Recommended belts
My belts that came with the car expired at the New Year. Does anyone have recommendations for new belts that work well with a HANS device in our FEs? I believe my current expired set were the 2"/3" 6 point configuration. The quick searching I did also pulled up different mounting tab metals (alum, and steel) and designs (Carabiner vs tab). Does anyone have any comments on which way I should go? Also where do you get them from? My current Sparcos don't appear to be available anymore.
I bought sabelt from primus last year. Adjustable lap belt. I believe they are the A622 model
https://www.primusracingparts.com/Seatbelts_c_66.html
Crow is also popular and can make anything you want.
Go with the mounts you already have.
Do a search for the discussion of the 2 v 3 inch belts and decide for yourself. No need to rehash that here.
This is how my expired belts were attached. The lap and anti-sub belts attach to the frame with one bolt per side through their snap hook ends. The shoulder belts are attached to the frame with washers acting as spacers to keep the mount from pinching. I noticed another lap belt mount farther back, and I am wondering if using separate frame mounting points for the lap and anti-sub belts is better. That and the snap hook ends are kind of useless when a bolt is squashing them down. Does anyone use those eyelet style mounts for the lap and anti-sub attachment?
I am thinking about these two belts so far, but am not sure on the best mounting method.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...SAB-CCS622F-UN
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...yABEgItevD_BwE
Last edited by toolo4sno; 07.14.19 at 1:18 PM.
Mount those ends in double shear. Get rid of those extra washers and use the proper length AN bolt/nut combination.
save your money .we have used both.Originally Posted by toolo4sno
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
The shoulder mounting looks too wide for a HANS if that is what you are using.
I don't trust anything the previous two owners did. I think the previous owner pinched those tabs together too much as I couldn't force the belt bracket in there by hand. I have since used a mallet to convince it to go in there and it's fits nicely. My new shoulder belts will be double shear mounted.
Any belts that you do recommend that haven't been covered already?
I prefer the style of belts where the anti-sub is stitched into the cam lock mechanism versus the looping strap style. Anyone have comments on one style versus the other?
How about the lap and anti-sub mounting? Do I use the one mounting point or separate them?
Last edited by toolo4sno; 02.13.19 at 4:40 PM.
Hi,
I've got a couple of FEs and have run at least one since 2003, so I've been through a few sets of harnesses of different brands. The only ones I will buy now are the Schroth Formula harnesses. You mentioned you don't like the sub straps that go through loops (but I really don't understand why...) - these are designed that way as with essentially every harness designed for formula car applications, since the anchor points in formula cars are usually far aft of that in tin-tops, etc. To answer one of your questions, the sub straps in an FE are typically anchored to the points a few inches forward of the laps belt anchor points.
Here's a link to the HMS Motorsports page with the Schroth harness: https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/products/Formula
Definitely order the pull up design. Far easier to get belted in whether on your own or with help. Very handy if anyone else (like a skinnier coach!) drives your car. And the Schroth are the only belts that have an adjustable section outboard of the pull up adjuster, which allows them to work with a proper foam or bead seat. I have not been able to find any other harnesses that will work - OMP, Sparco, Sabelt all have about a 2-inch long fixed section outboard of the adjuster, and the adjuster ends up buried in the seat pass-through and completely useless.
They are on the pricey end ($455), but worth every penny IMO. I have 3 sets on the way this week to get all the FEs in my shop through annual tech. If you go with them, call Billy at HMS in Mooresville, NC. Their container with a dozen sets just cleared Customs on Monday, but he said they were going fast!
These are 2-inch shoulder and lap belts for use with HNR. And on the shoulder harness mounting, they DEFINITELY need to be closer together. Per the HANS website, the anchor points for the shoulder harnesses should be 3-4" apart. Steve Stadel of One Formula Racing (Enterprises CSR and he's on Apex as sstadel I believe) makes a nice mount that attaches to those OEM points you are using now, and allows you to anchor belts closer together. I have those in my cars too.
Finally, now that I think it through, I am removing one set of Schroth harnesses (only difference is the 2" shoulder harnesses turn to 3" below the HANS for some silly reason) that are good through 2019. They are a nice dirty red colorIf you would like to try them, PM me with an address and I'll ship them to you gratis.
Best regards,
Eric
If you don't think too good, don't think too much.
- Ted Williams
I will have to look into the updated shoulder mount.Hi,
I've got a couple of FEs and have run at least one since 2003, so I've been through a few sets of harnesses of different brands. The only ones I will buy now are the Schroth Formula harnesses. You mentioned you don't like the sub straps that go through loops (but I really don't understand why...) - these are designed that way as with essentially every harness designed for formula car applications, since the anchor points in formula cars are usually far aft of that in tin-tops, etc. To answer one of your questions, the sub straps in an FE are typically anchored to the points a few inches forward of the laps belt anchor points.
