SVRA Brickyard invitational

[jgaither]

Kim put a lot of effort into this race and was really fast on test day, practice and qually. All spoiled by unnecessary contact on lap 1. Not cool, especially for a vintage race. Too many full course cautions as a whole for the FF races. Hope RA is better. I had a blast at Indy.

What a bummer. I was having a great run until this happened, then it was a domino effect after that. Had to start 35th of 39 cars in the Sunday race. Only got 3 green flag laps in before another full course caution. Made it up to 12th over all but (8th outta the FF’s)
Ray Stephans got tangled with a green ford #27 (i think) that spun coming out of turn 11.
My race weekend consisted of very few laps but testing and Qualifying went pretty awesome.
Now lots of work to do to the Crossle and off to Watkins Glen. Hopefully I will see some of you all out there.

Kim Madrid

[Keith Robinson]

Start of Sundays 50th Reunion Race 2 from P11.

Boy oh boy i just missed that!

-Bob

https://www.facebook.com/rdetrick04/...57486292226064

What the heck was he thinking (#24) of course that assumes he is capable of thinking with a helmet on; ruins two other competitors races and doesn't finish himself!

[fzfpxm40]

I was the #3 Blue and Silver Swift that was taken out by #24 and his overly aggressive move in turn one. Yes, it did ruin my race. When the race was restarted I was following #24 at the tail of the field. He received the black flag on the restart lap and pulled into the pit lane. At this point the I was behind a red car that I did not see the number, who had passed the pit in, slowed down and proceeded to turn right and drive across the grass to pit lane. Not sure if he had an issue or just missed the pit in. By the time I got back on the front straight the entire field was completely off the front straight and well clear of turn 2. Basically, my race was over and I was just driving around trying to catch up to anyone to race.

I appreciate being able to see what caused my spin. I felt the tap from the rear but was not sure how it happened. Overall, I had a great experience running at Indy. I would hope that SVRA would impose some sort of penalty for that type of driving.

[Rick Kirchner]

In 2017 Tony was warned at Coronado that he needed to reign in the guys that were driving over their heads or someone will get hurt 2018 a Dr. got his neck fractured at an SVRA event the perpetrator was never parked, I rest my case.

Unless I'm wrong this was a 2017 incident at Pahrump. I raced against both of those guys on many occasions and Philippe was more aggressive than most - you could have momentum and be on your way by and he would chop you every time. I learned to give him a wide berth. I did not see the incident but after hearing descriptions it would not surprise me if he moved over abruptly to "protect" his position and initiated the contact. In vintage both share the responsibility but Phillippe was a long time HSR West/SVRA guy and he got hurt so the other guy got the penalty. The other guy is pretty aggressive too but he did get 13/13'd over the incident and went off to race in SCCA (and with him went 3 other guys in west coast big open wheel, which cuts most of our fields by a third).

[helipilot04]

I was the #3 Blue and Silver Swift that was taken out by #24 and his overly aggressive move in turn one. Yes, it did ruin my race. When the race was restarted I was following #24 at the tail of the field. He received the black flag on the restart lap and pulled into the pit lane. At this point the I was behind a red car that I did not see the number, who had passed the pit in, slowed down and proceeded to turn right and drive across the grass to pit lane. Not sure if he had an issue or just missed the pit in. By the time I got back on the front straight the entire field was completely off the front straight and well clear of turn 2. Basically, my race was over and I was just driving around trying to catch up to anyone to race.

I appreciate being able to see what caused my spin. I felt the tap from the rear but was not sure how it happened. Overall, I had a great experience running at Indy. I would hope that SVRA would impose some sort of penalty for that type of driving.

https://svra.com/wp-content/uploads/...nionRace-2.pdf

Here are the results from SVRA on their website.. they did DQ the #24 for Avoidable contact. Not that this corrects the wrongs or makes your race better, but at least they reacted to the issue at hand.

[helipilot04]

here is race Group 2a saturday race..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN5iAWJj5hw

bob

[Purple Frog]

re Saturday Group 2a video
During my years of working pro races standing next to one of the best starters in the business, I learned a lot about the starter's role in starting a good race. In 6 or 7 years of open wheel pro racing it was rare to see accidents in T1. (and it wasn't because pro drivers were any more gifted than regional drivers)
The starter should start the race as early as possible. If the front few rows are lined up throw the green. It really doesn't matter what is happening in row 5.

Unfortunately we see a lot of starters that like to "play games" with the field, and show how important they think they are.
The longer one holds off throwing the green the higher the chance of carnage by turn 1.

The start of that race that took out Kim was a good example of a bad start protocol. The first 3 or 4 rows were lined up good coming on to the front straight. Even the track announcer stated that. There should have been a quick green. But, sadly not. You could hear the track announcer say the starter was playing games. So by holding the green it got crazy at the front, and thus a mess. Shame shame.

[Bob Wright]

Spot on, Mike. The reality is the starter in many cases can't see much beyond the first 4 rows (I've been a starter) and has to rely on spotters telling him/her the field is in order (especially at tracks like VIR with a long straight and a bend just before S/F).

