ECU problems

[Bill Maisey]

Honda FITS

It’s happening again. The ECU is dumping the engine into the LIMP HOME mode. This happens on a warm day (like last weekend at Summit Point) about 12 or so laps into a race. I just finished my 5^th season in my Honda powered CF. Two years ago, I replaced my ECU after it developed the dreaded heat related shutdown. I had sent it to HPD (Honda Performance Development) for fault diagnosis and re-flashing. After several months of them not getting around to it, they sent me a new ECU at no cost. That was nice.

Based upon my experience, it appears that the ECU is good for 2-3 years before going Wonky. Annoying.

There is a rumor that Honda is developing an improved ECU. I called HPD to inquire about a replacement ECU. The guy answering the phone said there is no scheduled date for a new ECU and that I had to register on their Raceline before they would sell me anything. Not exactly the Pegasus model: order parts, pay, get parts. Over the years I have purchased 3 Fit kits from HPD. I would think that might exempt me from having to register and submit copies of multiple documents to order a highly special $1318.09 part?

Has anyone had a similar recent experience with an ECU?

[flagman]

Honda FITS

It’s happening again. The ECU is dumping the engine into the LIMP HOME mode. This happens on a warm day (like last weekend at Summit Point) about 12 or so laps into a race. I just finished my 5^th season in my Honda powered CF. Two years ago, I replaced my ECU after it developed the dreaded heat related shutdown. I had sent it to HPD (Honda Performance Development) for fault diagnosis and re-flashing. After several months of them not getting around to it, they sent me a new ECU at no cost. That was nice.

Based upon my experience, it appears that the ECU is good for 2-3 years before going Wonky. Annoying.

There is a rumor that Honda is developing an improved ECU. I called HPD to inquire about a replacement ECU. The guy answering the phone said there is no scheduled date for a new ECU and that I had to register on their Raceline before they would sell me anything. Not exactly the Pegasus model: order parts, pay, get parts. Over the years I have purchased 3 Fit kits from HPD. I would think that might exempt me from having to register and submit copies of multiple documents to order a highly special $1318.09 part?

Has anyone had a similar recent experience with an ECU?

I've experienced the same problem. HPD says SOL. Cant even test it. Had to buy a new one. They know of the problem and I've heard they have boiled it down to a poor quality supplier issue which caused them to switch supplies. Havnet heard if anyone is still having an issue.

[Raceworks]

Honda FITS

It’s happening again. The ECU is dumping the engine into the LIMP HOME mode. This happens on a warm day (like last weekend at Summit Point) about 12 or so laps into a race. I just finished my 5^th season in my Honda powered CF. Two years ago, I replaced my ECU after it developed the dreaded heat related shutdown. I had sent it to HPD (Honda Performance Development) for fault diagnosis and re-flashing. After several months of them not getting around to it, they sent me a new ECU at no cost. That was nice.

Based upon my experience, it appears that the ECU is good for 2-3 years before going Wonky. Annoying.

There is a rumor that Honda is developing an improved ECU. I called HPD to inquire about a replacement ECU. The guy answering the phone said there is no scheduled date for a new ECU and that I had to register on their Raceline before they would sell me anything. Not exactly the Pegasus model: order parts, pay, get parts. Over the years I have purchased 3 Fit kits from HPD. I would think that might exempt me from having to register and submit copies of multiple documents to order a highly special $1318.09 part?

Has anyone had a similar recent experience with an ECU?

I've had the same ECU's in both Spectrums since 2014 with no problems (knock on wood). Didn't have any ECU problems in either of the Van Deiemens.

The only ECU problem we had was in the Piper in 2011, and that was the result of a massive shunt that caused a chip to pop off the motherboard later on. In that case it shut off & just wouldn't start.

I've had them run really badly (such as if you're running 220F or higher water temp, a clogged fuel filter, or a bad fuel pump) but I've never experienced a "limp mode" situation. They just noticeably lose power & run badly.

Haven't done it myself but if you have a bad or loose engine ground it can cause all manner of problems and eventually the ECU will die. On mine there are 3 grounds: One that goes from the cabin harness to the chassis ground, one that goes to the cylinder head, and one that goes on the engine block.

[Bill Maisey]

Current SCCA Fastrack Tech Bulletin:

FF1. #27563 (John Whiteman) Honda Racing HPD low cost ECU proposal In FF, GCR section 9.1.1.B.14.p, add new sections and renumber as follows:

"3. The LC1 ECU supplied by HPD is permitted effective 3/1/2020 and must be used with a corresponding lambda sensor supplied by HPD. Implementation date is contingent on SCCA National office receiving necessary and sufficient quantities of support materials.

4. The LC1 ECU may be used with an LC1-specific chassis harness supplied by HPD or with a current chassis harness using an adapter supplied by HPD.

5. The current E1 ECU is no longer supported, but competitors may continue to use existing E1 ECUs provided that they are functioning as intended. The E1 ECU must remain sealed and unmodified."

