Machine Screws

[Jim Garry]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for 10-32 machine screws with 100degree angle head. 1” long. These are easy to find in phillips head but in an allen head I’ve only found them at McMaster-Carr where they are going for over $5 EACH. Does anyone have a source for these at a somewhat reasonable cost? Only need 25 of them.

Thanks for any information.

[R. Pare]

Try an aircraft supplier - I believe that they are available as an NAS spec. (and I could be way wrong).

Why 100 degree?

[David Ferguson]

Yeah, I have to get these with phillips head:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...es/ms24693.php

[R. Pare]

Those are shown as phillips heads, not allen, unfortunately.

[Mondial]

Those are shown as phillips heads, not allen, unfortunately.

If these guys don't have them they do not exist. https://www.mcmaster.com/

[Jim Garry]

If these guys don't have them they do not exist. https://www.mcmaster.com/

They've got them. But the charge $5 per screw. Just hoping to find something less expensive.

[Rick Kirchner]

so I have to ask, why allen head? I've found that I'm always fiddling around for the right allen tool, and they round out far easier than phillips. Seems like if I'm interested in quick assembly/disassembly and durability, phillips is the way to go.

Now if I could easily find stuff in torx I'd switch in an instant, but it seems like those things will never catch on with anyone other than large volume manufacturers.

[Garey Guzman]

See link
https://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group...%3A11433964011

There was a shorter version but it said 82 degrees. I couldn't find a degree on the above link

[Rick Iverson]

Now if I could easily find stuff in torx I'd switch in an instant, but it seems like those things will never catch on with anyone other than large volume manufacturers.

Yep

[RussMcB]

I remember being in this same situation a few years ago. I think it was to use with Tinnerman washers. I remember being convinced (probably by folks here) that Phillips heads should work fine, maybe even better as long as you have the proper screwdriver.

I see plenty of Phillips heads screws sold by aircraft suppliers, so they must be good.

I am using Phillips head screws now and it hasn't been a problem, even underneath the car..

[Purple Frog]

$5 per screw doesn't seem bad.
But...I've been buying Porsche parts recently.

Go Phillips head if you need that angle.

[dereklola]

[QUOTE=RussMcB;575175]
I see plenty of Phillips heads screws sold by aircraft suppliers, so they must be good.
/QUOTE]

Phillips head screws were originally designed for aircraft use to avoid damaging thin lightweight aluminum panels by overtorquing. The shape of the recess is designed so that the tool "cams out" before overtorquing. Which is why unscrewing a Phillips can be frustrating if it is at all 'sticky'.

Probably why some people regard them as 'one time use' fasteners.
Particularly if a cheap cross-recess tool is used and not the correct Phillips one.

[Rick Brannon]

See if this what you’re after they mail order have used them locally since 1990 http://spenceraircraft.com/hardware/...nk-screws.html

[Jim Garry]

so I have to ask, why allen head? I've found that I'm always fiddling around for the right allen tool, and they round out far easier than phillips.

In my situation the countersunk bolt head will be facing down, holding a splitter onto the chassis. My arms will be almost straight out in order to wrap them around the splitter. I'll be holding the bolt head upside down with a phillips drive and turning the nut up top with a ratchet drive.

If the bolt was an allen head, I wouldn't have to apply much upside pressure to hold it in place against the torque of the ratchet wrench which will be turning a teflon lined nut. Allen is a much more positive grip than phillips.

But it looks like I'm going to be using phillips drive. Spending $100 on 18 itty bitty bolts goes against my challenged budget.

[jrh3]

Maybe use aircraft rivet on nut plates or nutserts. Now it's a one hand operation.

[T-Tom]

Would this make it any easier?

https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-9-4...a-760228167112

[DaveW]

These are made for Japanese screws, and have a much better engagement with Phillips screws than the usual US Phillips screwdriver.

I bought this set from Amazon: Bessel (Vessel) Ball Grip Difference and Screwdrivers Set No.220w-3.

Description:
This is a JIS (Japan Industry Standard) Screwdriver multibit set. Only JIS tools should be used on Japanese vehicles, because they do NOT use Phillips head screws. A Phillips screwdriver will strip and ruin a JIS screw head, whereas it is safe to use a JIS screwdriver on Phillips screw heads. Vessel is renowned for the quality of their tools.

Amazon link :
https://smile.amazon.com/Bessel-Vess...el+screwdriver

I save them for critical applications and removing Phillips screws so I don't strip the engagement slots.

There are a variety of these on Amazon for reasonable prices.

[Rick Kirchner]

In every single application where I have a bolt/screw going in from the bottom I replaced the top nut with a floating nut plate. When I got the car there were six of them holding the nose on, in nearly inaccessible locations inside the nose box and under the MCs, or on the other side of the bulkhead in front of the pedals.

Major ass-pain reliever.

Had the same arrangement to hold the ending edge of the diffuser on, until I found these nifty nylock countersunk female screws that a male screw can go in from the top. They serve as alignment pins AND the bottom nut. Wish I had a part number for everybody, but I found them at an aircraft surplus store. No idea how much uncle sam paid for them at one time, but I bet it wasn't cheap. I bought three times as many as i need.....

I wonder if you can make a JIC driver out of a phillips by grinding a smidge off the tip?

[DaveW]

...I wonder if you can make a JIC driver out of a phillips by grinding a smidge off the tip?

I've tried that - marginal improvement at best.

[Jim Garry]

Floating nut plates are great except in my case we're dealing with airflow under a splitter. Thus the need for countersunk screws.

[Fred Michael]

Floating nut plates are great except in my case we're dealing with airflow under a splitter. Thus the need for countersunk screws.

