF Processing · Race Prep & Driver Development
Chuck has repeated this money equals speed over and over to the F500 class and others.
Chuck is right. Devil is in the details though. You can spend all the money on technology and only be mid pack. Or you can spend money on training and practice and be closer to the front. Etc.
I totally agree it's how & where you spend the time & money. IMO, I think you can spend less money in some cases and make a bigger impact on lap time.
Some people may not believe it but you can find lower cost technology solutions to problems. It can be done!!!
Can you spend only time and improve lap time? Then does Speed Cost Money?
We wish to maximize knowledge and skill to improve lap time! Lap time is the System Metric!
Was always taught speed is proportional to the thickness of your wallet.
Now what you spend it on will make or break you.
Spending money or not is irrelevant until you actually participate in races instead of just posting on forums.
NO - all time costs money
That's True!!!
Remember we witnessed Toyota in F1 outspend every other team in F1 and they were still at the back of the grid; that being said the teams at the points end of the grid spent nearly as much - they just did it with more efficiency.
Show me a Top Fueler in Drag racing that doesn't rebuild his engine after every run and I'll show you someone that didn't make it past the 1st round of qualifying.
I spend more money competing than my performances would indicate, however, I am on track and have been doing so for the past 32 years - not just racing my keyboard.
Decades ago Aurther Mallock used outside of the box thinking and a very rigorously systematic development program to get amazing results on a ; even for the time, tiny budget.
I have huge respect for Mallock cars, sure would be nice to own one day.
Greg
Actually both points of view are correct.
A clever program with some sweat equity can get some serious results.
If you do the bare minimum (budget wise) to qualify for RunOffs and use the savings for testing and the Runoffs itself, one could stretch the budget. Once you get to the RunOffs you need to have a budget pretty close to what you're competitors have.
I'm in the sweat equity camp and I mangage some decent results but it's a hell of a lot of sweat.
I've also been involved with a couple of no expense spared projects and it's so much easier. You can take all of the energy spent on the sweat equity and use it elsewhere I.E. Focus almost purely on driving. Having the extra budget to do a few more test days is a huge advantage. It's maybe only be a few tenths but over 15 laps that's huge.
Of course as pointed out simply throwing money at it doesn't gaurentee success but it sure doesn't hurt.
https://www.dinnerwithracers.com/epi...vel-5-special/
Remember, the above discussion was about a car for SCCA Club Racing.
Not my money, not my car.
I'm not sure that I agree. It is my opinion that winning is the system metric. Going faster is the beginning metric but winning is my metric.
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
"Time ain't really money when all you got is time" -Greg Brown.
Caldwell D9B - Sold
Crossle' 30/32/45 Mongrel - Sold
RF94 Monoshock - here goes nothin'
Well, as the virtual iNASCAR race today proved, money ain't everything as Timmy Hill won with a $400 Logitech wheel clamped to a desk over Denny Hamlin's $40,000 super rig.
While part of that is true, Timmy has close to 1000 iracing starts and 600 plus iracing wins. Practice, practice, practice. So money was spent he just chose to spend it in a different area.Well, as the virtual iNASCAR race today proved, money ain't everything as Timmy Hill won with a $400 Logitech wheel clamped to a desk over Denny Hamlin's $40,000 super rig.
Everybody, even Tucker, has/had a finite amount of money and time to race.
Those that used both wisely usually do pretty well. There are some people that spend a large percentage of both on things that don't translate to success, but rather to things they've deemed a priority.
As to lap times vs. finishing position. Of course we all want to finish first, but if you can't even catch the guy then race-craft doesn't enter into the equation.
IMO you must concentrate on lap times until you are in the ball park (.5/sec lap or so). Then you must concentrate on finding a set up and fitness (mental and physical) that comes in quick and doesn't go away too soon. Once you have that you can worry about race craft. You can be fit as a fiddle, turn laps all within .3 second from each other for a half hour, have excellent race craft, but if you're .75 second+ off the pole you aren't winning.
Our team has a quote for this.
"Consistency is cool, but if you consistentily suck you still suck"
Quote by Megan Cabot
The simulation stuff is becoming the norm now days. If you don't have it you'd better get it. For me it's made a world of difference. I don't mind admitting that at one time I thought it was a joke. I was fortunate enough to have connections with one of the top simulation companies around the first time I ever set it in a real simulator. We swung by simcraft on the way home from the sprints and I was a believer from that point on. Since then I've simulated the runoffs each year I've went starting in 2017. It's helped.
https://www.sim500.com/nemesis-lab-winter-k-n-series
https://www.simcraft.com/
If you want professional development talk to Kelly Jones at Racecraft1
http://www.racecraft1.com/what-level-am-i.php
Clint, I've seen first hand the effects of people who play so called games a number of times. I stopped being dismissive of having at least a rudimentary simulator set up at least 10-15 years ago.
Most recently was about a year and a half ago; my son has a friend who has a good bit of natural talent (he's done some local drift events) but 90% of his experience is Sim racing. I put him in the F500 at an autocross and he was within 1/2 second of my ties. He's never autocrossed before and had never been in Formula car.
My budget is blessed by my having no asperations other than local events but if I were going to the RunOffs, I would absolutely be doing simulation work as well as a having driver coach. Note we have a bare bones set up at he house now and my fabricator/engineer is basically my driver coach (I bounce various ideas off him and we set up goals).
