Originally Posted by Mike B
george was on the 2nd FB ad hoc committee.
george was on the 2nd FB ad hoc committee.
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
Mike
You say as if you all had it right from the start. It's pretty clear you didn't. Not bashing you. But cause and effect here.. poorly written rules.. placing blame on rules creep.. more than one person saying unknown technology played a role.. now the class is in trouble.. can't say I'm surprised
Cheers
Len
Porsche River Oaks. Houston
He was also on the first ad hoc committee back in 2005/2006.
Huh? I've reread my posts multiple times and can't find any place that I make it sound like we got it right. Quite the opposite. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else.
Mike Beauchamp
RF95 Prototype 2
Get your FIA rain lights here:
www.gyrodynamics.net/product/cartek-fia-rain-light/
This kinda insinuates you had it right.
Cheers
Len
Porsche River Oaks. Houston
Not sure how you arrived at that, but okay.
Mike Beauchamp
RF95 Prototype 2
Get your FIA rain lights here:
www.gyrodynamics.net/product/cartek-fia-rain-light/
i do not think so at all.
The reality is that the ad hoc got it close but a lawyers type read of the rules allowed this to happen.
This type of thing is supposed to be caught by the powers that actually approve the written statements and that did not happen. Just my opinion from an avid rules reader.
The reality is we must stop trying to blame specific people and that includes me shutting up too.
What needs to happen now is for someone in the F1000 community to put together a plan to correct this situation or do a total buy in of the FA deal. Someone who is pat of the F1000 community needs to lead the way or to accept this change!
Reality time!
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
I once saw a dog run around in circles chasing his own tail for a good five minutes. I admit at first I laughed just like everybody else. But then I kinda felt sorry for that poor thing. But then again...he did seem like he was really enjoying himself...
Reading some of the posts in this thread kinda reminded me of that dog...
Car counts, Naf1K, blah, blah, blah....
This whole scheme is the brain fart of one guy...ONE GUY. and it all started the day SCCA Pro Racing announced the F3 Series last year. Follow the bird droppings for crying out loud.....you find out who behind all this nonsense.
Car counts. Gimme a break.
Firman F1000
Care to enlighten the ill-informed? Who is this mystery person?
Ciao,
Joel
Piper DF-5 F1000
Yes I was there!!
Joel. I've had this discussion with several others. Not not operating in a vacuum here. But if we discuss this it has to be off line as well as other things some of us are doing to counter this action on the class by the SCCA. We started something earlier this year and we dropped it. Now we are discussing picking it back up. As an F1000 guy you may want to include your name on it along with the rest of us.
Firman F1000
Jay
I agree.. there needs to be one person who can lead the class into the future.. seems like Thomas has all the answers..
Take the reins Thomas.. make it the class you see in your minds eye.. or are you the dog chasing his own tail??
Lawsuit is not the answer.. getting cars on track is the answer
Cheers
Len
Porsche River Oaks. Houston
No answers. Only options. And there are more than one. We shall see what transpires. But I'm not alone. There are others.
What would be really nice is if all you haters, bad extras would just butt out. If your not part of this class this doesn't concern you. Your opinions don't mean jack. We'll sort this out on our own.
Firman F1000
sounds great. C U on January 1 2020. I think i am rooting for you but not sure. As i said b4 Brian and i would love to be in FB with rules similar to the original but with much more definitive and more restrictive rules.
Good luck. I hope you can work it out!
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
Seems to me that if you had a positive path to saving the class you would want to share it with your fellow competitors..
This just sounds like you are still on your lawsuit path. How is that going to help put cars on track? Or make those considering the class want to join??
Cheers
Len
Porsche River Oaks. Houston
Well, the first thing I suggest is getting in your car and on track. Unless you're racing somewhere else....
I'm trying to figure out why SCCA even matters to you?
https://racehero.io/results/by-name?...homas+copeland
I'm just trying to figure out why you're so passionate about a class you haven't raced in for 18 months.
You can count yourself as part of the problem.
Maybe they'd take you more seriously.
Let's look at P1 class technology vs P2 class technology and compare what class is growing the fastest. This may give us an answer for what direction FB should be heading.
Stan, I think this is a request for some of the historical stats that you like to generate.
If nothing else it will bring up some meaningful content for discussion.
Last edited by Northwind; 12.20.18 at 10:31 PM.
Beerbudgetguy I own an F1000. I'm on the organizing committee for NAF1000. My car been sidelined all year and the first time I've had a chance to even get in the car was last week.
You have no damn idea what you are even blabbering about. What are you even doing here? This doesn't involve you.
.
I'm requesting the moderators in this forum to lock this thread down before it starts to really get ugly. I've had enough of these parasites. .
Last edited by Thomas Copeland; 12.20.18 at 11:38 PM.
Firman F1000
Of course those who own f1000 cars should be the ones involved in shaping/rescuing in the class
However, ignoring the opinions of those with experience and/or knowledge who have zero vested interest in the outcome is a bit short-sighted.
