Data logger - Dash?

[jahillsr]

Hi, I am interested in learning about data logger's or dash's such as VBox and AIM etc... that Vee guys are using and finding helpful.

I realize it also begs the question of how much data is helpful of course. So thinking from a new guys perspective and wanting at least a +/- on lap times if not a full blown dual camera system, what is working for others?

Feel free to contact me privately if you prefer to share your ideas that way.

TIA, Jim

[mikey]

AIM is very easy to learn and work with. Relatively affordable too. If you’re mostly just interested in lap times and +/- differential then you might get by with just an AIM SOLO. If you want to monitor engine and other sensors and get more into vehicle dynamics then look at their MXL or MXG products.
The predictive lap times with differential are a great in car tool for instant feedback as you try to learn what makes for a faster lap.

[Matt Clark]

One of the things that is most helpful, I think, of the datalogging aspects is the track mapping & speed traces. Obviously all system vary somewhat, but being able to see where you brake or pick up the throttle & how it relates to your speed is huge in FV. What you may not think is that big of a deal, can translate into a larger difference at the end of the straightaway compared to other classes.
I run a GoPro separate from the data system, and that is a huge help just to watch lines & such. I would imagine something like the SmartyCam tied to a data overlay would definitely help more yet.

[Farrout48]

Give Dave & Ellen Ferguson, Veracity Racing Data, a call. 805-238-1699 They are extremely knowledgeable, support their products, and are very helpful. You cannot go wrong with them.

[jahillsr]

Thank you for responding. I will look into those you mentioned. I think the predictive is a must for me. I just don't have a feel for my speed yet when I am by my self on the track.

AIM is very easy to learn and work with. Relatively affordable too. If you’re mostly just interested in lap times and +/- differential then you might get by with just an AIM SOLO. If you want to monitor engine and other sensors and get more into vehicle dynamics then look at their MXL or MXG products.
The predictive lap times with differential are a great in car tool for instant feedback as you try to learn what makes for a faster lap.

[jahillsr]

I am thinking this too. I would like to be able to critique myself so how to get that information is what I am looking for. There are a lot of great experience on here, that is why I am asking!

One of the things that is most helpful, I think, of the datalogging aspects is the track mapping & speed traces. Obviously all system vary somewhat, but being able to see where you brake or pick up the throttle & how it relates to your speed is huge in FV. What you may not think is that big of a deal, can translate into a larger difference at the end of the straightaway compared to other classes.
I run a GoPro separate from the data system, and that is a huge help just to watch lines & such. I would imagine something like the SmartyCam tied to a data overlay would definitely help more yet.

[jahillsr]

Thank you for the referral.

Give Dave & Ellen Ferguson, Veracity Racing Data, a call. 805-238-1699 They are extremely knowledgeable, support their products, and are very helpful. You cannot go wrong with them.

[Stumpthumper]

For the vee, some guys run the mychron5. It's for karts, but we don't have obd2 so no need to pay for that! I'm thinking of grabbing one too.

[JLind]

Mychron 5 can log but not display oil pressure, so you need a separate idiot light for oil pressure failure


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RussMcB]

One good thing about Aim (and maybe other brands, too), is there are videos on the internet to help you learn about what you can do with the data.

Another piece of advice I've heard is to get what other people in your area are using, for better support and more data available for comparison at your tracks.

[Ed Womer]

A GoPro is a cheap way to get info for your on track activity. If your car design allows mounting where you can see your gauges as well as the driving it will give you pretty much all you need unless you are a data geek and are willing to spend the time to actually look at the stuff and try to understand the info you can get. A camera will show you also what anyone in front of you is doing as well and give you visual information of what you are doing and allow you to see if you are driving where you should. Plus you can use it for other action activities as well as general video use.

Ed Womer

[Farrout48]

Whatever you do for a camera, consider that you may have to turn it on by yourself in grid. Having a crew to do that for you is nice but not every driver has a crew. That consideration may force you to a specific placement and a specific type of camera system.

I happen to like the AIM and SmartyCam GP HD. It is an automatic turn on, record and shut off. It also has the advantage of putting the video with your data and track map. More costly than a GoPro but you have to determine what your long term goal is.

