Toggle (or rocker?) switches & lights (to indicate on, off)

[RussMcB]

I need four on-off toggle switches for my dash:

• Ignition
• Fuel Pump (the low pressure Facet pump - not the high pressure EFI pump)
• Water Pump
• Rain Light

Requirements and desires:

• Shallow depth (behind dash)
• Small switches (to avoid hitting with knuckles). Rocker switches instead of traditional toggle?
• Prefer not to solder
• Indicator lights (can be separate from switches)

Regarding the indicator lights:

• For the Ignition and Rain Light switches, I'd like the light to be lit when the switch is on. The light should not be too bright, not distracting. It's just informational, nice to have.
• For the Fuel Pump and Water Pump switches, I'd like the dash light to be lit if the Ignition switch is on but the toggle switch is off. This is to highlight (prevent) the engine running with the fuel pump or water pump not running. It is a "Hey, you forgot something" warning and should be bright. I think I can do this with a SPDT or DPDT ON-ON switch.

I'm looking for recommendations for both the switches and indicator lights.

Thanks very much in advance.

[TimH]

I like a toggle that's easy to hit "Off" in a hurry at need. Just installed this one and like it:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Comes two to the package.

Agree about rockers for most else but have no specific advice, especially about how to wire the extra warning light. If I had a fuel pump I'd want a quick-off option there, too.

[Charlie Schmidt]

for the pumps, use a SPDT switch -single pole double throw
power in on common term, the other 2 go to light and pump
if you use toggle switches, and mount them so that up is "on" -or what ever direction you like- no need for lights

[CGOffroad]

I switched to aircraft grade toggles a few years ago on the advice of an FM prep guy. I haven't put anything other than these type toggles into my cars for a while. I have not had problems with toggles since.

Some people don't like the spade terminal wire ends. I have had the round eye wire end with small screw to loosen up enough times that I am OVER IT. It is simple for me to feel wire ends with spades and see if they have started loosening up.

For coil and fuel pump I use the double pole. That is one toggle to run both things, but on completely separate circuits.


https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=13911

[john f]

I prefer toggle switch with screw terminal. For me, toggle up is on, down is off, no light needed. Screw terminal with paint stick over
screw and terminal locks it in place, yet can be broken loose when needed. I believe in the "KISS" method. Just my $0.02.

john f

[mikey]

I use CARTEK push button switches. As long as you are using for switching the coil on a relay or as PDM input trigger they are perfect. Lowest profile and center illuminates red when on. Can use as positive switching trigger or on the ground wire - your choice.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...iABEgLPbvD_BwE

[mikey]

Also, to prevent attempting to run without fuel pump or water pump, simply feed terminal 87 or 30 of those relays from the ignition relay switched power side.

[dereklola]

I prefer toggle switch with screw terminal

Actually I'm told spade terminals provide better, more consistent contact than
screw terminals - as long as you don't buy the connecting part from a dollar store!

In 65 years of installing them on m/cycles, special stage rally cars and race cars
I've never had one come loose.

[chrisw52]

I use the screw terminals for my toggle switches. To prevent the screws from backing out I use a dab of liquid electrical tape which also provides a measure of protection against moisture.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...-400/100119178

[10rmotor]

I know you said you don't have much space behind the panel but I've used these for some time and they work great. Kinda expensive. Never had one die, unlike regular toggle switches.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/searc...h.php?s=potter

I use the W31 series.

[Rick Kirchner]

This is one area where I go with mil-spec and nothing else, only because so much of the stuff you get today is just crap. Spruce has a nifty honeywell switch but it's big on the backside. It's a "lift to on" or "lift to off" switch depending on mounting direction. I have a couple these in my box.

I use the klixon breakers for the rain light just because you don't want a harness fire if you get tapped in the back.

If you are near a place that has aviation salvage or surplus its worth spending hours coming through those places. Have some parts on my cars that came from aircraft in the 50s and early 60s that are just amazing stuff. God only knows what the government paid for them back in the day.

I had a really clumsy connection to my oil pump and one day I was walking through the back yard of G&J aircraft salvage in Ontario. Laying on the ground was a beautiful flared heavy wall stainless tube, AN-10 fittings, 90 deg bend on about a 3" radius. Would have probably cost me a hundred bucks to find the material and fabricate - cost me $7 and solved the connection problem perfectly.

[Hawke]

Just a question. Why does a race car need an ignition switch? Just one more thing that can fail and it adds weight. We have to run a battery isolation switch, so why not just use that, and hard wire the coil?

[mikey]

Just a question. Why does a race car need an ignition switch? Just one more thing that can fail and it adds weight. We have to run a battery isolation switch, so why not just use that, and hard wire the coil?