Maybe read it, consider it and toss any/all of it out that those in the class don't find palpable.
Maybe somebody in the class with as much passion as Thomas but a bit more diplomacy should take the reins.
We don't need your advice. We have it under control. Go Away.
Firman F1000
I'm not to sure the other organizer of the NAF1000 series are going to be proud of this response. You didn't do the series any favors the way this comment was handled.
Maybe people are trying to be helpful. But it looks like some look to be here just to gloat. Or cause enough problems that they hope one of us will lose it. Advice is helpful only if you know what's is going on. You don't. Nobody on this thread does.
Now I'll give my fellow F1000 friends credit, they have more self control than me. But then they haven't been through what I went through. But I can tell ya that most of them have no interest in engaging anyone on this forum about what to do.
I use to have more self-control. But a few of years ago I let a couple of first class clowns take advantage of me and push me out of a F1000 racing series I put together. Someone I thought was a friend stuck the knife in especially deep. He even had the audacity to record me while we were on a 3-way phone call while the two of them twisted the knife in. The entire thing obviously pre-planned. Maybe he thought he could use the recording as blackmail. I don't know. Whatever the reason, it was sick. Did I get piss in the recording? You're damn right I did. I told him I thought we were friends and just couldn't believe he could do this to me. They threaten to burn the series down if I didn't leave. Then I watched while they destroyed that series anyway through negligence and mismanagement. Most people on here don't know even half the story. I've kept my mouth shut and sucked it up all these years. Not anymore I won't. They'll probably deny all this. Make some BS up. But it's 100% percent true. I was there. They did it to me.
So now when I see the crap I see on here that supposedly passes as good advice or whatever I can't help myself. Gotta lob a grenade in. Just gotta. Especially at the haters. Maybe lob two grenades and a bucket of feces and anything else I can find .At this point in my life I've simply reached a zero tolerance for Bullsh*t level. If my friends want me to resign from the NAF1000 committee all they have to do is ask. But they already know most of this.
Firman F1000
Yes, I know you own a car. My point was participation. Your's was zero. You've stated it's not car counts. Okay, sure, but we'll call it a parked car problem instead.
You could be the King of NAF1k. This thread is about an SCCA class and being the King of NAF1k does not increase your credibility. This has nothing to do with NAF1k.
You stated in post #28:
I'm still trying to figure out why this thread concerns you. Again, it has to do with SCCA and the FB class.SCCA's death is inevitable. SCCA is going to die because its a clown show.
Should I not be concerned about the SCCA targeting Thomas Copeland? I might be next. I'm trying to learn how to detect the conspiracies you speak of so I too can watch for the
Well I can see that you can't control your name calling and have a real discussion.
Ok. i give up. Go for it Beerguy. This doesn't concern you. But you just can't help butting in. You're like an unwanted guest that won't leave. It's all yours. Checking out. I've lobbed enough grenades.I'm satisfied.
Firman F1000
If you are taking about knowing the FB/F1000 cars. I'm pretty sure my resume looks better than yours.
If you are talking about what is going on in the NAF 1000 series, you are correct I don't know what is going on,
Phew! That sure got a bit ugly. I think I'll go do track days in tintops now.
Hmmm. Somebody needs a hug.
Or a nap.
John Nesbitt
ex-Swift DB-1
I’ve been racing in this class since 2011, averaging 12-15 races per year and a member of the NAF1000 committee. I can tell you that Thomas has been instrumental to the class and series, regardless of his on track participation in 2018. He is invested with heart and now his wallet. I can understand his frustration.
F1000 will survive and hopefully grow, whether it be in Majors, Regionals, or elsewhere. Outsider input is great, but at the end of the day the competitors need to flesh it out. As a competitor, I don’t recall anyone asking for my opinion. We are the customers. If the quality of the product deteriorates, the customer goes elsewhere. For the life of me, I cannot understand why ANYONE would submit recommended changes to the SCCA without consensus of the active competitors. It doesn’t matter what the vision was 15 years ago if it is not embraced by the current racers. There is a severe disconnect here. No wonder we have so many that are disenfranchised.
The NAF1000 committee is reviewing our options for 2019 and beyond. Unlike what has happened here, we are gathering feedback from our racers.
