Build from scratch? Or build from used parts?

[Calugs]

Hi, my names Nik and I’m a 19 year old college student from the Flint, Michigan area! So basically I love the look of formula cars, I love open wheel and I love the raised nose. Currently I drive a Pontiac g8 gt, tuned and modded lightly, but I have a need for a race car. How much on the low end do you think it would cost to build either from scratch or used parts to build a f1000 that looks as close to f1(before the halo) as possible. I know I sounds like a scrub but I’m not to worried about racing as much as I am just having a track toy. (I’m in college, I don’t have the money to race these things). Also my final question is, how plausible is it to have these street legalized. If the designs need to be changed or anything like that, that will be okay as I don’t plan on racing it.

Thank you and and sorry for sounding/ being a noob

[Jamesbe]

If you could somehow make it road legal, it literally would be the worst thing to drive ever on the road.



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[Calugs]

[QUOTE=Jamesbe;578612]If you could somehow make it road legal, it literally would be the worst thing to drive ever on the road

yeah, I know it will be rough, I’d want to do little things to make it smoother but it would just be to take to the track or to car shows. Plus I’ve always wanted to build my own car and I feel this is a good option for my first try

[Marty Nygard]

Hi Nik,
About eight years ago I sold my homebuilt DSR. One day I noticed a box of leftover parts to fabricate uprights, suspension arms, etc. I decided to build a two seat version of the DSR for track days and a bit of street driving. About $11,000 later, I was mostly done so I tried to pursue the street lisc. The Missouri DOT said "oh no, we just changed the law and now you have to have a copy of the (engine donor Honda 1000) motorcycle's title". So, street was out unless I wanted to buy yet another engine.
How about track days? SCCA said no. BMW club said OK; that is until they saw the car and decided it would be too fast for their wealthy gentlemen drivers. Same response from the local Porsche club.
Anyway, sold the car for a big loss and now have a new hobby which is taking naps in the afternoon.
PM me your email address and I will send you a few pictures as well as all my PencilCAD drawings.
Good luck and have fun.
Marty

[Jnovak]

Hi Nik,
About eight years ago I sold my homebuilt DSR. One day I noticed a box of leftover parts to fabricate uprights, suspension arms, etc. I decided to build a two seat version of the DSR for track days and a bit of street driving. About $11,000 later, I was mostly done so I tried to pursue the street lisc. The Missouri DOT said "oh no, we just changed the law and now you have to have a copy of the (engine donor Honda 1000) motorcycle's title". So, street was out unless I wanted to buy yet another engine.
How about track days? SCCA said no. BMW club said OK; that is until they saw the car and decided it would be too fast for their wealthy gentlemen drivers. Same response from the local Porsche club.
Anyway, sold the car for a big loss and now have a new hobby which is taking naps in the afternoon.
PM me your email address and I will send you a few pictures as well as all my PencilCAD drawings.
Good luck and have fun.
Marty

listen to Marty!!!!

[S Lathrop]

listen to Marty!!!!

Marty and Jay are right.

All my street cars could tow a trailer for my race cars. Don't mix the street cars and race cars. My first race car was a FV in 1968 and my tow car was a 1966 Volvo 2 door sedan. The Volvo had the most comfortable seats in a car I could afford and I could sleep in the seats at a track if I had to.

Bottom line is that once you have been on the track, nothing on the street will match that. It will only frustrate you driving a race car on the streets. And you are asking for attention from the boys in blue.

[Jayeff]

If you want to learn about constructing a race car and get a real education on how they work, join your local college's Formula SAE club. There are lots of Michigan Universities that sponsor an SAE car and it will get you a lot of connections into the race car world, all for free. You will learn a lot and be with other enthusiasts your age as well.

[Bob L.]

Check into Formula SAE. If your school has a team (or not...find one that does, volunteer, change schools?) Great place to get some hands on design/build experience, make new contacts with similar interests, develop your ideas.... without having to dive deep into first project with little support. Build the bank a while longer, while learning...

That option didn't exist when I started...wish it had.

Heard horror stories with DMVs and homebuilds, managed to avoid when I did my Lotus 11 clone for road & track... Something like you want could be a huge issue for street...best to delay as others said..

Bob L.

[EACIII]

Most all but vintage Formula cars have a ground clearance of less then 2". I have spent time in Mich, no way you could drive something like that on the street of Mich. Would would bottom out and get high centered in about 2 miles.

Ed

[Marty Nygard]

Re: Ground Clearance -- My design ( https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/dsrf...ion-t7223.html ) was based on using FC sized slicks for track days and changing to street radials with a 2" greater rolling radius for street clearance. No suspension changes necessary.
Re: FSAE -- Generally nice people but a lot of oddball designs suitable only for low speed (i.e. autocross) use. Might be a good place to learn fabrication skills, however.
M

[holmberg]

It's always cheaper to buy an existing race car than to build one. In most cases, you can buy a used car for less than the cost of the parts to build it. There are some incredible deals on this web site. The least expensive classes for a used car are Formula V and Formula First--both around $10,000 for a nationally competitive car. Less for a regionally competitive car.

None of these cars are drive-able on the street. Something like a Spec Miata, Spec Boxster, or Spec E46 might be drive-able on the street (although uncomfortably), but will cost more than an FV or FST. Again, you can buy a used Spec Miata for less than you can build it yourself.


