Considering Buying new Honda conversion for 2001 Van Diemen

[John Nesbitt]

And we were doing so well up to post #26.

[t walgamuth]

I thought the comments were pretty courteous. It is ok to have a preference and state why.

[billtebbutt]

I hope I'm still racing in 40 years for Honda's 50th!

Ha! Dude, that was the joke. I'm almost 55!!!!

bt

[scott fairchild]

Ha! Dude, that was the joke. I'm almost 55!!!!

bt

Joke for me too... 37 years old. But maybe I can self identify as 70 to get social security, since we're bending numbers and all.

In all seriousness though, I don't think Honda is a bad thing especially for prep shops that have many different drivers renting the same equipment. A no brainer for those applications. I don't think parity is an issue either. BUT, if I were considering which to install in my car, I would first decide where I wanted to race it and the health of that/ those groups. One other thing I'll point out is that I'm not sure of a 150+ car event for Fits, or even a 45+ car field with 10 potential winners in their own cars. Also, the Kent is accepted worldwide, not so with the Fit. Doesn't make the Fit a bad choice, but those are objective facts.

Choose whatever gets the car on track the most, with whatever group you'd enjoy the most. Then make sure you do it.

[t walgamuth]

Joke for me too... 37 years old. But maybe I can self identify as 70 to get social security, since we're bending numbers and all.

In all seriousness though, I don't think Honda is a bad thing especially for prep shops that have many different drivers renting the same equipment. A no brainer for those applications. I don't think parity is an issue either. BUT, if I were considering which to install in my car, I would first decide where I wanted to race it and the health of that/ those groups. One other thing I'll point out is that I'm not sure of a 150+ car event for Fits, or even a 45+ car field with 10 potential winners in their own cars. Also, the Kent is accepted worldwide, not so with the Fit. Doesn't make the Fit a bad choice, but those are objective facts.

Choose whatever gets the car on track the most, with whatever group you'd enjoy the most. Then make sure you do it.

It is easier for some of us to imagine we are 70 than others. I will be for another three weeks.

[swiftdrivr]

Joke for me too... 37 years old. But maybe I can self identify as 70 to get social security, since we're bending numbers and all.

In all seriousness though, I don't think Honda is a bad thing especially for prep shops that have many different drivers renting the same equipment. A no brainer for those applications. I don't think parity is an issue either. BUT, if I were considering which to install in my car, I would first decide where I wanted to race it and the health of that/ those groups. One other thing I'll point out is that I'm not sure of a 150+ car event for Fits, or even a 45+ car field with 10 potential winners in their own cars.

.

I just got the opportunity to race with Right Coast, where they accept all cars, all motors, all tires. We had a good group at the 50th at Road Atlanta, [39 cars I think] and a lot of wheel-to-wheel, close racing. It should be noted that not only were several Hondas bested by Fords, and vice versa, but also several new cars were dusted by old cars driven by talented drivers. Heck, some guy with TREADS ran near the front! It is still a driver's class, and whats in the engine bay really doesn't make that much difference. Certainly not enough difference to fight over, in a sport that can't afford to drive away fellow racers. I wish Right Coast raced more in my tow-zone. I'd run with their mixed tires / motors / vintages "business-model" any time. The power plant shouldn't be a big deal. It's about driving and having fun.

[reidhazelton]

I find the divergent motivations for the FF group interesting. Some want to show up, race with a big bunch of cars of various configurations. While others want a pure, level playing field and go 10-tenths every lap for the win. Both are fine ways to go about it. Whatever makes ya smile.

The first seems to be the NASA/Vintage model. An all inclusive approach to make the biggest tent possible. The competition is based on driving your car with your friends, even if they are materially different in their configuration. If you have money, we will find a place for you to race.

The second is the SCCA/FRP model. A restrictive rule set, where winning is a main goal and parity matters.

Interestingly, SCCA offers both models (some of option 1 - FX/FS and perhaps even the STU/STO classes, but mostly option 2 - class based racing (FF/SM etc) but neither seems to be well regarded. Perhaps it's not what SCCA offers, but how it offers it? Or, maybe SCCA is trying to be everything to everyone?

It does seem the run-what-ya-brung oriented organizations are doing better. NASA, ChumpCar, Vintage are all growing. The organizations with tightly restricted rules are not.

[Keith Robinson]

I think after 9 years the dust has pretty much settled on the Ford/ Honda debate. I think for the most part, everybody is happy including the 14 people at the Runoffs and the 30 to 45 at the Vintage races.

Subtle !
The ELVF 50th was a 'once in a life time' race weekend (even from my position at the back of the pack) walking the paddock was worth the entry fee!
Vintage racing is booming on the West coast.

[swiftdrivr]

I find the divergent motivations for the FF group interesting. Some want to show up, race with a big bunch of cars of various configurations. While others want a pure, level playing field and go 10-tenths every lap for the win
.

oh, I think the Right Coast guys were 10-tenths every lap, alright. You should have seen it. I was at the 80s Runoffs at Road Atlanta, and it looked a whole lot like that, except that some of the old cars were being drafted by cars not made until much later. Pure is how you define it [especially in DC, but I digress] A FF Ford, FF Honda, or FF vintage/CF is still a Formula Ford [Formula F if you're a young-un]. One-class racing with someone to dice with and friends in the paddock is much more important to me than one-era racing. I'm okay with risking getting beat by a guy in old equipment running treads. Bring it on! I can see how the fast guys in Vintage may feel differently about having to compete with newer cars, but Right Coast and others seem to have no issues with that. FRP has all-spectrum / mygale, essentially all-Honda racing if you want, but that is for the fast and wealthy, with crews and engineers. I'm just out having fun, driving what for me, is 10-tenths [even when it doesn't look like it is].

[scott fairchild]

I just got the opportunity to race with Right Coast, where they accept all cars, all motors, all tires. We had a good group at the 50th at Road Atlanta, [39 cars I think] and a lot of wheel-to-wheel, close racing. It should be noted that not only were several Hondas bested by Fords, and vice versa, but also several new cars were dusted by old cars driven by talented drivers. Heck, some guy with TREADS ran near the front! It is still a driver's class, and whats in the engine bay really doesn't make that much difference. Certainly not enough difference to fight over, in a sport that can't afford to drive away fellow racers. I wish Right Coast raced more in my tow-zone. I'd run with their mixed tires / motors / vintages "business-model" any time. The power plant shouldn't be a big deal. It's about driving and having fun.

Formula Ford Duratec isn't allowed. Just pointing out more false advertising.

[swiftdrivr]

Formula Ford Duratec isn't allowed. Just pointing out more false advertising.

Wow! That seems to be reaching a looong way for something to complain about. Is there a glut of Duratecs sitting idle this side of the pond?

[scott fairchild]

Wow! That seems to be reaching a looong way for something to complain about. Is there a glut of Duratecs sitting idle this side of the pond?

ALL means ALL. Not a bunch of Fits either if it's a numbers thing

[Garey Guzman]

Wow! That seems to be reaching a looong way for something to complain about. Is there a glut of Duratecs sitting idle this side of the pond?

Some people want to be honest and helpful, some want to be ridiculous and unhelpful. Or maybe trying to be funny. IDK and IDC.

I met the original poster (Skip) at the ARRC and hopefully tried to encourage his interest so he can join us. It would be wonderful if someone had a complete car that has been sitting for a while that he could get for a reasonable price. Since he's actively trying, hopefully those of us who want to grow the FF community will try to help him join us!

[swiftdrivr]

Some people want to be honest and helpful, some want to be ridiculous and unhelpful. Or maybe trying to be funny. IDK and IDC.

I met the original poster (Skip) at the ARRC and hopefully tried to encourage his interest so he can join us. It would be wonderful if someone had a complete car that has been sitting for a while that he could get for a reasonable price. Since he's actively trying, hopefully those of us who want to grow the FF community will try to help him join us!

I thought the original poster had a car, and was trying to decide which way to go for the engine. If he hasn't made a purchase yet, there are 2 Swift DB-1s for sale at give-away prices right now, and I mean give-away prices. He could literally be running the Nats at Sebring in February if he wanted to. On the other hand, if he is trying to decide on which engine he wants, hopefully the first 26 or so posts will answer that question to the full extent possible. I thought they were the most balanced, well-considered, non-venomous evaluation of the choices available that I have seen since the Honda debued at the 40th. Multiple view points from multiple people with experience with both motors, several who own both motors, comments from fast guys, not-so-fast guys [me], dyno data, etc. Hopefully the squabbling from the "hurray for our team" people won't scare him off. At least in SARRC, I don't see the "team Honda vs Team Ford" as an issue at the track. It seems to be an APEX thread phenomenon, not an In-the-paddock problem. I once saw a guy with a "wheel-of-fortune" type spinner in his trailer. If you asked him how he finished, he'd give the wheel a spin. On each division of the circle was a different excuse, and when it stopped spinning, he'd read off his excuse for the day. Nowadays, he'd put "they had a [Honda / Ford] and I was stuck with a [Honda / Ford]" on one of the spokes. That is all this argument is good for, because beyond that, it's not good for anything else but running off new drivers. Fortunately, at least in SARRC, there are few who take it beyond the "excuse for today" level. [I personally stick with my "enthusiasm blinds me to my lack of talent" excuse, but now that I recall the "wheel-of-whine", I think I might steal his idea and make one for my trailer.]

Just remember the one important fact of racing: Talent usually ends up in front, but fun goes from the front of the grid all the way to the back.

[t walgamuth]

I'm slow too but I want my car to be fast!

[TimH]

I'm slow too but I want my car to be fast!

I prefer having an excuse.

[billtebbutt]

I prefer having an excuse.

Then you are only limited by your imagination

bt

[Messenger Racing]

I am starting my first conversion - it is a ground up rebuild on a VD 98 FC chassis. I have an early conversion on hand that is my primary 99 car (ex Rick Payne) but I am finding some differences between the two.

I would like to visit with anyone that has converted a later VD model recently. Please drop me a PM or email at muleshoeracer at yahoo dot com

Thanks,

Jay Messenger
8069467252 cell/text

[swiftdrivr]

Just a thought. You might get a better response if you started a separate thread. Lots of people out there with experience on this now.

[Kazis31]

What difference does it make what engine you have in the car as long as YOU like it and car kicks ass.
Ford old school.
Honda new school.
both good if properly maintained.

That simple. Period.

[alangbaker]

What difference does it make what engine you have in the car as long as YOU like it and car kicks ass.
Ford old school.
Honda new school.
both good if properly maintained.

That simple. Period.

You're being far too rational and reasonable!