SONOMA RUNOFFSQualifying 1
Mirl Swan, FA Swift 016
Segment 1 - 31.414
Segment 2 - 36.812
Segment 3 - 19.933
Top speed - 138.494 mph
Best lap time - 1:28.835
Best segments combined - 1:28.159
Spencer Brockman, FA Swift 014-MZR 2.0
Segment 1 - 31.766
Segment 2 - 36.511
Segment 3 - 19.904
Top speed - 138.134 mph
Best lap time - 1:28.270
Best segments combined - 1:28.181
J.R. Osborne, FB Firman-Kawasaki
Segment 1 - 31.860
Segment 2 - 36.682
Segment 3 - 19.736
Top speed - 140.692 mph
Best lap time - 1:28.612
Best segments combined - 1:28.278
Randy Cook, FB JDR-Suzuki
Segment 1 - 32.125
Segment 2 - 37.555
Segment 3 - 20.192
Top speed - 138.494 mph
Best lap time - 1:30.111
Best segments combined - 1:29.872
Qualifying 2
Mirl Swan, FA Swift 016
Segment 1 - 31.579
Segment 2 - 35.745
Segment 3 - 20.192
Top speed - 140.312 mph
Best lap time - 1:28.176
Best segments combined - 1:28.050
Source: https://www.scca.com/pages/2018-runoffs-results
(Qual 1 Time Cards, Qual 2 Time Cards)
FA/FB best times of the week. Does not include unrestricted ECUs and throttle bodies for FB cars.
I received questions and requests here and by PM yesterday, and will get to them asap. It may be the weekend, though, as my shop computer suddenly died yesterday morning, and I have two customer visits today. Responses may be a bit piecemeal, but I will get to them. Cheers, Stan
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
All this data is next to useless as it ignores the most significant variable……the driver. Comeback to me with data using the same top level driver in each platform and maybe I could mike some relevant conclusions.
Ciao,
Joel
Piper DF-5 F1000
If you want to make a difference write letters to the CRB through the system. They do get read by racers who actually care what happens!
GO HERE
https://www.crbscca.com
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
Good god....that system is just a step better than hammers, chisels and stone tablets.
The letter I will write will ask why SCCA doesn't spend some of our dues money on a forum type system (like ApexSpeed) to gather input and communicate intent out in the open and in real time. Posting could easily be limited to qualified stakeholders. This would also expose some of the "old boys network" and vested interest influences that drive the final decisions into areas not in line with the majority of the stakeholders.
I have no confidence in the current system and won't waste my time writing letters. Been there, done that......
Ciao,
Joel
Piper DF-5 F1000
I fully agree with these posts. The letter writing process does have value, and I can assure you the letters are read from my experience when I was on the FSRAC. However, I agree it is a broken system. There is no feedback other than "Thank you for your input", and for large rules changes or class mergers, there needs to be more discussion and interaction than a one-way communication channel.
In treads like this, there are two commonalities between them all. 1, not enough information and 2, wrong information from people trying to connect the dots with the incomplete information they do have. When I was on the FSRAC, I saw zero self serving politics or personal agendas. But, when "Thank you for your letter' is all people have to go on it's hard to fault them from drawing that assumption.
In my view, a lack of transparency (this is not for nefarious reasons, but more for not feeding the trolls in my opinion) is a large cause for racers staying home or going elsewhere. For what it costs to race, it doesn't take much to push someone over the edge when they have one foot on a limited-racing-budget banana peel already. Make them feel like they have no say and watch what happens....
I'm chalking the resistance to SCCA's use of forums as a generational difference. We all know forums have drawbacks and angrier voices than would normally occur in face to face conversations, however it's the best we have and I feel there is good value in at least putting accurate information out into the public dialog. I'd rather have someone up set over reality, than upset over inaccurate assumptions.
You mean like this?
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
What was the change that occurred in 2010-2011? I see that as the beginning of the drop.
Just being curious here.
Indycar killed the Pro Atlantic program.
Peter Olivola
(polivola@gmail.com)
I meant in FB.
Just like that Stan!
What I think that might be important to see is the more recent historical participation trend of the P1 and P2 classes since the CSR-DSR rule change. P1 and P2 rules are really separated by allowable technology. What I'm thinking is the graph may show that there are differences in class philosophy between P1 having more freedom in design/regulations thus being more expensive and P2 having less freedom in design/regulations thus being less expensive to race. A comparison between these two classes may just indicate where a more favorable solution lies that could be applied to FB. If P2 is growing faster or has more entries than P1 than the low technology is more favorable and probably more acceptable for recruiting new FB members. If P1 is growing faster and has more entries, than technology freedom may be a more favorable direction to recruit FB members. I think a graph displaying the P1/P2 participation over the last three or so years might really give some clarity to what direction club racers want to go.
Cheaper cost savings route or more technology and expense route.
Thanks for responding.
That's about the time Geartronics really started to get a foothold in the perception you needed this technology to be competitive. I remember many people asking me questions about getting into or building a F1000 car asking about the shifter systems for the cars. Nearly all of them brought up the cost of geartronics system. I think this cost was discouraging some drivers from joining the class. I told many of these people to just get started in the class and add it to the car if they needed it in the future.
Another variable is that word may have been getting out that these cars are not all that easy to drive and are scary fast. Not all people have the talent to drive these cars and they just did not want to spend the money purchasing a car to find out that they did not have what it takes.
You can ask Thomas who introduced the Geartronics.
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