Take back the 2019 National FF Championship

[problemchild]

I have been thinking about this for a few weeks and thought I would post my idea to the Apexspeed community.

In 2019, in our 50th year as a class, can we remove the FF class National Championship race from the SCCA Runoffs?

Clearly, like a business who is run by the accountants, SCCA is letting Eric Prill and his staff treat FF as one of 25+ classes, and finding "efficient" ways to combine classes and manage an oversized event. Both FV and FF have an unparalleled history in SCCA Club racing and deserve special treatment, IMO. Because they combine so poorly with other classes, FV has survived with stand-alone status, but FF has been treated like $hit at the Runoffs in 2018 and 2019. Note that I don't blame EP and staff for doing their job, but SCCA leadership for not giving them direction to respect our iconic class and treat us right.

Formula F, Formula Ford, and F1600 is thriving across the country, especially on the East coast ...... although you can not tell that by looking at SCCA numbers. Before somebody jumps all over me, I am using the term "thriving" by 2018 small formula car standards. This weekend, there were 70 F-cars at Mosport and dozens at Indy with SVRA. Did we make it to double digits at the June Sprints?

What SCCA did to FF and F500 at the Indy Runoffs in 2017 was criminal. It was the worst treatment to our iconic class that I have seen in the 35 years I have been involved. So for 2018, they stepped up the horrible treatment, if that is possible.

What is in store for the 2019 Runoffs? Will we celebrate our 50th birthday by spending 20 mins a day for a week, practicing, qualifying, and racing with F500 .... while driving an hour each way to a hotel room ...... and spending $1500 for entry and paddock rent?

My idea. We nicely ask SCCA to suspend the FF class from their 2019 Runoff event and divert funds, energy, and promotion to a free-standing 50th BP FF SCCA Championship event on a different weekend. My suggestion would be to piggyback on another event with a FF only Thursday test day. My proposed schedule would be all day open FF testing on Thursday, 30 min Qual Friday, 30 min Qual Saturday, and a feature National Championship race at 1pm on Sunday afternoon. If wanted, we could condense to 2 Quals on Friday and a Saturday race, but maximum 4-day format. Regular SCCA Runoff invitation process would apply.

Such a format could likely piggyback on any fall event, whether run by SCCA, FRP, Vintage, or other event, although the ARRC would be an obvious choice. Our class would be celebrated as it deserves to be, and not buried in SCCA Runoff hype or bureaucracy.

I think our F-car community could make this work. We would need to organize and push for it. We would also need to unite and agree not to go to the SCCA Runoffs should SCCA not remove us from their Runoff master plan. It would take just one rogue driver looking for a cheap Runoff title to destroy this idea.

What do people think? Clearly, I am not the person to take this to SCCA, but I would certainly work in a group to make this happen. Like any idea like this, having a sponsor come forward who believes in the idea, would be a good start.

I think this could be a win-win for everyone involved. SCCA would have more available time for their other 25+ Run-off classes AND would get increased attendance at their events during the season. The class would get more recognition and media attention for it's celebration. Most of all, the competitors could have a better single-class event at reduced cost (money and time).

Cheers!

[Dave Harmison]

If the 2019 Runons don't get you excited you can always come to the 50th/ARRC at a track with massive FF history and a region that seems to like us.

[problemchild]

It would be nice to have the National FF Championship race at the ARRC and the winner be added to this list.