Here's a link to the HMS Motorsports page with the Schroth harness: https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/products/Formula
Definitely order the pull up design. Far easier to get belted in whether on your own or with help. Very handy if anyone else (like a skinnier coach!) drives your car. And the Schroth are the only belts that have an adjustable section outboard of the pull up adjuster, which allows them to work with a proper foam or bead seat. I have not been able to find any other harnesses that will work - OMP, Sparco, Sabelt all have about a 2-inch long fixed section outboard of the adjuster, and the adjuster ends up buried in the seat pass-through and completely useless.
They are on the pricey end ($455), but worth every penny IMO. I have 3 sets on the way this week to get all the FEs in my shop through annual tech. If you go with them, call Billy at HMS in Mooresville, NC. Their container with a dozen sets just cleared Customs on Monday, but he said they were going fast!
These are 2-inch shoulder and lap belts for use with HNR. And on the shoulder harness mounting, they DEFINITELY need to be closer together. Per the HANS website, the anchor points for the shoulder harnesses should be 3-4" apart. Steve Stadel of One Formula Racing (Enterprises CSR and he's on Apex as sstadel I believe) makes a nice mount that attaches to those OEM points you are using now, and allows you to anchor belts closer together. I have those in my cars too.
Finally, now that I think it through, I am removing one set of Schroth harnesses (only difference is the 2" shoulder harnesses turn to 3" below the HANS for some silly reason) that are good through 2019. They are a nice dirty red color
Best regards,
Eric
The main reasons I don't like the anti-sub looping strap style are because it seemed like more things that I have to do before setting off and it also seemed like something that could get missed. If the anti-subs are directly mounted to the cam then I can't screw that part up. It also looks very cumbersome.
I think I will hit you up on your harness offer. I can at least check out the merits of that style harness and judge for myself.
You won't forget. Reason I say this is because without the loops done up when you pull the shoulder straps your lap belt will rise up. Pretty noticeable as it's usually uncomfortable
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In my experience the loop style sub-straps are soooo much more comfortable than other styles when the harnesses are properly cinched.
Yes. When I said uncomfortable, that was if your forgot to attach them, which was his concern.
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You seem worried about forgetting to do something as you get in the car. Don't let that be a big concern. Develop a routine in the garage and follow it religiously. It is similar concept to practicing how to get out of the car in an emergency. Both need a routine and practice.
Start with getting everything laid out - helmet, HANS, gloves, arm restraints, ear plugs, glasses, etc. Figure out if you need to get your belts buckled up before you put your helmet on (I do). Can you reach the master switch once you are in the car and buckled up? Develop the sequence for doing everything in the proper order. Write it down if you need to.
If you want, send me an email farrout48 <at> gmail.com and I will send you my sequence as a start.
Craig Farr
Stohr WF1 P2
Some people shouldn’t be working on their own cars
I hear you on the routine. I was a little worried that a strap would be missed since I sort of have a routine going with the other belt style, but I'll figure it out and come up with a new one.
Update:
I can't seem to get photo attachments to work anymore or I would have had this up sooner. That said, I got the belts that Eric Cruz provided (thanks again) mounted and a plate added to the shoulder mounting to get a more HANs friendly gap. The lap and anti-sub belts now are mounted separately and everything is looking as it should.
I have gotten a little more used to that style of belt and am a lot more comfortable with it.
Here are some photos of the new belts.
After 3 track days with the new belts I am totally behind this style. It's not too hard for my pit crew to learn; even when adding in arm restraints. I can take out my seat with out removing the lap belts. For the most part this belt was comfortable to use. I just need to make sure I find a shoulder belt with a straight mount to the chassis. I need to clear the metal plate that Comprent made me for HANs friendly shoulder belt placement. I also trimmed my seat a little more to be able to use both side mounts for the lap and anti-sub belts.
Or, maybe they can find a website with hundreds of knowledgeable people that are prepared to share their knowledge and help them to learn how to prep a car for safety and performance. You know................ like ApexSpeed?
best,
bt
What exactly is that plate doing? Just raising the belt a little?
The plate puts the shoulder mounts in the 3-4" apart range for HANs friendly usage.
Weird looks like mine looks stock, never noticed any issues. I'll have to double check mine to compare.
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You won't necessarily have any "issues", but it appears most HANs devices want the shoulder mounts to be no more than 4" apart.
I see, yes mine are about 7-inches apart. I see the difference now. Looking at HANS specifications it says "Typically 3-4-inches" But says if the seat is close to the mount point the belts should be equal to or 1-inch less than the HANS collar. Looks like I'm good there.
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