494 engine mod

[Jnovak]

Just a heads up.. some of you may know that Brad Hulings has come up with a way to turn a 494 rotary valve 500 motor into a 600cc engine.

What brad does is to purchase a new or a used 583 top end including cylinders and cylinder head. He also purchases new pistons and rings andcafter lots of machine work. The 583 cylinders, head and pistons now fit on the 494 bottom end and this engine is now a 600cc rotary valve motor the makes about 113-114 hp. The hp is close enough to the 593 to easily allow for competition with weight adjustments as required

The total cost assuming that you can uses your 494 bottom end will be about $1500. This is a bargain imo.

Imo this might help the class numbers and if implemented might gain the class another year or more to make the required entry numbers

If the 494 community thinks this project has merit that is great. If the community is interested then a small committee should be formed to write up the formal proposal.

Act fast or it will not happen! I suggest that you form a small committee of curent competitors and move very quickly.

Call me if you need advice as i have been through this B4 and i know what it takes. Time is of the essence.

Jay novak
jaynovak@comcast.net

[Jnovak]

Just a heads up.. some of you may know that Brad Hulings has come up with a way to turn a 494 rotary valve 500 motor into a 600cc engine.

What brad does is to purchase a new or a used 583 top end including cylinders and cylinder head. He also purchases new pistons and rings andcafter lots of machine work. The 583 cylinders, head and pistons now fit on the 494 bottom end and this engine is now a 600cc rotary valve motor the makes about 113-114 hp. The hp is close enough to the 593 to easily allow for competition with weight adjustments as required

The total cost assuming that you can uses your 494 bottom end will be about $1500. This is a bargain imo.

Imo this might help the class numbers and if implemented might gain the class another year or more to make the required entry numbers

If the 494 community thinks this project has merit that is great. If the community is interested then a small committee should be formed to write up the formal proposal.

Act fast or it will not happen! I suggest that you form a small committee of curent competitors and move very quickly.

Call me if you need advice as i have been through this B4 and i know what it takes. Time is of the essence.

Jay novak
jaynovak@comcast.net

Is there no one who cares?

I am simply passing the info on. I am not involved.

[Daryl DeArman]

Somebody must. 100+ views. Maybe not enough people racing the 494 package to care. . .maybe you should have said that the cylinders and pistons were going to be manufactured by JE Pistons or Geartronix. That would have got some folks excited!

[Jnovak]

Somebody must. 100+ views. Maybe not enough people racing the 494 package to care. . .maybe you should have said that the cylinders and pistons were going to be manufactured by JE Pistons or Geartronix. That would have got some folks excited!

True on the excitement front but costs?

[TDI PILOT]

I would think anyone who owns a 494 powered F500 who wants to be more competitive would absolutely jump on this idea..

Anybody? I will share on the F5 Facebook page

-Eric

[aims20]

What Pipe? Same as what he would be running if it had been the previous 494 setup?

[mark 21]

There would have to be a different Pipe it is a differently ported motor and the volume would be increased. The 583 is not a 494 bored out. Different ports high and width of ports.

[mark 21]

I also looked up the exhaust side of the motor has round shaped port on the manifold side. Also the bolt pattern for the exhaust is square and the pattern on the 494 is rectangular so you would need a different y pipe. But the idea has merit. The 583 motor can be bought on e bay for 350 up to about 700. That crank is stronger then the 494s. But the PTO is also a different profile then the 494s so you would have to get a different drive clutch. Not sure what the hp of a 583 is but they were fast sled motors in the day. just throwing out that option also.

[sathorp]

Posted on the F500/FModified Facebook Page by Jay Novak

https://www.facebook.com/groups/360619197459057

Jay Novak Brad does not want any 500 business! He will let me know how this is done and I will make it public!
· 57m

[Jnovak]

There would have to be a different Pipe it is a differently ported motor and the volume would be increased. The 583 is not a 494 bored out. Different ports high and width of ports.

Will check on the pipe!

[Jnovak]

Posted on the F500/FModified Facebook Page by Jay Novak

https://www.facebook.com/groups/360619197459057

Jay Novak Brad does not want any 500 business! He will let me know how this is done and I will make it public!
· 57m

I think that Brad is frustrated.

[Tom Grossmann]

Even for someone as cheap as me $1500 would be a hell of a deal.

[Jnovak]

Even for someone as cheap as me $1500 would be a hell of a deal.

I totally agree!