1969Daytona Skip BarberCaldwell D9Ford Kent1970Road Atlanta Skip BarberTecnoFord Kent1971Road Atlanta Jim HarrellTitan Mk.6AFord Kent1972Road Atlanta Eddie MillerHawke DL2BFord Kent1973Road Atlanta Bob EarlADFFord Kent1974Road Atlanta Eddie MillerLola T340Ford Kent1975Road Atlanta Tom WiechmannADF Mk.IIFord Kent1976Road Atlanta Dennis FirestoneCrosslé 30FFord Kent1977Road Atlanta Dave WeitzenhofZink Z10Ford Kent1978Road Atlanta David LoringEagleFord Kent1979Road Atlanta Dave WeitzenhofZink Z10Ford Kent1980Road Atlanta Bob LobenbergADF Mk.IIFord Kent1981Road Atlanta Dave WeitzenhofCItation-Zink Z16Ford Kent1982Road Atlanta Bob LobenbergADF Mk.IIFord Kent1983Road Atlanta R.K. SmithSwift DB1Ford Kent1984Road Atlanta Jackson YoungeReynard 84FFord Kent1985Road Atlanta Scott AtchisonSwift DB1Ford Kent1986Road Atlanta Jimmy VasserSwift DB1Ford Kent1987Road Atlanta Dave WeitzenhofCitation CenturianFord Kent1988Road Atlanta Kenny HendrickSwift DB1Ford Kent1989Road Atlanta Richard BahmerSwift DB1Ford Kent1990Road Atlanta Tony KesterReynard FF88-XFord Kent1991Road Atlanta Richard SchroebelSwift DB1Ford Kent1992Road Atlanta C.T. HancockSwift DB1Ford Kent1993Road Atlanta Anthony LazzaroVan Diemen RF93Ford Kent1994Mid-Ohio John FillipakisSwift DB1Ford Kent1995Mid-Ohio Bruce MaySwift DB1Ford Kent1996Mid-Ohio Bruce MaySwift DB1Ford Kent1997Mid-Ohio John LaRueCitationFord Kent1998Mid-Ohio Keith NunesSwift DB6Ford Kent1999Mid-Ohio Keith NunesSwift DB6Ford Kent2000Mid-Ohio Chris WinklerVan Diemen RF99Ford Kent2001Mid-Ohio Kyle KrisiloffVan Diemen RF01Ford Kent2002Mid-Ohio Justin PritchardPiper DF5Ford Kent2003Mid-Ohio Justin PritchardPiper DF5Ford Kent2004Mid-Ohio Scott RarickSwift DB6Ford Kent2005Mid-Ohio John Robinson, IISwift DB6Ford Kent2006Heartland Park Topeka Thomas SchweitzPiperFord Kent2007Heartland Park Topeka John Robinson, IISwift DB6Ford Kent2008Heartland Park Topeka Chris KellerSwift DB6Ford KentFormula F2009Road America Scott RubenzerCitation 95FFFord Kent2010Road America Tim KautzPiper DF3DFord Kent2011Road America Lewis Cooper, IIIVan Diemen RF00Ford Kent2012Road America Tim KautzPiper DF3DHonda Fit2013Road America Tim KautzPiper DF3DHonda Fit2014Laguna Seca Jeremy GrenierCitationHonda Fit2015Daytona Rick PayneVan Diemen RF99Honda Fit2016Mid-Ohio Neil VerhagenMygale SJ11Honda Fit2017Indianapolis Matthew CowleyMygale SJ11Honda Fit

But I am sure there are other options that would work too. If done right, this could increase SCCA FF entries significantly through the year. People could participate in a prestigious National Championship event without spending 10 days and $10K to race in a multi-class race group.

[Jnovak]

I have been thinking about this for a few weeks and thought I would post my idea to the Apexspeed community.

In 2019, in our 50th year as a class, can we remove the FF class National Championship race from the SCCA Runoffs?

Clearly, like a business who is run by the accountants, SCCA is letting Eric Prill and his staff treat FF as one of 25+ classes, and finding "efficient" ways to combine classes and manage an oversized event. Both FV and FF have an unparalleled history in SCCA Club racing and deserve special treatment, IMO. Because they combine so poorly with other classes, FV has survived with stand-alone status, but FF has been treated like $hit at the Runoffs in 2018 and 2019. Note that I don't blame EP and staff for doing their job, but SCCA leadership for not giving them direction to respect our iconic class and treat us right.

