123 ignition Legal

[CM/FFdriver]

Hello All,

I'm in the need to buy a new distributor and I saw this on the web page https://123ignitionusa.com/ and was thinking this would be a great distributor to use if it's legal to run in the Formula Ford class with the cross flow 1600 ford engine. Any input here would be great.

Or is there someone that rebuilds bosch distributors in the USA or info on buying new bosch distributor.

Ben

[TimH]

The website says it's "tuneable." That opens a huge can of worms for competition.

[Robert J. Alder]

RMVR changed their rules (aimed at the 123-type all electronic units) to allow this type distributor. But not all vintage organizations have done this. And I don't believe Monoposto Registry has allowed them. I have no idea about SCCA's rules. So, check with your racing organization first.

Too bad that they are not widely accepted. They are wonderfully engineered, albeit expensive, units. Before RMVR proposed and changed our rules we did side-by-side dyno testing comparing the 123 unit to a good Bosch unit to be sure there was absolutely no performance advantage. There was NONE. The only difference was the ease with which a timing and advance curve can be set up or changed. So much easier than dealing with internal dist. springs, etc. which, I understand to be sort of a black art. Plus you can program ZERO advance from, say, 0 - 500 rpm. The car starts before you can get your finger off the start button, even when cold!!! Cool.

RMVR Rules do not allow the use of the 123's third wire (yellow?) which can enable a cockpit switch to chose between two different curve set ups. That would be an "technological" advantage we did NOT want to enable. So we simply disallowed thje use of that feature.

If interested, here's how RMVR rules read re-FF distributors.
"(7.2.R)
Any manufacturer of a distributor may be used. Electronic trigger devices may be used with any distributor (in lieu of mechanical points). Distributors with "all electronic" programmable advance curves are allowed in lieu of mechanical advance mechanisms. Such distributors must work with induction coils. While spark advance curves may be programmable, changes cannot be made while a car is being driven in a race. No spark amplifiers, crank triggers, or capacitive discharge systems will be allowed for any ignition system."

[Roland V. Johnson]

I understand that the last time this was discussed with the SCCA the answer was no. It could open up a complete new can of worms with tuners trackside working to get that extra little advantage here and there. Basically another place for those who have money, to spend it. As it is now the advance curve is mostly just there to start the car. If you can make sure all the advance is in before, say 4000 RPM like the mechanical advance dist's are it probably would not be an advantage.................But then by who and how would that be enforced. The last time we discussed this with SVRA the answer was no!

[billtebbutt]

RMVR changed their rules (aimed at the 123-type all electronic units) to allow this type distributor. But not all vintage organizations have done this. And I don't believe Monoposto Registry has allowed them. I have no idea about SCCA's rules. So, check with your racing organization first.

Too bad that they are not widely accepted. They are wonderfully engineered, albeit expensive, units. Before RMVR proposed and changed our rules we did side-by-side dyno testing comparing the 123 unit to a good Bosch unit to be sure there was absolutely no performance advantage. There was NONE. The only difference was the ease with which a timing and advance curve can be set up or changed. So much easier than dealing with internal dist. springs, etc. which, I understand to be sort of a black art. Plus you can program ZERO advance from, say, 0 - 500 rpm. The car starts before you can get your finger off the start button, even when cold!!! Cool.

RMVR Rules do not allow the use of the 123's third wire (yellow?) which can enable a cockpit switch to chose between two different curve set ups. That would be an "technological" advantage we did NOT want to enable. So we simply disallowed thje use of that feature.

If interested, here's how RMVR rules read re-FF distributors.
"(7.2.R)
Any manufacturer of a distributor may be used. Electronic trigger devices may be used with any distributor (in lieu of mechanical points). Distributors with "all electronic" programmable advance curves are allowed in lieu of mechanical advance mechanisms. Such distributors must work with induction coils. While spark advance curves may be programmable, changes cannot be made while a car is being driven in a race. No spark amplifiers, crank triggers, or capacitive discharge systems will be allowed for any ignition system."

Years ago, I bought a FF project. The dizzy had a cable set up to a lever in the cockpit to adjust advance as desired. Neat idea.

cheers,
bt

[bassracer]

Ben
My final iteration of "new/reliable" distributor was to retrofit the Crane/FAST XR700 optical trigger inside the Pertronix Flame Thrower 2 distributor (D190500). About $300 in parts new. Can use any 3.0ohm Coil (I used a Epoxy Pertronix). I have pictures in another Pertronix thread here. Let me know if you need more specifics.

[John Robinson II]

Send it to Ivey.

[DanW]

r. Electrical Equipment Distributor: Distributors are unrestricted provided the original drive, location, and housing are retained. The distributor is defined as the component that triggers the LT current and distributes the HT current. The ignition timing may only be varied by vacuum and/or mechanical means. It is prohibited to use any other method or component to trigger, distribute, or time the ignition. The vacuum advance mechanism may be removed, and the distributor advance plate may be secured by soldering or welding or by suitable fasteners. The advance curve and advance springs are unrestricted. Generators/ Alternators: not required. All other electrical components are unrestricted.

So, the 123 ignition is not legal by the GCR. I was mistaken, Ben. Apologies.

Jay Ivey got fed up with 3rd world condensers, points and Pertronix units not surviving the break-in and dyno pulls. Jay designed and contract manufactured his own hall effect ignition distributor. He remanufactures the distributor assembly to as new specs.

I believe the cost of Jay's new dizzy is less than the 123 distributor. Give Cameron or Jay a call.

Regards,
Dan

[Buc01]

Hello All,

I'm in the need to buy a new distributor and I saw this on the web page https://123ignitionusa.com/ and was thinking this would be a great distributor to use if it's legal to run in the Formula Ford class with the cross flow 1600 ford engine. Any input here would be great.

Or is there someone that rebuilds bosch distributors in the USA or info on buying new bosch distributor.

Ben

Ben,

I am not sure of the 123 ignition, however I can 100% recommend the FAST XR700. I switched from points to the XR700 several years go and it was the best thing I ever did to my FC. Starts right up, rock solid performance, timing has not moved in 2 seasons of running, and stone cold reliable. Had Pertronx once. Had several problems, junked it.

Aaron

[CM/FFdriver]

Well thank you all it is to bad we can't use the 123

Distributor but understand.

I going to call Ivey tomorrow and find out this little detail, thank you DanW for the info, it's all good.

I love this stuff, the possibility of finding .100 of a sec by maybe just maybe of something. I'm still really new to all this FF stuff but want to go fast the right way.

Thank you All.

Ben

[Rick Iverson]

Ben,

I am not sure of the 123 ignition, however I can 100% recommend the FAST XR700. I switched from points to the XR700 several years go and it was the best thing I ever did to my FC. Starts right up, rock solid performance, timing has not moved in 2 seasons of running, and stone cold reliable. Had Pertronx once. Had several problems, junked it.

Aaron

Aaron, what dizzy?