1973 Winkelmann WDF-4 - Body Work Search

[Vne165]

Hi all,
I'm new here and I hope this is the right place to post this inquiry.

I've recently picked up a 1973 Winkelmann (Palliser) WDF-4 which is mechanically complete, but without bodywork and am looking for leads on mould availability, or a link to someone that can perhaps manufacture panels for me.

I have already emailed Marchant and Cox in the UK, but yet to hear back.
Meantime, I thought I'd try here as well.

Any suggestions gratefully accepted, thanks in advance.

Dave

Australia

[dleblanc]

Dave,
I have a '69 WDB2 FB and a '71 WDF3A FF. Welcome to the club!

Editing post to remove redundant recommendation for Marchant and Cox and adding something that might actually useful...

Look at the Winkelmann website (pallisercars.com). It has a registry listing all known cars and owners. The website is run by Locke, who should be able to put you in touch with other WDF4 owners. Not only can they point you to people with moulds, they will be valuable people to know as you work through your restoration. I'm guessing you could benefit from pics of existing/restored cars to see how others have built their cars.

BTW, I've found that the moulds that came with my cars resulted in parts that needed quite a bit of rework before the fiberglass parts fit on the car. That seems to be the norm - cars evolved over time and each one is a little different. Keep that in mind if you have someone build body parts for you.

Darrell

Hi all,
I'm new here and I hope this is the right place to post this inquiry.

I've recently picked up a 1973 Winkelmann (Palliser) WDF-4 which is mechanically complete, but without bodywork and am looking for leads on mould availability, or a link to someone that can perhaps manufacture panels for me.

I have already emailed Marchant and Cox in the UK, but yet to hear back.
Meantime, I thought I'd try here as well.

Any suggestions gratefully accepted, thanks in advance.

Dave

Australia

[Vne165]

Hi Darrell,
Thanks for welcoming me. It's very exciting to own a historical car and this one has an interesting past for sure with a couple of notable owners before me.

I did receive a response from Marchant & Cox overnight informing me that they do have molds for the WDF-2 & 3 cars, but I'm yet to fully understand the bodywork differences between them and the WDF-4. Probably not much I suspect, but i need to do more research.
I've also wondered whether a set of molds for the later WDB series cars might be an option for me?

We're willing (and hopefully capable enough) to fabricate plugs and molds ourselves, but it's a time consuming grind of a task. Would much rather be focusing on other areas of the cars restoration.

Cheers
Dave

[Thomas Wirtz]

Hello Dave,
If your are doing a rebuild on your Winkelmann WDF-4 and need a new body think about backdating it to a WDF-1
The most beautiful body of all the Wink formula fords. The molds are available her in the U.S. if you are interested I could track down the owner of the molds. Good luck. Tom

[bob darcey]

WDF-4 picture here:
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...mann-1972-WDF4

[Vne165]

Hello Dave,
If your are doing a rebuild on your Winkelmann WDF-4 and need a new body think about backdating it to a WDF-1
The most beautiful body of all the Wink formula fords. The molds are available her in the U.S. if you are interested I could track down the owner of the molds. Good luck. Tom

Hi Thomas - Thanks for the suggestion and your kind offer. I do strongly agree it is the prettiest of the lot! But our thoughts are that the restoration should be as close to original as we can make it - that's the goal anyway. Obviously we'll make safety/reliability/serviceability mods where they are logical, tasteful and within the rules for historical FF here in Aus.

Cheers
Dave

[Vne165]

WDF-4 picture here:
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...mann-1972-WDF4

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the link, I've stumbled across that one before. I'm curious though regards the bodywork and how it is removed from in between the main roll hoop and the two forward stays. It must split somewhere, as if it's like ours, the two members are not removable.

[Vne165]

Thanks to all for the responses so far. I thought I'd post some pictures of the car as it stands. It has been screwed with somewhat over the years, and at one stage was converted to side mounted radiators and fitted with a Van Dieman (I think) nose and top lid. It also seems to have incorrect front and rear roll hoop bracing.

Here's a general picture of the car as was when we took possession

[Vne165]

Engine bay

[Vne165]

Front corner

[Vne165]

Dave,
I have a '69 WDB2 FB and a '71 WDF3A FF. Welcome to the club!

Editing post to remove redundant recommendation for Marchant and Cox and adding something that might actually useful...

Look at the Winkelmann website (pallisercars.com). It has a registry listing all known cars and owners. The website is run by Locke, who should be able to put you in touch with other WDF4 owners. Not only can they point you to people with moulds, they will be valuable people to know as you work through your restoration. I'm guessing you could benefit from pics of existing/restored cars to see how others have built their cars.

BTW, I've found that the moulds that came with my cars resulted in parts that needed quite a bit of rework before the fiberglass parts fit on the car. That seems to be the norm - cars evolved over time and each one is a little different. Keep that in mind if you have someone build body parts for you.