Formula F, Formula Ford, and F1600 is thriving across the country, especially on the East coast ...... although you can not tell that by looking at SCCA numbers. Before somebody jumps all over me, I am using the term "thriving" by 2018 small formula car standards. This weekend, there were 70 F-cars at Mosport and dozens at Indy with SVRA. Did we make it to double digits at the June Sprints?

What SCCA did to FF and F500 at the Indy Runoffs in 2017 was criminal. It was the worst treatment to our iconic class that I have seen in the 35 years I have been involved. So for 2018, they stepped up the horrible treatment, if that is possible.

What is in store for the 2019 Runoffs? Will we celebrate our 50th birthday by spending 20 mins a day for a week, practicing, qualifying, and racing with F500 .... while driving an hour each way to a hotel room ...... and spending $1500 for entry and paddock rent?

My idea. We nicely ask SCCA to suspend the FF class from their 2019 Runoff event and divert funds, energy, and promotion to a free-standing 50th BP FF SCCA Championship event on a different weekend. My suggestion would be to piggyback on another event with a FF only Thursday test day. My proposed schedule would be all day open FF testing on Thursday, 30 min Qual Friday, 30 min Qual Saturday, and a feature National Championship race at 1pm on Sunday afternoon. If wanted, we could condense to 2 Quals on Friday and a Saturday race, but maximum 4-day format. Regular SCCA Runoff invitation process would apply.

Such a format could likely piggyback on any fall event, whether run by SCCA, FRP, Vintage, or other event, although the ARRC would be an obvious choice. Our class would be celebrated as it deserves to be, and not buried in SCCA Runoff hype or bureaucracy.

I think our F-car community could make this work. We would need to organize and push for it. We would also need to unite and agree not to go to the SCCA Runoffs should SCCA not remove us from their Runoff master plan. It would take just one rogue driver looking for a cheap Runoff title to destroy this idea.

What do people think? Clearly, I am not the person to take this to SCCA, but I would certainly work in a group to make this happen. Like any idea like this, having a sponsor come forward who believes in the idea, would be a good start.

I think this could be a win-win for everyone involved. SCCA would have more available time for their other 25+ Run-off classes AND would get increased attendance at their events during the season. The class would get more recognition and media attention for it's celebration. Most of all, the competitors could have a better single-class event at reduced cost (money and time).

Cheers!

a great concept. Now how to make it happen?

[problemchild]

a great concept. Now how to make it happen?

As you know, the F500 crowd did a similar deal this year. While it sounds like it was a great success for those that went. Those that did not go, and who are doing the Runoffs, are really messing up the Runoffs for our class. Just as with SCCA staff, I am not blaming anyone in F500, but it is the way it worked out.

With enough lead time, and by having our alternate Championship event in the same geographic region as the Runoffs, hopefully we can get SCCA leadership support and just have one SCCA Championship race, just not at the Runoffs. If organized properly, and with cooperation from SCCA leadership, it could make 50th celebrations that much better, and be a boost for our class, whether Pro, Club, or Vintage.

[Steve Bamford]

I like your idea Greg as I posted on another thread I really don’t get why everyone cares so much about the runoffs based on th week plus track time. I was thinking anyone could host a national championship, just need to get people to agree to it being a national championship. I think your idea of doing it with SCCA weekend is very good inclusion & should be looked at positively, not negatively.

Not sure what is needed or who could put this on but if I can help please let me know. I think more can come out of this then people will first realize.

[R. Pare]

The Club could also look at doing 2 consecutive weekend ( they are renting the track, anyway), split the classes into 2 groups, with one group running the first weekend, and the second group running the second weekend.

Run from Thursday to Sunday both weekends, with practice on Thursday,qualifying on Friday, and the races Saturday and Sunday.

In this scenario, you are there only one day longer than for a Majors, and the Club gets 2 paid spectator weekends.