[phantomjock]

If you can source one - the original funky shaped AIM SmartyCam does an inexpensive substitution. You can get RPM, G, speed and video, and can be often found for under a couple of hundred bucks. BUT, you'll have to do some digging to find one. Best of luck if that becomes your quest!

Also I've found a video lap comparison program. Lets you do sector and lap timing from the video. Kinda cool project to play with. You can even then use YouTube videos of other driver's laps to check and compare you sector times with theirs.

Not affiliated - its pretty cheap, but has a free license for 21 days, then just annoying reminders to upgrade with purchase.
If interested, here is the website: http://www.tracknite.co.uk/nitepace/index.html

Cheers - Jim

WOWOW! Just checked and those I see on offer now are over 1000!

[RussMcB]

I happen to like the AIM and SmartyCam GP HD. It is an automatic turn on, record and shut off. It also has the advantage of putting the video with your data and track map. More costly than a GoPro but you have to determine what your long term goal is.

I agree. It is REALLY nice not having to worry about starting the camera. It is also nice to see data displayed in the video. But, it was a bit painful paying for it. Not cheap.

Also I've found a video lap comparison program. Lets you do sector and lap timing from the video. Kinda cool project to play with. You can even then use YouTube videos of other driver's laps to check and compare you sector times with theirs.

I'm not sure if the following comes into play, but I've noticed video speeds are sometimes different. Recently I was watching two videos side by side and one was running faster than the other. IOW, the same lap was a couple of seconds faster/slower in each Youtube video.

[phantomjock]

I'm not sure if the following comes into play, but I've noticed video speeds are sometimes different. Recently I was watching two videos side by side and one was running faster than the other. IOW, the same lap was a couple of seconds faster/slower in each Youtube video.

Hmmm, interesting, YT conversion processes? Anyway, I'd expect that lap-to-lap from same camera would have little variation, even from day-to-day. The part I found really interesting is their method of using video based references to establish the sectors.

Cheers - Jim

[RussMcB]

Hmmm, interesting, YT conversion processes? Anyway, I'd expect that lap-to-lap from same camera would have little variation, even from day-to-day. The part I found really interesting is their method of using video based references to establish the sectors.

Cheers - Jim

Sounds interesting, Jim. I'll check it out.

The two videos I was watching side by side were from two different sources (in-car and TV coverage): https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...s-racing-in-NZ

Sorry for the thread hijack.

[Jamez]

I bought an Aim MXm as I felt it was the best compromise between having everything and not having enough that comes in a small package that looks tidy.

Things I like about the MXm are:

-It takes 4 analog inputs plus rpm but can be expanded.
-It has a fully configurable dash, I have RPM, Water, Oil, predicative lap time, best lap as my primary display.
-The display isn't wasted on me as its small enough to see through the wheel but doesn't have any wasted realestate hiding behind it.
-It has two warning RGB lights that are 100% rule based configurable, IE I have a blue warning light for when the engine is cold, it blinks orange when its cold and I go over XXXX rpm, it flashes red when something goes too hot or fails.
-The shift lights and GPS are integrated, shift lights being configurable per gear.
-The pricing was reasonable for a logger + dash + GPS all in one that can be connected to via Wifi.
-When aim gets around to creating the binary file I can integrate the serial output from my ECU into the logging.
-I don't have to worry about starting the logging before each race like I did with my previous setup and with 4GB of storage it will never run out of space.
-The logo on startup makes it feel polished as a setup.

In terms of software for data analysis I have recently found Track Hack which can take telemetry from multiple systems and is pretty intuitive to use, works well for comparing data against friends with different systems, it can also have video playing alongside the data - http://trackattack.io

In terms of overlaying data on to video for Youtube I have found dashware really easy to use - http://dashware.net

The only other piece of software I use is a google spreadsheet for figuring out gear ratios, I also like to record any random data there as I can get to it from all my devices including my phone - https://goo.gl/j7YH75

Hope the above is useful, it has taken me ages to find a mix of software and hardware I am happy with.