[Daryl DeArman]

The start of that race that took out Kim was a good example of a bad start protocol. The first 3 or 4 rows were lined up good coming on to the front straight. Even the track announcer stated that. There should have been a quick green. But, sadly not. You could hear the track announcer say the starter was playing games. So by holding the green it got crazy at the front, and thus a mess. Shame shame.

While that start may have been bad start protocol, it had nothing to do with the T3 incident between Kim and Ray.

[scorp997]

Thanks for posting the link. Nice to see it from the ‘other side’ and there were even a couple clips showing my car.

here is race Group 2a saturday race..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN5iAWJj5hw

bob

[jgaither]

I agree with Daryl. Ray hit her in 3 - way unnecessary. He took himself out a couple laps later and caused us to have quite a few laps behind pace car, so not a good showing for the class. He patched his car and was allowed to start on Sunday and ran over a nicely restored Merlyn (a garage mate) and though the Merlyn was in a tough spot after a spin, no one else hit him. Go figure.

While that start may have been bad start protocol, it had nothing to do with the T3 incident between Kim and Ray.

[helipilot04]

I agree with Daryl. Ray hit her in 3 - way unnecessary. He took himself out a couple laps later and caused us to have quite a few laps behind pace car, so not a good showing for the class. He patched his car and was allowed to start on Sunday and ran over a nicely restored Merlyn (a garage mate) and though the Merlyn was in a tough spot after a spin, no one else hit him. Go figure.

Not sure I totally agree with you on the T3 incident.. I do agree that the incident didn't need to happen, But I think the move to pass Two cars on that turn by diving to the apex was maybe a little ambitious. Maybe get one there and get the second at the end of the straight. She def had the pace to get them other places on that lap. Also the decision to go very deep and hug the curbing may have contributed to the out come. Maybe Ray didn't see the move till way late.
On the other hand that turn has tons of room, both on the way in and out, so Yes, Ray could have given a little more room to the move, prob not get passed since he had a head of steam going, and no contact would have been made. Much better outcome for sure.

After watching a lot of video from this weekend, both mine, IMS and others, running both at the middle of the pack and near the front, I am very surprised by the attempted moves and down right bad ideas that a good handful of drivers have during practice, qual and races. I understand all of us want to go to these events and place as high as we can. But we should always have the safety of our competitors and their cars in our decisions. Both passing and being passed. Everyone makes mistakes, yes. But we all need to be able to TRUST the other person to give us room so these things do not happen. They do not need to happen, were all spending way to much $$ to have our weekend ruined by the bad moves.

This was my first SVRA event. hopefully it will not be my last.

Cheers,
Bob Detrick
#4 CF

[Daryl DeArman]

Not sure I totally agree with you on the T3 incident.. I do agree that the incident didn't need to happen, But I think the move to pass Two cars on that turn by diving to the apex was maybe a little ambitious. Maybe get one there and get the second at the end of the straight. She def had the pace to get them other places on that lap. Also the decision to go very deep and hug the curbing may have contributed to the out come. Maybe Ray didn't see the move till way late.
On the other hand that turn has tons of room, both on the way in and out, so Yes, Ray could have given a little more room to the move, prob not get passed since he had a head of steam going, and no contact would have been made. Much better outcome for sure.

I agree it didn't need to happen and hindsight is 20/20. She had the pace on Ray during all P and Q sessions. They know each other well. It's not like she didn't know what to expect, but she's not one to be intimidated on the track. You have to know who will race you hard, who will race you soft, who will give you a 1/16" of an inch, and who will slam the door on you. A bit more patience and I'm confident she could have found a place to get by safely before L1 was completed.

[Roland V. Johnson]

While I did not agree with the grid assignments for the second Reunion race, I have to give SVRA a great thank you for a wonderful event. Indy is special ! I understand that Jeremy Treadway in a 81 (I think) Van Diemen (Club Ford) and Dan Cowdrey in a Titan Mk-6 Vintage Ford)put on a great show. I was a little busy coming from 25th to 16th in the Lotus 51 and did not have time to watch. Any video of that? All 5 of our cars had smiling drivers at the end.

[scorp997]

Let’s see if this link works.
Race 2a Saturday

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bcT-GdrHZbM&t=3s

[scorp997]

Roland, you ran a great race and I’m glad you decided to race in the end. Grid assignments changed a LOT from Saturday evening to Sunday morning. I left the track Saturday thinking I was 19th and came back seeing I was 27th! I would have been up on the podium with you if I didn’t have a shifter issue later in the race.

I have another video of the Reunion race 2, but it has a huge spin (brake bias) that I’m not proud of (except that I didn’t hit the wall and no one hit me!)

While I did not agree with the grid assignments for the second Reunion race, I have to give SVRA a great thank you for a wonderful event. Indy is special ! I understand that Jeremy Treadway in a 81 (I think) Van Diemen (Club Ford) and Dan Cowdrey in a Titan Mk-6 Vintage Ford)put on a great show. I was a little busy coming from 25th to 16th in the Lotus 51 and did not have time to watch. Any video of that? All 5 of our cars had smiling drivers at the end.