Greg

[Calugs]

Thanks to all, I appreciate the input!

[Calugs]

Hey guys I’m back with another terrible question!

so basically I want the cheapest car I can get or make, preferably some sort of diy because it sounds like a lot of fun. My main thing is I want it to look like a modern F1 car, I don’t care what it is I just wanna know would it be possible to put a “formula 1” body kit on a formula ford or a Vee. Maybe even build myself. I don’t need to follow SCCA regulations, I just want a basic track toy that looks like a formula 1 car. Is this possible and what do you think the final cost would be? (Remember, I don’t need bells and whistles)

thank tou guys for the help, sorry my lingo is probably incorrect

[Calugs]

Also, is there any possibly way I could drive some sort of formula car in Michigan? I’m only 19 but racing has always been an interest of mine so I was wondering if I could hop in a formula car someday!

Thanks and sorry again for asking dumb questions

[Calugs]

If I were to build a chassis would I be able to fit whatever “body kit” on there I would want or does the body have to to have a very specific frame?

[Bob L.]

Look for driving schools.. Russell, Barbers, others used to use formula cars. Don't know options today, but you can search.

Get both experience driving one, as well as useful instruction....up to speed quicker.

Bob L.

[LenFC11]

Everyone here has given you sound advice.. you keep ignoring what they are saying..

Your questions are rediculous. You keep asking the same question in a different way hoping someone will pat you on the back and tell you how smart you are and what a great idea you have. It will not happen

Why do you think this has not been done yet?? Because it's not feasible.

Sorry for being so blatant about it but this is the facts

[Calugs]

Everyone here has given you sound advice.. you keep ignoring what they are saying..

Your questions are rediculous. You keep asking the same question in a different way hoping someone will pat you on the back and tell you how smart you are and what a great idea you have. It will not happen

Why do you think this has not been done yet?? Because it's not feasible.

Sorry for being so blatant about it but this is the facts

Well it’s not impossible because all I want is a formula one style track toy, I don’t care about racing specs if it willl save me money, I don’t see how it’s any different then building a f1000.

Thanks for the the kind words tho!

[Calugs]

Thanks to everyone for the advice it means a lot. Sorry if I upset you with my dumb questions. I just think this would be a cool project because it’s never really been done!

[Garey Guzman]

I understand where you're coming from as I felt that way when I first saw an F1 race - pretty awesome!

I've been racing since 2002 off and on and started as crew for guys when I was in college. One guy let me drive his Alfa GTV at a track day and that really got me feeling the urge. I wanted to do exactly what you mentioned but found that:
a) there are no "body kits" available - can't just buy a Ferrari body and bolt it to an FV or FF chassis.
b) I don't know how to make molds for fiberglass and when I read about them, it was way harder than I thought it would be. It also requires a lot of specialty tools.
c) chassis design isn't simple and even if ultimate performance isn't the goal, a structurally unsound vehicle will be unsafe to you and others on the track, even on a track day. The urge to go faster and test the limits starts when we're about 2 years old!

What I ended up doing was:
a) continued to crew and learn about racing and race cars specific to my interest
b) finish school and got my degree
c) bought a house
d) bought a Swift DB1 roller and started going through it.
e) went to SCCA school for a license in a rented car
f) started racing in 2002

Anything is possible with enough money but to be clear, this is an expensive hobby. And having a good job, I can enjoy it more often!

My first suggestion would be to go to the next available event in one of the nearby tracks. Talk to the guys working on the cars you're most interested in. Look at the workmanship on those cars - it's usually pretty amazing.

Street formula cars have been done but it's expensive and impractical. And it depends on the state for legality and requirements. Even if I won the Lottery, knowing what I now know, I wouldn't bother with this. But that's me. If you really need to do it, get started! (Most of the comments are very reality-based and are most likely meant to help you not make an expensive mistake. Some of these guys have even done it and advice against since they can't undo what the time and money they spent on it)

Final decision is yours but you do have a WEALTH of experience suggesting another direction.

[phantomjock]

Thanks to everyone for the advice it means a lot. Sorry if I upset you with my dumb questions. I just think this would be a cool project because it’s never really been done!

It has been done - and if you hang-out at eBay long enough you'll see them being sold for "nickles on the dollar." If you feel you "need to build a car" there are plenty of opportunities, even some quick Ariel-Atom-like exoskeletons that at least give you 2 seats - you'd need for some drivers schools and may want for street driving.
Here is an eBay link - sorry it will perish after time:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Replic...5588:rk:9:pf:0

There won't be one on every block - but ought to be easier to license for the road!

You'll note the price of entry is not cheap - when you add in the donor car!


Cheers - Jim

[LJennings]

Purchase or find these books in your local library. They may not be formula car specific but will give you a starting point / basic idea of what all is involved in building a car.

https://www.amazon.com/Build-Motorcy...gateway&sr=8-6

https://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Sp...3D4ZJZKMGD55NZ

https://www.amazon.com/Race-Rally-Ca...s=books&sr=1-1

Good luck.

[JerryH]

If you simply must try building an open wheel car, build one for autocross.....not for racing and or street use.