I also for got to mention I'm doing almost no Data Acquisition; the dash on my car has minimal capabilities and it really is an area that I could use to pick a good bit of time. My only reason for not updating is purely money; for local autocross and vintage racing I'm not serious enough to justify the money. Read even if I did install it I'm not sure I'd use it to the fullest.
It is that kind of thinking that is getting me more marine work than race car stuff.
Even if you don't use the DA for driver improvement it is excellent for generating time use records for maintenance decisions.
Agreed on logging hours; I doubt most people do as I do and use timesheets / results to record run time in a maintenance log book.
Sim cost money, how much do you want to simulate? You can get in over your checkbook!
No doubt it does! I just stayed home for one race and had the money for it then. It was a good choice.
The best professional driver coach I've had was Kelly Jones at Racecraft1. If you're lucky enough to get some time booked with him you'll soon realize how far you're off of you're potential. Kelly coaches a wide variety of drivers anywhere from Indy car to go kart drivers and has obtained a high level of respect in the professional ranks.
With the prices quoted in the simcraft site, I would need to stay home a season or two.
I spent 1500 initially and that included the computer (thanks Matt strand) , the monitor and the wheel/pedals. That's enough for the majority of the people wanting an entry level SIM. From that point until now I have a total of 2800.00 invested in mine. I have it to where it feels identical to my car. I would love to have motion but that's a decent amount of money to fork out. You don't need but about 1600.00 if you currently don't have the computer to power the system. You'll spend that in one race.
Clint thank you for sharing what you are spending on these things; not everyone would.
I'm spending $900 for a local 3 day race weekend & $1000 for a two day out of town event. (Note this applies whether it's the Datsun or the F500) I'm probably doing it cheaper than anyone. So $1500 on a Sim set up isn't really a huge outlay if one is serious.
Wow! That's great management!
Breakdown of a typical weekend:
1) Entry fee 475.00-900.00 (regional to majors)
2) Travel costs with a tow rig that gets 12mpg 36.00 (200 miles round trip)-133.00 (728 miles round trip)
3) Hotel 65.00-125.00 ( if no hotel the gas multiplies by 2xs or 3xs)
4) Race gas 75.00 (assuming 93octane) price will increase a little with two stroke oil.
5) Tires 261.00/weekend (785.00/ set and assuming you can make them last for three weekends)
6) Brake pads 53.33/ weekend (160.00set and assuming you can get three weekends out them)
1033.00-1422.33 is the cheapest you'll get by for weekend costs depending upon where the race is and what level you're racing at.
This above assumption doesn't include anualized: 1) Motor rebuilds 1500 -4500 (minimum 100/race)
2) Rotor replacements 400-550 (minimum 33/race)
3) Oil changes (MC cars) 60
4) Clutch rebuilds (two stroke cars) 600 (minimum 65/race)
5) Clutch belts ( two stroke cars) 65-110 (minimum 20/race)
6) Final drive chains/belts 80-130 (minimum 25/race)
7) Bearings 220-1500 (minimum 25/race)
8) Rod ends 250-750 (minimum 25/race)
9) Exhaust cracking and having to be replaced 450 (minimum 50/race)
10) Safety harnesses 150 (30 /year)
11) Driver gear (helmet) 400 (40/year)
12) Tow vehicle maintenance 600- 1200 ( assuming three races ) 200/race
There's more but we'll stick with this for now.
Minimum of 613.00/race on top of weekend costs.
Total of 1643.00 minimum / weekend.
I will tell you the time spent at a track with friends is
PRICELESS
& I am a computer guy....
My opinion of this thread is simple. There's guys that can spend very little and make it work and guys that can have a blank check that couldn't win if their life depended on it. I know of at least 5 guys that's currently in the class that would be really close if their budget and current car was exactly the same. There's also guys like CJ McAbee that would be at the pointy end of the field if he had current equipment and the same budget as the other guys at the front. Bottom line is there's a give and take on any racers budget. I made the decision to invest in the sim rig by setting out a couple of races. Since then I've improved myself as well as my cars performance utilizing this tool. When you look at the minimum weekend spend that I laid out earlier you'll see that in two races you can afford the sim rig. The advantages of the rig are as follows:
1) Track familiarity
2) Lap consistency
3) Race craft
4) There's a reset button when you push too hard.
I currently carry the sim rig to the track with me to capitalize on every advantage I can. Prioritize your budget and do as you see fit, but if you're consistently getting whooped by guys that has the sim rigs I'm going to take a guess and say you're priorities aren't in proper order.
What car do you use to train with?
Garey Guzman
FF #4 (Former Cal Club member, current Atlanta Region member)
https://redroadracing.com/ (includes Zink and Citation Registry)
https://www.thekentlives.com/ (includes information on the FF Kent engine, chassis and history)
USF2000 in R-Factor2
Clint I wanted to clarify; with my budget I am simply "participating" whereas you are actually competing, but you probably knew that. The races I participate in also have a lot fewer laps.
The fewer laps would make it a little cheaper. How much cheaper would vary from track to track of course. At any rate, if you're on track and spending less than 1600.00 a weekend all in you're doing great! Chuck McAbee is the most economical driver I've seen over the years that has the best finishing results given his budget. I'd be interested to hear what Chuck spends on average. Just FYI, when I started out I spent as little as possible and saved money every way I could. Even with doing all of that I couldn't get away with much less than what I posted before (costs would be adjusted to reflect mid 2000s ).
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote