what is this car

[Ed Womer]

I got this car when Dean and I went to Florida to pick up some cars and FV parts. The roll bar # means it was issued a log book in Central Florida region. I am interested in finding out more if possible. I guess it was a home built one off car. It came with no log book and the owner just got it given to him because he had a vee.

Ed

[pacratt]

Wow.
I'm wondering where the rear part of the frame is...??

Glenn

[Ed Womer]

Hi Glenn,
If you look at the side picture there is a piece of frame barely sticking out at the bottom of the chassis and I think the bottom of the engine case bolts there using the spot most use for a front motor mount. I am guessing that this chassis used the engine as a stressed member to hold the tranny to the chassis. It is possible that there were other bracing under the engine but if so it didn't come with the car.

The chassis is made from 2" tubing and is of an interesting design. I am just interested in finding out more about this if possible.

Ed

[problemchild]

The car is very reminisced of the Hammerhead. A few key things are different (roll bar shapes) but 90% has the same design principles. It is like a clone, or vice-versa. If it was not from Florida, I would wonder if it was the Tinman car (Hammerhead predecessor).

[Daryl DeArman]

The car is very reminisced of the Hammerhead. A few key things are different (roll bar shapes) but 90% has the same design principles. It is like a clone, or vice-versa. If it was not from Florida, I would wonder if it was the Tinman car (Hammerhead predecessor).

Ooops. Uh-oh.

[Ed Womer]

So Greg do you remember if the Hammerhead was a brazed chassis? I have noticed that this chassis has quite a few spots that the brazing is clearly visible but I haven't looked at most of the welds on the 2" tubing that the chassis is made from. So did the Hammerhead use the engine as a stressed member? I just don't remember closely looking at the car when you drove it.

Ed

[problemchild]

It is very similar. It had the firebottle within a wedge shaped nose frame. The engine mounting was exactly like that ..... the car broke in half once with Chris driving. The main hoop looks a little different. The Hammerhead hoop matched the fan shroud profile. But it is the front hoop that is totally different as the Hammerhead was really low (which made it difficult to fit in). If that is the Hammerhead, then someone added the front hoop and bracing. The original chassis was not brazed ..... probably not even mig ..... likely stick. It was pretty crude. Anything I did, was probably brazed. I have not seen it since 1989. Perhaps Bruce McIntosh has better pics or recalls more.

It looks different to me, but soooooo similar, that I have to think it was a copy or clone, or that the builder had some connection to Jim Fleishman. I have only seen pictures of the Tinman and don't know where it ended up. The Florida dis-connection works against that theory ..... but perhaps the car had a re-issued logbook. The Tinman would have been made in the early 80s, and Hammerhead mid 80s.

The Hammerhead had the fuel cell under the drivers legs. Jim made his own by gluing used ATL fuel cells (from planes) together. I recall that got replaced by something commercial later, but that was the only place where there was room, as the bottom of the drivers seat brought air to the engine.

[Rickydel]

Ed, Looks like it might be an Asp.

[jfleisc]

So Greg do you remember if the Hammerhead was a brazed chassis? I have noticed that this chassis has quite a few spots that the brazing is clearly visible but I haven't looked at most of the welds on the 2" tubing that the chassis is made from. So did the Hammerhead use the engine as a stressed member? I just don't remember closely looking at the car when you drove it.

Ed

Just spotted your year old thread. What would you like to know about Hammerhead?

Jim

[Ed Womer]

Hi Jim,

After showing the pictures to Bruce Macintosh he conformed that is is the second Hammerhead since it is like the one he had. It somehow managed to make its way to Florida and since Dean didn't want it I brought it home. Maybe another project to restore it but there are a lot of other things I want to do so it is hanging on the wall in the garage.

Did you have any additional bracing to tie the engine into the frame or was it just the lower front engine and the top engine tranny bolts? I didn't even try to get into it before I took the front beam off and hang it on the wall to free up floor space. It might be there for a while before I do anything with it. I am not certain it would meet current chassis construction methods.

Ed

[jfleisc]

Hi Jim,

After showing the pictures to Bruce Macintosh he conformed that is is the second Hammerhead since it is like the one he had. It somehow managed to make its way to Florida and since Dean didn't want it I brought it home. Maybe another project to restore it but there are a lot of other things I want to do so it is hanging on the wall in the garage.

Did you have any additional bracing to tie the engine into the frame or was it just the lower front engine and the top engine tranny bolts? I didn't even try to get into it before I took the front beam off and hang it on the wall to free up floor space. It might be there for a while before I do anything with it. I am not certain it would meet current chassis construction methods.

Ed

Ed,
There is a lot more to this car than almost anyone knows. As with many cars this old they have a tendency to get "bastardized" through the years (I have a 60 year old Corvette that has been "Bubba-ed" like you wouldn't believe). Take good pictures of the rear suspension and the front steering linkages (including spindle arms) and email them direct to me at jfleisc at AOL dot com and I'm sure I can give you some eye opening info. Strangely enough I don't have a lot of still pictures of it but plenty of video.

Jim

[Jnovak]

Looks very innovative! I like it.

I am very impressed with the aero package.

[problemchild]

Hey Jim,

You should put your old "Tinman at Bridgehampton with Iron Maiden soundtrack" video on YouTube.
It would be a hit!

[jfleisc]

Hey Jim,

You should put your old "Tinman at Bridgehampton with Iron Maiden soundtrack" video on YouTube.
It would be a hit!

Hey Greg;
Good to see you're still at it and hope you're in good health. Am I to understand that you're living in the US now?

Actually it was Lime Rock and Iron Butterfly. I've posted stuff on YouTube before with soundtracks only to get booted off due to possible copyright infringement. Wadaya gonna do?

Jim

[problemchild]

Hey Greg;
Good to see you're still at it and hope you're in good health. Am I to understand that you're living in the US now?

Actually it was Lime Rock and Iron Butterfly. I've posted stuff on YouTube before with soundtracks only to get booted off due to possible copyright infringement. Wadaya gonna do?

Jim

You are correct about the Iron Butterfly, but the one I have on video must be Bridgehampton, as it was not a track I was ever on.
I wonder if my HHS machine still works.

So was this a 2nd Hammerhead or the one I drove, that someone changed all the roll bars?

[jfleisc]

You are correct about the Iron Butterfly, but the one I have on video must be Bridgehampton, as it was not a track I was ever on.
I wonder if my HHS machine still works.

So was this a 2nd Hammerhead or the one I drove, that someone changed all the roll bars?

That video I made was all 8mm film (for those old enough to remember what that is). I converted it to VHS and I think DVD later. Don't even know if I can find it anymore.
I've only driven Bridgehampton about 3, maybe 4 times and never had a camera with me at the time. The guy I sold Tinman to sent me a picture of him driving there once. You had the one and only Hammerhead and after I sold it to you I quit racing cold turkey. I had high hopes for you as Dave Carr was a better engine builder than I could ever hope to be. Coupled with that chassis should have been an unbeatable combination.

[ralphtill]

Not to hijack your thread, but I remember racing against Jim and his Tinman many times in the northeast. Wow! That was many years ago. Ralph Till, black Zink C-4

[jfleisc]

Not to hijack your thread, but I remember racing against Jim and his Tinman many times in the northeast. Wow! That was many years ago. Ralph Till, black Zink C-4

Ahhh, another tough competitor from yesteryear (almost half a century). Hope you are well Ralph.

Jim

[WNYVeeRacer]

Not to hijack your thread, but I remember racing against Jim and his Tinman many times in the northeast. Wow! That was many years ago. Ralph Till, black Zink C-4

Well... since we're looking back ( WAYBACK)..... I gotta reminisce about racing with Bruce McIntosh at the Glen & elsewhere..... certainly the good old days.

Bruce,if you're member here ,PM me & l'll give you all the reasons to join the FV Challenge Cup & get back in a Vee
Dennis

[Jnovak]

I am very impressed with the aero package on this car. Comments?

[jfleisc]

I am very impressed with the aero package on this car. Comments?

The 'aero package' as you call it was a lot more complex than I even figured. Even though I built it from scratch the only time I ever drove it was in an initial test session at Lime Rock, CT. I found that after a certain speed the front cylinders would block air to the rear cylinders causing "one half" overheating. Adding a "lower lip" beneath the rear cylinders captured the "wave" and cured the problem. The frontal area was (as I calculated) about only 25 sq-in more than the minimum SCCA required frontal area diagram including the front shocks. All the air started an upward turn, from underneath, just ahead of the roll bar (all this determined by oil splotch testing). This put the "vacuum hole" behind the car much higher than the average streamlined Vee making it hard to draft off of (reports of nasty helmet buffeting by following cars). I thought about putting fairings on the rear axles but found that because of the upward airflow the fairings would have caused a minor amount of lift unless tilted up which would then be viewed as a 'wing'. There was actually a special "Pocono" aero package that included fairing of the front torsion tubes and added oil cooling that actually made a measurable difference. I only realize now that I don't have any pictures of it.
I might add that I found that the less amount of body work past the required part over the engine the better. Allowing the air to go where it wanted looked to produce less drag than forcing it to go a certain way.

Jim

[Stumpthumper]

Ed, not for nothing, but I only count two wheels which would make that a motorcycle.