Perpetual Starter Issue

[John LaRue]

With a properly charged battery (new) the starter will intermittently fail to turn over - it will click as though the solenoid is trying to activate. With sufficient coaxing the starter will turn over and start as normal.

Steps to rectify-

• Ran independent ground from the battery to starter housing - no change - removed.
• Ran independent positive cable from battery to starter lug - no change - removed.
• Jumped starter switch at the dash - no change - removed.
• Ran independent wire from starter switch to the solenoid wire at starter - no change - removed.
• Ran independent wire from battery (positive lug) to starter switch - no change - removed.
• Ran jump wire from solenoid wire to lug on starter - worked every time.
• Installed rebuilt starter - worked every time.

I went through this last year and went through several starters without resolving the problem. I suspect that the "fix" that I am currently operating under will be short lived - this was the norm last year.

Thoughts?

Thanks, John

[BeerBudgetRacing]

• Ran jump wire from solenoid wire to lug on starter - worked every time.

I had the wire from the solenoid to the starter fray inside the shielding. Very fine wire for the heavy current.
Worked cold, didn't work hot as the cover expanded and pulled the wire apart. Continuity looked ok (small number of strands made enough contact), but wouldn't turn the starter.

But if you've replaced the whole thing several times...

[John LaRue]

I had the wire from the solenoid to the starter fray inside the shielding. Very fine wire for the heavy current.
Worked cold, didn't work hot as the cover expanded and pulled the wire apart. Continuity looked ok (small number of strands made enough contact), but wouldn't turn the starter.

But if you've replaced the whole thing several times...

Thanks - What confuses me is that I can jump from the solenoid wire (spade) to the positive lug and the starter fired every time!

[David Ferguson]

Your last comment makes me think there isn't enough current getting to the solenoid. Things to try:

- Use a larger gauge wire (14 awg) from the battery positive through the starter switch to the spade on the solenoid.

- Replace the starter switch.

[DaveW]

^^^^

What seems to be happening is that the solenoid moves into contact (the click) but then because of not enough voltage (current) to the solenoid, the spring pulls it back just enough that it is no longer engaging the internal terminals that provide voltage (current) to the starter motor.

Over time, the solenoid contacts get burned from arcing, and eventually the internal resistance is high enough that the starter won't work.

[Pi_guy]

I would use a load tester to check cable and solenoid.
Then check with voltmeter for excessive voltage drops.

[bob darcey]

You didn't say what kind of starter you are using, but it sounds as if the solenoid is actuating but not closing the contact to make the starter spin. Not sure if this is possible with a Tilton, but if it's a Nippon-Denso based unit, try opening up the solenoid and cleaning the copper contacts and disc that feed current to the motor.

[Purple Frog]

I think both Daves' posts above are correct. Sounds like you are losing power in the circuit that runs from the battery through the switch and on to the solenoid.
I would rebuild that circuit with a bigger gauge wire, including a heavier duty switch.

[John LaRue]

Thanks everyone. When I ran the jumper from the starter (energizer) switch to the solenoid (energizer) I had run the same size wire as was in the harness. Same as for when I jumped from the battery to the switch. Taking heed of Dave & Dave's advice I ran the heavier gauge wire and viola! Everything is now properly wired with DR25 heat shrink and the good glue on terminals. I suppose it is possible there has been some degradation in the harness, but I am more inclined to believe the problem emanates from the starter(s). These are the Nippon Denso style and the original starter worked perfectly for just about 10 years until last spring when it just clicked. The brand new starter worked for a short while, but it too suffered the same fate. Both starters were checked out by Mark Bushman who gave them a good bill of health, but again I had the problem. I have since been informed by one of the top IMSA Dpi team engineers that the plant that built the solenoids was demolished and that the new units aren't quite as good, but are pretty much visually identical. It seems that the resistance in the starters as they now exist simply may require the heavier wire.

FWIW I will probably wear the damn starter and switch out now as I keep checking it to make sure it still works!

Cheers. John

[FVRacer21]

John,

i had a similar problem with my FV. I put a 30 amp relay by the starter. The starter button activated the relay which has a short path from the positive on starter to the solenoid. Made it with hd spade terminals so could easily revert back if relay failed.

Heavier wire on starter button circuit help, but the “pull in” amperage of the solenoid is high. Once in, the solenoid should switch to a “holding” mode, so you cannot rule out a bad solenoid.

ChrisZ

[John LaRue]

John,

i had a similar problem with my FV. I put a 30 amp relay by the starter. The starter button activated the relay which has a short path from the positive on starter to the solenoid. Made it with hd spade terminals so could easily revert back if relay failed.

Heavier wire on starter button circuit help, but the “pull in” amperage of the solenoid is high. Once in, the solenoid should switch to a “holding” mode, so you cannot rule out a bad solenoid.

ChrisZ

I tentatively wired a relay into the system and it worked, but I must have something mis-wired as the starter wouldn't shut off.

Thanks again!

John

[FVRacer21]

I tentatively wired a relay into the system and it worked, but I must have something mis-wired as the starter wouldn't shut off.

Thanks again!

John

Here is an article that talks about wiring the relay:

https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wired/...ired_03_01.htm

It also mentions making sure you have good grounds - might be worth a short ground strap on the starter to the frame.

Here is another: http://www.glenn-ring.com/tech/relay_starter.htm

Looks like you can even buy the kits on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fits-1967-1...kAAOSwHI5brajM

ChrisZ