[romoman]

For the vee, some guys run the mychron5. It's for karts, but we don't have obd2 so no need to pay for that! I'm thinking of grabbing one too.

The M5 is not really a good choice. The RPM pickup can be finicky on non karts (and some karts), so you may have trouble getting RPM. Also, it limited on sensors which will most likely hamper you. It's not like the old M3 systems.

If you can source one - the original funky shaped AIM SmartyCam does an inexpensive substitution. You can get RPM, G, speed and video, and can be often found for under a couple of hundred bucks. BUT, you'll have to do some digging to find one. Best of luck if that becomes your quest!

Also I've found a video lap comparison program. Lets you do sector and lap timing from the video. Kinda cool project to play with. You can even then use YouTube videos of other driver's laps to check and compare you sector times with theirs.

Not affiliated - its pretty cheap, but has a free license for 21 days, then just annoying reminders to upgrade with purchase.
If interested, here is the website: http://www.tracknite.co.uk/nitepace/index.html

Cheers - Jim

WOWOW! Just checked and those I see on offer now are over 1000!

The info here is not completely correct on the original SmartyCam. It will most likely need a GPS for the speed and position as only the early ones had it build in and for RPM, you would need an RPM bridge. By the time you add those, it's better value to spend a little more and just get a S2DL and have a display with it too. But, that would not really be the optimal setup in a FV.

The MXm like someone posted about would be a great choice. An Evo4s w/ GS dash would be good, or an Evo5 w/ GS Dash if you wanted the wifi and additional analog channels. I think the full dash/loggers would probably be too big for most FV dash areas.

[crypt0zink]

The Apex Pro might be a good option for you. Its a powerful data logger with a real-time grip model LED display and easy to analysis data on your smartphone. Last season I used the Apex Pro to set vintage FV records at Gingerman and Blackhawk.

https://apextrackcoach.com/

Heres my video from Road America using the Apex Pro in the Fall.

https://youtu.be/gAkV5YKc0JQ

You can combine Apex Pro data with a GoPro video in Trackattack.io (free software) and compare laps side by side

https://youtu.be/EGg3rivTQjI

[phantomjock]

The Apex Pro is a great option - and if you have an Apple Phone - even more powerful. I am an early adopter of the product, and it is nice to have "realtime" coaching available- just in your periphery.

With the phone bluetooth to the Apex Pro, you can get even more info, but they have not (yet) gotten the Android app to the level of the iOS app. . Be sure and check out their videos.

They have a pretty aggressive marketing effort, showing up at Autocross events, etc to let potential customers give it a trial.


Cheers - Jim

[mikehinkle]

I run the Mychron 5 in my Vee. The only thing missing is oil pressure so I just run one gauge and light for that.

I did a lot of looking around before I bought it because I really wanted a all in one system without having to add the extra oil pressure gauge but everything else I found that had the same features was double the money of what the Mychron 5 costs.

The Mychron 5 has a really powerful GPS that samples twice as often as normal GPS for navigation etc. This makes the predictive lap timing very accurate and provide immediate feedback. Much better then some phone apps I tried before this.
I have the Mychron 5 LED lights set to show my predictive time so instead of shift lights I see green or red lights for my current lap. Each green/red light is a 1/10th of a second. This is the what I use most in iRacing to get faster or figure out certain turns and now I have it in my Vee which is great. You really know when you are on a flyer during qualifying so you can push more or when you blew it so you can relax.
You can get a idea of how it works in one of my videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P8638mFIyo&t
During the race, in traffic, it means a lot less but for learning what works and what doesnt work its amazing.

In a vee RPM almost doesn't matter once you find out where your shift points on the track are so if you race the same tracks you really wont need a shift light.

Most guys in our area who use data run AIM so I could compare with them. Even the Solo puts out the same data.

If I had the money I would buy the new AIM dash that did it all like the MXM

[jahillsr]

Thank you, and everyone else, for sharing what they are using and what they would like to use. I appreciate the sharing of info.

I run the Mychron 5 in my Vee. The only thing missing is oil pressure so I just run one gauge and light for that.