[Kim291]

I agree it didn't need to happen and hindsight is 20/20. She had the pace on Ray during all P and Q sessions. They know each other well. It's not like she didn't know what to expect, but she's not one to be intimidated on the track. You have to know who will race you hard, who will race you soft, who will give you a 1/16" of an inch, and who will slam the door on you. A bit more patience and I'm confident she could have found a place to get by safely before L1 was completed.

I agree with Daryl somewhat.....

I agree that I should have known what to expect from ray while trying to pass him. I drive with him on a regular basis here in CA and he is known as one of the aggressive drivers here. Like Daryl said "Know what to expect" and I do know now.

I do agree that I might have had the pace to get him at a later time but when I saw him going so high I never thought he was going to go all the way down to the curbing like that. (If you watch the video during his laps he was never close to the curbing in turn 3, except for when it was occupied.) When I did see him coming low I did try to check up and give him the corner. That is why his back tire got my front tire. If I would not have done that the outcome could have been much worst. Live and learn!

All in all I was having a great weekend and I love coming to Indy with SVRA and being part of this wonderful class, Formula Ford. This is the best class to race in.

[stonebridge20]

Roland, you ran a great race and I’m glad you decided to race in the end. Grid assignments changed a LOT from Saturday evening to Sunday morning. I left the track Saturday thinking I was 19th and came back seeing I was 27th! I would have been up on the podium with you if I didn’t have a shifter issue later in the race.

I have another video of the Reunion race 2, but it has a huge spin (brake bias) that I’m not proud of (except that I didn’t hit the wall and no one hit me!)

I'm not proud of myself almost every day. Post the video and I promise not to judge.

[Roland V. Johnson]

The fact that Treadway and Cowdrey were racing for the overall Formula Ford win was kind of incredible.

[stonebridge20]

Roland, I thought I saw two camera's on Dan's car in impound. Did he get any video of Sundays race?

[scorp997]

Looks like I found the issue with my ‘shift linkage’ problem in the Reunion Race 2.... it was what my crew suspected, a broken axle (that makes 2 for the weekend!)

my axles are built up of a solid splined section from a VW, a tubular section and a universal yoke. In this case the weld holding the solid section to the tube failed and allowed the solid section to spin inside the tube. It must have created a bit of heat and shrunk the tube, or friction welded it, since I did finish the race.

earlier in the week (last practice on Wednesday) I had a failure of the other axle at the weld to the yoke. Lowell Duncan was kind enough to air freight an axle to the track so I could continue. I did have reservations on the remaining axle (for good reasons).

New axles will will be a full solid shaft, not built up with tubes. If you have axles like this, check them!

[scorp997]

I'm not proud of myself almost every day. Post the video and I promise not to judge.

you might not judge, but others might!
Here is the video from the Reunion Race 2.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2uSj4B_GzA

[TimH]

Ok, here's my view of the Saturday 2a race. Not especially proud of my performance but not completely ashamed. I did have a prime seat to watch Roland for a while. I tried to be tailback to his fullback at the start but couldn't hang on.

Also had a great view of the cone hung up in Mark's rear suspension lap after lap after lap, until it popped out right in front of me. Seems like he went faster after that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MtZ...ature=youtu.be

[R. Pare]

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=86712&stc=1[/IMG]

Welded up can be done successfully, but the ends need to be either fishmouthed or at an angle so that most of the weld is in compression instead of shear.

[Ralph Z.]

Looks like I found the issue with my ‘shift linkage’ problem in the Reunion Race 2.... it was what my crew suspected, a broken axle (that makes 2 for the weekend!)

my axles are built up of a solid splined section from a VW, a tubular section and a universal yoke. In this case the weld holding the solid section to the tube failed and allowed the solid section to spin inside the tube. It must have created a bit of heat and shrunk the tube, or friction welded it, since I did finish the race.

earlier in the week (last practice on Wednesday) I had a failure of the other axle at the weld to the yoke. Lowell Duncan was kind enough to air freight an axle to the track so I could continue. I did have reservations on the remaining axle (for good reasons).

New axles will will be a full solid shaft, not built up with tubes. If you have axles like this, check them!

Might be worthwhile posting this in the General Discussion area where more folks would see it and benefit from your experience. Just an idea.

[mdwracer]

In reading this thread and looking at various viewpoints, I have come to my personal conclusion to make sure I drive within my skill set and give a bit more racing room to protect myself and fellow racers. In vintage racing, we should be doing this for the love of the cars and lasting friendships. Hopefully, we can all have a safe event at Road America with great memories.

Mike Winebrenner
1981 Crossle 45F (Blue #45)

[stonebridge20]

you might not judge, but others might!
Here is the video from the Reunion Race 2.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2uSj4B_GzA

Video unavailable

[scorp997]

N

Video unavailable

Try again.. YouTube settings and iPads don’t play well together

[stonebridge20]

Works now. Thanks !

[stonebridge20]

Sunday group 2B race


https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=494889417747723