[Purple Frog]

Joe and Rand have already had a "sit-down" with the Atlanta Region.
The Atlanta Region is willing to get involved with a big event on the ARRC weekend 2019.
Road Atlanta is a great venue.
It has great F1600 history.
For the past 20 years weather has been pretty nice at the ARRC.
The track and weekend seem tailored for Greg's concept.
To do what Greg suggests a big sponsor would help. When i say big, big like WeatherTech, U.S. Postal Service, Lucas Oil, Amazon.... that kind of big.
Just saying...

[Steve Bamford]

Joe and Rand have already had a "sit-down" with the Atlanta Region.
The Atlanta Region is willing to get involved with a big event on the ARRC weekend 2019.
Road Atlanta is a great venue.
It has great F1600 history.
For the past 20 years weather has been pretty nice at the ARRC.
The track and weekend seem tailored for Greg's concept.
To do what Greg suggests a big sponsor would help. When i say big, big like WeatherTech, U.S. Postal Service, Lucas Oil, Amazon.... that kind of big.
Just saying...

Ok you guys, some of you have the political connections to get this done, if you agree then what are you waiting for?

[R. Pare]

To do what Greg suggests a big sponsor would help. When i say big, big like WeatherTech, U.S. Postal Service, Lucas Oil, Amazon.... that kind of big.
Just saying...

Valvoline used to be the major sponsor for when the Runons were in Atlanta. They would be a natural choice to contact again.

[Thomas Copeland]

This is a good idea. Wonder if it could be done for other classes as well.

I don't know how others in the FB/F1000 class feel but I don't really care about the runoffs. What I care about is seeing that there's going to be a national championship race for FB. If it's suppose to be at the VIR runoffs it's looking like there won't be one for 2019.

The NAF1000 Championship is crowning their 2018 champion at the ARRC in November. Perfect place to hold an alternative runoffs for 2019.

[Jnovak]

This will be a very hard sell to SCCA management imo

[problemchild]

Clearly, I like to get things done, and am not afraid to think outside the box to make that happen, so will not profess to understand the SCCA process, but .....

I see two scenarios.
The first one is that Joe, Mike, and friends put on this spectacular event that will draw entries from SCCA races and the SCCA Runoffs at VIR. A group of FF racers (perhaps 10-20) will choose the Runoffs instead of BP or to do both. Eric will mix those FF cars with about 30 F500 cars into a nice race group and FF will have a quiet Runoff presence. The few who chose to chase a cheap FF title will get beaten by a young kid in a white or yellow (or blue) Mygale.
The second scenario, is that SCCA accepts that they cannot properly celebrate the BP of an iconic class properly within the context of the Runoffs, and should accept the benefits of increased car counts during the season, and be part of a spectacular but separate BP celebration instead. BTW, The BP National Championship race will be won by a young kid in a white or yellow (or blue) Mygale.

The key, I think, is to make it a one class only, one time only, special circumstances event that SCCA benefits from, beyond being a better experience for their members. I think any discussion that strays from these talking points will be counter productive.

[bill gillespie]

Greg,
Take a minute a research the 1987 international Formula Atlantic Championship, held in Memphis , Tn...

it it was a new track to everyone, with no home court advantage. It drew racers from WCAR and ECAR with almost 50real FA cars.

It even had heat races to narrow the field...feature and 20k won by RK Smith in the new DB4....

the history is on OLD Racing Cars website....look at the list of notable drivers.
This was born by a conversation I had with Tim Fortner in a bar one night...

FRP has the resources to do something like this...how about a joint FF FA event for another winner take all...no qualification required...enter , show up, race..crown Champion of ALl !!!!

flame away,
Bill

[problemchild]

FRP has the resources to do something like this...how about a joint FF FA event for another winner take all...no qualification required...enter , show up, race..crown Champion of ALl !!!!