[Tom Grossmann]

I saw the post on the Facebook page. I look forward to see what it takes to do this as I've still yet to install the 494 in the car and doing the modifications before putting the motor in the car would be a better way to go. I'm thinking this summer is when I will finally get the motor change done. (The pesky AMW engine keeps running)

Before anyone chimes in about the legality; remember that for local autocross I can simply change classes and for road racing the vintage group I run with a me in a catch all class.

[sathorp]

I saw the post on the Facebook page. I look forward to see what it takes to do this as I've still yet to install the 494 in the car and doing the modifications before putting the motor in the car would be a better way to go. I'm thinking this summer is when I will finally get the motor change done. (The pesky AMW engine keeps running)

Before anyone chimes in about the legality; remember that for local autocross I can simply change classes and for road racing the vintage group I run with a me in a catch all class.

Just go install a 593 with no inlet restrictors - job done!!!

[Richard-6]

I saw the post on the Facebook page. I look forward to see what it takes to do this as I've still yet to install the 494 in the car and doing the modifications before putting the motor in the car would be a better way to go. I'm thinking this summer is when I will finally get the motor change done. (The pesky AMW engine keeps running)

Before anyone chimes in about the legality; remember that for local autocross I can simply change classes and for road racing the vintage group I run with a me in a catch all class.

If the crankcase stays the same with the 494 stamped on the nameplate, and you do the "magic" change to the cylinders, sussh, keep it to your self. No one will know and your on track performance will start to look like you have transformed into a Hamilton.

[sathorp]

You guys are posting on the wrong Forum! You should be posting here!

Lemme see your Franken Motors .....

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/rea...949246,3949995

[sathorp]

Sorry, didn't give the begining of the thread!

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?1,3949246

[Tom Grossmann]

Scott, keeping the 494 bottom end means keeping the motor mounts the same as well as a couple of other things, so there is an advantage to it.

Richard, at this point I've established myself as more of a Mr. Oversteer type so they'll be no Hamilton comparisons; De Cesaris is certainly a possibility but definitely not Hamilton.

[sathorp]

You can't move 4 holes over 1/2"!!!

[sathorp]

Tom - Go for it Bro, Knock yourself out, Have a Ball

But it's not legal in F500!!!

[sathorp]

Tom - My recommendation is to call Jay at home and you can
discuss this personal project of yours, all you want directly
with Jay.

[Bill Schmidt]

While some may think this conversion is a bargain, I do not. I see 593 engines for sale all the time for $700 to $1000. Hell, it might be better to legalize the 583 engine, as they made a gazillion of the. I see 583 engines for sale from $300 to $600. I am sure that a 583 will respond to restrictors, just like the 593 does, maybe even better.

[mark 21]

Scott, keeping the 494 bottom end means keeping the motor mounts the same as well as a couple of other things, so there is an advantage to it.

Richard, at this point I've established myself as more of a Mr. Oversteer type so they'll be no Hamilton comparisons; De Cesaris is certainly a possibility but definitely not Hamilton.

The 583 is going to have the same bolt pattern as
the 494 on the crank case.

[Jnovak]

Thanks for the many comments. I just received the doc from Brad and will post it very soon!

The only reason for starting this thread is that I want F500 to survive!

You can't go faster for less money period!

[allof6]

Not being up to date on the two-strokes but is this mod legal for road racing?

[sathorp]

Not being up to date on the two-strokes but is this mod legal for road racing?

NO! It's not currently legal for Road Racing!
It would require rule changes approved by the CRB.

[Jnovak]

Not being up to date on the two-strokes but is this mod legal for road racing?

No it is not legal now. I am proposing that the f500 community form a committee to create a proposal to get it approved by the CRB.

[Jnovak]

Who wants to be on an official SCCA AD HOC COMMITTEE TO GET OTHER 2 STROKE ENGINES APPROVED FOR USE IN F500.

[sathorp]

FASTRACK December 2019
CLUB RACING BOARD MINUTES | November 5, 2019

Not Recommended
F5
2. #27664 (S. Jay Novak) F500 in Trouble!
Thank you for your letter. The Club Racing Board does not recommend these changes. The Formula/Sports Racing Committee capably advises the Club Racing Board on matters relating to the F500 class and there is no plan to create an F500 ad hoc committee. The Club Racing Board will continue to monitor class performance and will make appropriate, data-based adjustments as necessary.

[Jnovak]

FASTRACK December 2019
CLUB RACING BOARD MINUTES | November 5, 2019

Not Recommended
F5
2. #27664 (S. Jay Novak) F500 in Trouble!
Thank you for your letter. The Club Racing Board does not recommend these changes. The Formula/Sports Racing Committee capably advises the Club Racing Board on matters relating to the F500 class and there is no plan to create an F500 ad hoc committee. The Club Racing Board will continue to monitor class performance and will make appropriate, data-based adjustments as necessary.