Separate main power and ignition switches allow cranking without firing.
And shut the engine off from the cockpit if you can’t reach the battery disconnect.

[Rick Kirchner]

great if you can reach the master when belted in

[Farrout48]

Does anyone use or know where to find a DPDT Toggle switch in an OFF/ON/ON configuration? I have one in my old WF1 and am trying to find a spare to have in the toolbox.

[DaveW]

Does anyone use or know where to find a DPDT Toggle switch in an OFF/ON/ON configuration? I have one in my old WF1 and am trying to find a spare to have in the toolbox.

Unless I'm not understanding what you want it to do, it seems to me that you'd just have to take a standard DPDT switch and jumper the 2 switched sides together...

Of course that would an ON-OFF-ON setup.

All the DPDT's I know about are all wired similarly with the source in the center and the switched poles on either side.

Now that I've read all the preceding posts I think this doesn't apply to this thread...sorry.

[10rmotor]

Just a question. Why does a race car need an ignition switch? Just one more thing that can fail and it adds weight. We have to run a battery isolation switch, so why not just use that, and hard wire the coil?

Where does it say we have to run a battery isolator? I've never run an isolator and have never had problems. My starter solenoid is right on top of the battery. I have a 20 amp switch at the rollbar, and another in series with that on the dash that functions as an ignition switch. That switch powers the fuel pump switch and the starter button, and any other ancillaries, as well as the ecu/ignition system.

[tgaluardi]

Also, check out Waytek, Inc for a good selection of electrical components.
www.waytekwire.com

[Rick Kirchner]

10r - Hawk is just talking about using the master for everything except the starter.

[J Leonard]

Does anyone use or know where to find a DPDT Toggle switch in an OFF/ON/ON configuration? I have one in my old WF1 and am trying to find a spare to have in the toolbox.

Carling switch at Grainger 10C581? Down for off, middle for run, up (momentary) for start with run still in contact. If you are near a Cummins engine dealer they were used for old school industrial engines. Off, On, Start with a second momentary switch for oil pressure bypass.

[RussMcB]

Carling switch at Grainger 10C581? Down for off, middle for run, up (momentary) for start with run still in contact. If you are near a Cummins engine dealer they were used for old school industrial engines. Off, On, Start with a second momentary switch for oil pressure bypass.

That sounds similar to the Longacre toggle I have been using, and have been happy with.

On my car it is a dash mounted "master" switch (not ignition), and the momentary On is for the starter motor.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...iABEgK5CPD_BwE

[10rmotor]

10r - Hawk is just talking about using the master for everything except the starter.

Fair enough, but I'm asking about why its thought that a "battery isolator" needs to be used? Does the GCR require it somewhere? I'm only asking because I've seen many a car wired with a hella or other manufacturer battery isolation switch on the rollbar that after a few years starts to take a crap and causes electrical problems. I can't tell you how many cars I've fixed by removing that piece of garbage component and wiring it correctly so that a good aircraft quality breaker switch can be used in its place to shut off the car in an emergency.

[Hawke]

Where does it say we have to run a battery isolator? I've never run an isolator and have never had problems. My starter solenoid is right on top of the battery. I have a 20 amp switch at the rollbar, and another in series with that on the dash that functions as an ignition switch. That switch powers the fuel pump switch and the starter button, and any other ancillaries, as well as the ecu/ignition system.

In this part of the world, it is a requirement that every race car has to have a battery isolator or master switch that is accessible by the driver. I think that its a good idea.

[10rmotor]

In this part of the world, it is a requirement that every race car has to have a battery isolator or master switch that is accessible by the driver. I think that its a good idea.

I agree that the driver can (and should) be able to shut the car off. But a switch that carries starter current, as well as any other circuits to make the car run (an isolator) that typically is located on the roll bar, isn't required.

[Rick Kirchner]

it seems in this discussion master=isolator. RVs for instance have both mechanical relay isolators and diode isolators. There are some devices in the waytek catalog that are considerably cheaper than the Cartek device that has been discussed here earlier. In fact they have the twist on/push off device that I bought for 30% of what I paid from Flaming River.

[RussMcB]

In fact they have the twist on/push off device that I bought for 30% of what I paid from Flaming River.

This one?

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/4450...ry-Disconnect/

I really like the idea of giving corner workers a Push Off kill switch. That's what I have (but Longacre, I think).

I am trying to think of a good, simple label to put next to it in case a corner worker is expecting the old key type switch. Probably just "Push Off".

[Rick Kirchner]

when I used the twist on push off switch I had a circular "push pff" sticker made to go around the hole.

The problem with all of these isolators is the trigger method. You need one that requires no power - grounding a pin instead of taking it to 12. The one from Waytek comes close - there are functions triggered by a ground but not the kill function.