Darrell

Thanks Darrell,
I have made contact with Locke and he has been supportive thus far. I've also tried to get in touch with a particular WDF-4 owner in Colorado, however no joy so far. His car appears in some great pictures that are easy to find from an event last year at Snowmass, and they are a fantastic go-by for what we'd like to achieve. I suspect the panels on his car are newly made, they look in such great shape.

You can see form the pictures I've just posted that we do have quite a task in front of us. I suspect we'll end up making panels ourselves, but before we make that decision the research into availability continues!

Cheers
Dave

[Vne165]

Finally, here are some scans of the car in it's original form, from the log book as delivered to Mr. Barry Green (of Indycar Team Green fame). Apologies for the quality - you can just make out it's general form.

[DanW]

It also seems to have incorrect front and rear roll hoop bracing.

Here's a general picture of the car as was when we took possession

If the car is from the US, the SCCA mandated forward roll hoop braces extending from 6" below the top of the rear hoop to the base of the dash hoop. They also mandated the forward roll hoop with forward bracing as well. The top of the driver's helmet had to clear a broomstick placed on top of both roll hoops There were some unfortunate incidents that made the safety improvements necessary. You should have a great car when you are done.

Best regards,
Dan

[Vne165]

Hi Dan,
Thanks for you comments. I suspect that the bars have been added in broad alignment with the SCCA principles of the time - I'm almost certain the car arrived here in kit form from the states without them. The bars were not a mandated requirement over here as far as I know. In any case, if we decide to retain them, they'll be renewed and re-designed to have removable pins so that the bodywork can be then be removed - I'm not against the idea of keeping them as I can easily imagine an intrusion into the cockpit area and it's not something I'd like to experience.

I'm also looking for advice/suggestions regards overhauling the Armstrong dampers. There doesn't seem to be much information I can find online.

Once again, thanks to all who've chipped in so far.

Dave

[Banger Rally Man]

Is this the bodywork you need ?

[Vne165]

Hi BRM,
thanks for your post. It certainly looks like it might be, can you expand on it's history and what plans you have for the body parts?
Is there an engine cover and a second side-pod?

Cheers
Dave

[Banger Rally Man]

I bought as part of a WDF4 turns out my chassis is a WDF1 but i am like you struggling to get that body, the one i have will fit but i have he whole thing in storage as my current project is a Lola 340. I will get the parts out at the weekend a photograph in detail. I have nose, top and both side pods, unfortunately no engine cover, also have old poor windscreen that a could use to trace a pattern.

i have a very good friend who owns Toniq sports cars with a good grp shop who could fettle what i have and take some moulds and lay up some panels for you. I will send photos on PM at weekend and we can take it from there.

BTW Locke at the register site is an amazing fountain of Palliser confirming from the peddle box on mine what chassis it is.

[Vne165]

Thanks again BRM,
Re an F1 body - have you tried Marchant & Cox - they did advise me recently they could supply bodywork for an F2/3, maybe they do an F1 too? Someone else suggested that I convert the F4 to an F1 as it's a much prettier car. I agree it is but want to stay true to it's original design.

Re Locke - I have been corresponding with him and agree that he's been a terrific help. Nice chap by all accounts.
Look forward to your PM with some more photos.

Cheers
Dave

[bob darcey]

One of our RMVR VFF members recently got a very nice WDF-1 body through Roy Jones in Fullerton, CA who has the molds.

roy1732@roadrunner.com

[Vne165]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the post, but we'd like to stick to the WDF4 panels at this point, although the WDF1 are much prettier.
Still looking and researching but yet to decide on a way forwards.

Cheers
Dave

[racingflyboy]

Thanks Darrell,
I have made contact with Locke and he has been supportive thus far. I've also tried to get in touch with a particular WDF-4 owner in Colorado, however no joy so far. His car appears in some great pictures that are easy to find from an event last year at Snowmass, and they are a fantastic go-by for what we'd like to achieve. I suspect the panels on his car are newly made, they look in such great shape.


Cheers
Dave

I know the guy in Colorado. He's a good guy and his WDF-4 is very nice. I don't think he's on Apex. If you PM me your email, I'll forward it to him and see if he'll contact you.

Steve

[Vne165]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for your post. I think that since the original post you quote was made I have managed to contact the gentleman concerned who has the initials MR. Hopefully that's the same fellow.

We haven't exchanged emails for a while, however he seemed very happy to assist last time we spoke.

As seems to be usual these days this particular project is being trumped by life matters at the moment.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to sink my teeth in soon.

Cheers

[racingflyboy]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for your post. I think that since the original post you quote was made I have managed to contact the gentleman concerned who has the initials MR. Hopefully that's the same fellow.

We haven't exchanged emails for a while, however he seemed very happy to assist last time we spoke.

As seems to be usual these days this particular project is being trumped by life matters at the moment.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to sink my teeth in soon.

Cheers

M.R. is the guy. Sorry life is getting in the way, it happens, best wishes with all that.

Steve