That does not mean it is impossible,. What it means is that the Crb is not happy with the members of the F500 community¡

[Jnovak]

I am struggling to post the doc here goes again!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KnW...w?usp=drivesdk

The link works. I will try to answer your questions!

[Jnovak]

While some may think this conversion is a bargain, I do not. I see 593 engines for sale all the time for $700 to $1000. Hell, it might be better to legalize the 583 engine, as they made a gazillion of the. I see 583 engines for sale from $300 to $600. I am sure that a 583 will respond to restrictors, just like the 593 does, maybe even better.

Give it a try do it!

Brad thinks that the potential of the 583 494 combo engine performance is 112 hp with. No inlet restrictors used!

[Tom Grossmann]

Jay thanks for posting that.

[Jnovak]

What Pipe? Same as what he would be running if it had been the previous 494 setup?

I just talked to Brad about the pipe and he stated that the engine runs best with the 593 pipe with no restrictors in the intake system. Vs a 593 which has an inlet restrictor on each intake. This could be a very low cost solution that could even up the 2 stroke performance issues for a minimal cost.

There are 2 big issues IMO.

1. Does anyone actually care?
2. Will anyone spend the $$$$?

[sathorp]

I just talked to Brad about the pipe and he stated that the engine runs best with the 593 pipe with no restrictors in the intake system. Vs a 593 which has an inlet restrictor on each intake. This could be a very low cost solution that could even up the 2 stroke performance issues for a minimal cost.

There are 2 big issues IMO.

1. Does anyone actually care?
2. Will anyone spend the $$$$?

1. Yes I care about the Rotax 494 Engine!
2. No I will not spend the money to do this conversion!

Anyone who's interested in this conversation for
Road Racing can write their letter to the CRB.

GO FOR IT!!!

https://www.crbscca.com/

[Jnovak]

1. Yes I care about the Rotax 494 Engine!
2. No I will not spend the money to do this conversion!

Anyone who's interested in this conversation for
Road Racing can write their letter to the CRB.

GO FOR IT!!!

https://www.crbscca.com/

I agree! If you support this proposal or any other that has any merit then write your letter to the CRB

www.crbscca.com

[mmi16]

Before any action is taken on this or any other 2-stroke engine proposal - the SCCA, CRB and BOD need to make a statement as to what level of power ALL engines, both 4-stroke and 2-stroke are attempting to be give parity at.

'Pot Shotting' restrictions leads one to reasonably believe that no one at SCCA, the CRB or the BOD have ANY IDEA what level of power they desire F500 cars to possess.

[Jnovak]

Before any action is taken on this or any other 2-stroke engine proposal - the SCCA, CRB and BOD need to make a statement as to what level of power ALL engines, both 4-stroke and 2-stroke are attempting to be give parity at.

'Pot Shotting' restrictions leads one to reasonably believe that no one at SCCA, the CRB or the BOD have ANY IDEA what level of power they desire F500 cars to possess.

I do not think that the 2 strokes and the MC engines can be equalized!

When I first proposed the use of 600 cc MC engines I tried my damnedest to make the F600 a separate class and I was told by the chairman of the CRB to make it fit into F500 or go away!

[sathorp]

Dan:

This is topic for a new thread because it’s unrelated to F500 Carbs!

Years of endlessly discussing this topic online is pointless and it has solved nothing in the past!

Per the current F500 rules the Rotax Model 593 Engine has mandatory 25mm restrictors in an 850lbs. car and the 600cc Motorcycle Engine now has a mandatory 28mm restrictors in a 900lbs. car. There is no 114hp or 115hp standard or target in the F500 class that I’m aware of. In fact, show me any SCCA CRB/BoD approved document that defines any engine horsepower standard or target for any engine in the F500 class. IT DOESN’T EXIST to the best of my knowledge!

The only way you can change the rules is to write letters to the CRB! Endless talking for years and years is a complete waste of time and accomplishes nothing IMO!

Thanks, I appreciate your support for the 494/493 Engines!

Scott

You are correct in that the scca never defines a hp target. What they typically do is to make restrictions such as weight and other restrictions that limit performance. Racers are then free to continue development within those and other restrictions that are within the rules, such as no mods to production parts allowed.

The only way to change the rules is to write a technically rigorous letter to the FSRAC & CRB. The letter must have technical merit plus all the supporting information and data that allows the FSRAC & CRB to make data-based adjustments. That's the only way to get a rule change approved in this class IMO.

Scott