I did a lot of looking around before I bought it because I really wanted a all in one system without having to add the extra oil pressure gauge but everything else I found that had the same features was double the money of what the Mychron 5 costs.

The Mychron 5 has a really powerful GPS that samples twice as often as normal GPS for navigation etc. This makes the predictive lap timing very accurate and provide immediate feedback. Much better then some phone apps I tried before this.
I have the Mychron 5 LED lights set to show my predictive time so instead of shift lights I see green or red lights for my current lap. Each green/red light is a 1/10th of a second. This is the what I use most in iRacing to get faster or figure out certain turns and now I have it in my Vee which is great. You really know when you are on a flyer during qualifying so you can push more or when you blew it so you can relax.
You can get a idea of how it works in one of my videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P8638mFIyo&t
During the race, in traffic, it means a lot less but for learning what works and what doesnt work its amazing.

In a vee RPM almost doesn't matter once you find out where your shift points on the track are so if you race the same tracks you really wont need a shift light.

Most guys in our area who use data run AIM so I could compare with them. Even the Solo puts out the same data.

If I had the money I would buy the new AIM dash that did it all like the MXM

[Rich_G_SC]

The AIM products look like really good medium budget options. Reading specs the MyChron5 and Solo2 appear quite similar. Looks like the MyChron5 does not have an accelerometer where the Solo2 does. OTOH MyChron takes several inputs at $499 where you have to move up to the Solo2DL to get inputs at $699. I'm thinking CHT and EGR would be great data to have for an FV.

Anyone have insights on a comparison between these products and the need for inputs in an FV bound for regional racing?

Thanks!
Rich

[Matt Clark]

The AIM products look like really good medium budget options. Reading specs the MyChron5 and Solo2 appear quite similar. Looks like the MyChron5 does not have an accelerometer where the Solo2 does. OTOH MyChron takes several inputs at $499 where you have to move up to the Solo2DL to get inputs at $699. I'm thinking CHT and EGR would be great data to have for an FV.

Anyone have insights on a comparison between these products and the need for inputs in an FV bound for regional racing?

Thanks!
Rich

The Solo2DL appears to only do RPM.... you still need something for Oil Temp & Oil Pressure. And also EGT or CHT, ideally.

For an inexpensive All-In-One system, it appears the different MyChron3 units are still the only ones going.

[Rich_G_SC]

Thanks Matt!

Yep, can only do RPM with the more expensive DL model in the Solo2 line. RPM pickup comes with the MyChron5.

The 5 also comes with choice of CHT or EGT temp sensors. Confusingly the MyChron 5 2T has all the same features PLUS will display 2 Temps at the same time and comes with 2 sensors at an additional $100. I don't need to see both temps while driving, it would be great to log them which can be done with standard version and an additional $50 sensor.

They both have GPS logging and predictive timing which (I think) is the most important feature for me as I learn how to drive. The main difference is that accelerometer in the Solo2 to capture G-loads. IDK how important this is for me as I learn - maybe just line and road speed will do.

Thanks!

[Stumpthumper]

Thanks Matt!

Yep, can only do RPM with the more expensive DL model in the Solo2 line. RPM pickup comes with the MyChron5.

The 5 also comes with choice of CHT or EGT temp sensors. Confusingly the MyChron 5 2T has all the same features PLUS will display 2 Temps at the same time and comes with 2 sensors at an additional $100. I don't need to see both temps while driving, it would be great to log them which can be done with standard version and an additional $50 sensor.

They both have GPS logging and predictive timing which (I think) is the most important feature for me as I learn how to drive. The main difference is that accelerometer in the Solo2 to capture G-loads. IDK how important this is for me as I learn - maybe just line and road speed will do.

Thanks!

I run a Mychron5 2T and I can tell you it certainly outputs G loads. I am pretty certain it has an accelerometer. Here is a screen shot of some data. All the buttons/sensors listed in on the left are data is received from the Mychron. I have seen other peoples data (AIM) from fancier systems and they have a few others, but nothing I can't live without...certainly for the cost.
The screenshot is from RaceStudio from AIM, but I find I use TrackAttack.io more. It's a more intuitive and has a much better map. It also lets you share data with others across data platforms.