[John Nesbitt]

I've experienced the same problem. HPD says SOL. Cant even test it. Had to buy a new one. They know of the problem and I've heard they have boiled it down to a poor quality supplier issue which caused them to switch supplies. Havnet heard if anyone is still having an issue.

Not the only such issue. There was a wiring harness problem observed this year that HPD blamed on 'supplier issue'.

[DanW]

Not the only such issue. There was a wiring harness problem observed this year that HPD blamed on 'supplier issue'.

Sounds like a clutch, brake and starter company located in Buellton, CA.... "It doesn't matter if it doesn't work straight out of the box. It's a racing part and there's no warranty..."

[Bill Maisey]

I called HPD yesterday inquiring about the availability of the new ECU. There has not been a peep on SCCA tech/Fastrack. James, who is in "sales", said he knew nothing but may have heard a rumor. He volunteered to go ask and call back. He called back and said the new ecu is still in development with no expected completion date. He did offer to sell me one of the old E1 models.

Having gone thru TWO E1's, I am resolved to wait. With the 2020 racing season start being delayed by that virus thing,. I may have time.

[Bill Maisey]

I called HPD yesterday inquiring about the availability of the new ECU. There has not been a peep on SCCA tech/Fastrack. James, who is in "sales", said he knew nothing but may have heard a rumor. He volunteered to go ask and call back. He called back and said the new ecu is still in development with no expected completion date. He did offer to sell me one of the old E1 models.

Having gone thru TWO E1's, I am resolved to wait. With the 2020 racing season start being delayed by that virus thing,. I may have time.

I asked SCCA road racing Tech guy Rick Harris about the status of the new ECU. He replied:

 Our contact at HPD is telling us the new ECU is targeted to be ready by June 01, 2020 at the earliest.
 
Rick

[Bill Maisey]

Talked with Honda today. With the virus related delays (track and staff availability for testing), the replacement ECU (along with an adapter cable for the chassis harness) WILL NOT be ready until January 2021.

I had to bite the bullet and order one of the old style ECUs ($1300)

[miberns]

My first Honda ECU failed in the 3rd race. HPD would only sell me a new one. I broke the seals on the old one & looked at it. i'm an electrical design engineer. What I saw was an indifferent PCB design for consumer electronics that would never be used in a production car. There were leaded electrolytic capacitors all over the place (1990s tech) with some glue to prevent them from vibrating off, which they likely do anyway. The capacitors are close enough to the CPU that there is no possible heat profile that would properly solder it without cooking them. So I looked under mine with a microscope and sure enough it was barely soldered. So I sprayed in some flux and heated it up with a rework tool and sure enough it dropped like to was really soldered. The thing works fine now. It has been loaned to several competitors when their ECUs crapped out. I've also had an engine harness fail 2 years ago. I was able to fix it and got a waiver for the "modification". Good thing because HPD still doesn't have them.

Honda is treating this like consumer electronics. Sell it for a couple years them move on to other things and screw anybody who wants to keep it working after that. My suggestion is that since parts for the Kent are are all available in stock and a lot cheaper than the Honda we ought to switch back. At least we can be sure not to miss races because we can't get parts.

Mike Bernstein

Talked with Honda today. With the virus related delays (track and staff availability for testing), the replacement ECU (along with an adapter cable for the chassis harness) WILL NOT be ready until January 2021.

I had to bite the bullet and order one of the old style ECUs ($1300)

[Bill Maisey]

Is there some place I might sent my old ECU for rework as you have described? I would like to have it as an emergency SPARE.

My first Honda ECU failed in the 3rd race. HPD would only sell me a new one. I broke the seals on the old one & looked at it. i'm an electrical design engineer. What I saw was an indifferent PCB design for consumer electronics that would never be used in a production car. There were leaded electrolytic capacitors all over the place (1990s tech) with some glue to prevent them from vibrating off, which they likely do anyway. The capacitors are close enough to the CPU that there is no possible heat profile that would properly solder it without cooking them. So I looked under mine with a microscope and sure enough it was barely soldered. So I sprayed in some flux and heated it up with a rework tool and sure enough it dropped like to was really soldered. The thing works fine now. It has been loaned to several competitors when their ECUs crapped out. I've also had an engine harness fail 2 years ago. I was able to fix it and got a waiver for the "modification". Good thing because HPD still doesn't have them.

Honda is treating this like consumer electronics. Sell it for a couple years them move on to other things and screw anybody who wants to keep it working after that. My suggestion is that since parts for the Kent are are all available in stock and a lot cheaper than the Honda we ought to switch back. At least we can be sure not to miss races because we can't get parts.

Mike Bernstein

[Roux]

https://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/

Bill,

they seem to fearlessly tackle all the less than great work done in production car electronics. I had my Chevy ABS module rebuilt by them 18 years ago, when they were just getting going. They knew what the issue was and how to remedy it and saved me over a grand at the time

Might be worth a try. they seem to have grown into a big company, so not sure how responsive they will be. Let us know.

Steve