Putting the nut plate on top of the splitter will not hinder airlfow

[Fred Michael]

All the 100* stuff we use on the Indycars and Indy Lights are Torq Sets. Work great and are easy to come by but they do require the proper tool, sort of an offset phillips.

[J Leonard]

Or reed prince or frearson drivers.

[DaveW]

In every single application where I have a bolt/screw going in from the bottom I replaced the top nut with a floating nut plate. When I got the car there were six of them holding the nose on, in nearly inaccessible locations inside the nose box and under the MCs, or on the other side of the bulkhead in front of the pedals.

Major ass-pain reliever.

Had the same arrangement to hold the ending edge of the diffuser on, until I found these nifty nylock countersunk female screws that a male screw can go in from the top. They serve as alignment pins AND the bottom nut...

Link: http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraf...two-lug-an366-

[Jim Garry]

Purchased. Thanks Dave!

These are made for Japanese screws, and have a much better engagement with Phillips screws than the usual US Phillips screwdriver.

I bought this set from Amazon: Bessel (Vessel) Ball Grip Difference and Screwdrivers Set No.220w-3.

Description:
This is a JIS (Japan Industry Standard) Screwdriver multibit set. Only JIS tools should be used on Japanese vehicles, because they do NOT use Phillips head screws. A Phillips screwdriver will strip and ruin a JIS screw head, whereas it is safe to use a JIS screwdriver on Phillips screw heads. Vessel is renowned for the quality of their tools.

Amazon link :
https://smile.amazon.com/Bessel-Vess...el+screwdriver

I save them for critical applications and removing Phillips screws so I don't strip the engagement slots.

There are a variety of these on Amazon for reasonable prices.

[Garey Guzman]

I get the floating, two-lug as shown here:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...nchornuts4.php

[DaveW]

I get the floating, two-lug as shown here:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...nchornuts4.php

Much better price, also, and floating. I've used those, but the ones I linked previously have the Nyloc setup.

[Garey Guzman]

Much better price, also, and floating. I've used those, but the ones I linked previously have the Nyloc setup.

I searched the MS type and assuming the need is for 10-32 (3N), here are some self-locking:
https://catalog.monroeaerospace.com/...s-1/ms21075-3n

[Charles Warner]

CAM LOC

Quarter turn, available in Philips or flathead, fit flush and are quick to assemble/disassemble. Just another option.

[Charles Warner]

Looking at Dave's screwdriver suggestion Amazon offered these.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Cheap low profile fastener holders in all styles.

Thanks Dave.

[David Ferguson]

All the 100* stuff we use on the Indycars and Indy Lights are Torq Sets. Work great and are easy to come by but they do require the proper tool, sort of an offset phillips.

Here is a link to the 100 degree TorqSet fastners:

https://www.k-rfastenersinc.com/home.php?cat=3109

[jrh3]

Aircraft cad plated steel screws work well for my car and plane. Use a magnetic screwdriver and life is much easier.
stainless tends to be softer and nonmagnetic. A little valve grinding compound will help with the stuck ones.

we can open a whole new topic with riveting to the panel.
countersinks, pull rivets, solid soft rivets, squeezer, bucked, etc

[DaveW]

Looking at Dave's screwdriver suggestion Amazon offered these.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Cheap low profile fastener holders in all styles.

Thanks Dave.

Nice! That's in my cart for my next order.

[Rick Kirchner]

Well, THIS was actually the unknown little thing I was taking about above - a countersunk sleeve with female threads, a nylon insert, and the ability to hold it with a specially radiused tool (I ground down an old dzus fastener tool) - or a thin rubber washer or tiny o-ring would keep it from rotating as well. it goes thru the diffuser and the floor the diffuser mounts to from the bottom, serves as a pin, and the #6 screw and washer just has to keep it from falling out.

I'd feel better it were a #10 or 1/4, but this is what was available. somebody with a CNC could probably crank out a slightly larger variant pretty easy, but making them on the lathe would just take a long time.

Never seen them before, and there was no part number on the bin.

[Jim Garry]

Like a T-nut?

[Rick Kirchner]

More or less a highly specialized T-nut. I suppose if one wanted to dispense with the countersink, you could spin them out of bar stock with a simple flat cutter and a parting tool to a specific length. With a hex broach you could bore a hole, broach it to about 1/4" depth, and then use a nylock as the threaded insert. Could even drill the head for a two-pin spanner.

[Charles Warner]

Nice! That's in my cart for my next order.

I just received my 4 sets of those offset screw holders (ain't Amazon Prime great!) and the quality is better than I expected. Well-designed with clear markings. I think you might be able to attach a small magnet to the back and it would magnetize the bit.

On Edit: I tried a small (.500" round) magnet on the back and it magnetizes the bit nicely. Magnets available from (you guessed it) Amazon - 20 for about $9.00.

[Rick Iverson]

Why 100 degree?

RP, aren’t the run of the mill, garden variety 10-32 Holo-Krome countersunk screws found on these cars 100 degree heads?

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I just received my 4 sets of those offset screw holders (ain't Amazon Prime great!) and the quality is better than I expected. Well-designed with clear markings. I think you might be able to attach a small magnet to the back and it would magnetize the bit.

On Edit: I tried a small (.500" round) magnet on the back and it magnetizes the bit nicely. Magnets available from (you guessed it) Amazon - 20 for about $9.00.

My first use spun the bit in the handle. They are pressed in.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

RP, aren’t the run of the mill, garden variety 10-32 Holo-Krome countersunk screws found on these cars 100 degree heads?

82 has been my experience. Belly pan rivets on the other hand....