Thanks for your comments Bill.
It would be great if you can organize something for FA.
Joe, Mike, and friends are already organizing such an event for FF/F1600. My agenda is to get that, or a similar event, recognized by SCCA so the winner can go on the bottom of that list of Champions that I listed above. As FF club racers, that is our ultimate goal, and to do it at a BP would be more prestigious, if that is possible. I think an affordable 4-day event would attract a lot of people and interest, and I also expect that meeting Runoff invitation criteria will be required for SCCA support.

The key, I think, is to make it a one class only, one time only, special circumstances event that SCCA benefits from, beyond being a better experience for their members. I think any discussion that strays from these talking points will be counter productive.

[LenFC11]

I think any discussion that strays from these talking points will be counter productive.

I think you will be saying this a lot!!

[Purple Frog]

It has to be sold to Topeka as a pure SCCA event.

The title race could be on Sunday after lunch.
My vision would be the event be much like the 40th, in that there be multiple run groups for the different sub-species, but one pure run group for Runoffs qualifiers only.
Make it a spectator event, advertising in the Hotlanta market.
Put all the F1600/FF teams together in the "pro pits". Vendor row, etc.

Money talks. Find a very charitable title sponsor. I remember when it was the Champion Spark Plug Road Race of Champions. You need money to help defray Topeka overhead, and to promote properly.
Need something like the Samsung Galaxy National Championship.

Coca Cola and Home Depot are based in Hotlanta... just saying.
Go big or go home.

[Dave Harmison]

Maybe I just don't get it, but why does Topeka have to buy in? Just register and race at the ARRC or the Runons, whichever you prefer.

When you write up your resume for Ron Dennis, you just say you won the ARRC against a huge, strong field instead of the Runons.

I'm sure Ron will call you very soon either way.

[Jnovak]

I love this concept. Imo the SCCA will not. The only way to sell this concept is to bring money and lots of it in the form of sponsor $$$$$$.

1. Form a solid committee of well known SCCA members
2. Put a realistic plan together
3. GET A BIG BUCKS SPONSOR
4. get some SCCA support within the BOD.
5. Make a PROFESSIONAL PRESENTATION to the BOD
6. BRING A BIG BUCK SPONSOR TO THE MEETING!

nothing will happen without #3 and #6

Form a committee asap.

[Steve Bamford]

I love this concept. Imo the SCCA will not. The only way to sell this concept is to bring money and lots of it in the form of sponsor $$$$$$.

1. Form a solid committee of well known SCCA members
2. Put a realistic plan together
3. GET A BIG BUCKS SPONSOR
4. get some SCCA support within the BOD.
5. Make a PROFESSIONAL PRESENTATION to the BOD
6. BRING A BIG BUCK SPONSOR TO THE MEETING!

nothing will happen without #3 and #6

Form a committee asap.

Jay how much is a Big Bucks Sponsor? I think if we know what amount of money is needed that will help approach the right people to see if it is doable. I have no clue how much that is that is why I am asking.

The rest on your list depends on #3 & #6 as you said. So what is that number?

[Dave Harmison]

Let me just say I really, really trust Butch and ATL to put on a great event. Headquarters, not so much.

Mike and Joe are setting up a great 50th event with Atlanta region. I hope I haven't messed that up. All I really wanted to do was invite Greg and anyone else to the 2019 ARRC. I fear I have stepped in something messy.

[problemchild]

Mike and Joe are setting up a great 50th event with Atlanta region. I hope I haven't messed that up. All I really wanted to do was invite Greg and anyone else to the 2019 ARRC.

If I am still breathing, I will be at the 50th BP at the 2019 ARRC. I made that promise to myself in 2009 at Road America.

My idea is just to eliminate the duplication and ask SCCA to recognize the Feature winner as National Champion and add that name to our list of National Champions. I believe that would be a better attraction to draw seasonal entries than the current Runoffs format.

Joe, Mike, and friends will organize a fine event, as will the Vintage organizers at Road America, and I hope to be at both.

[reidhazelton]

Maybe I just don't get it, but why does Topeka have to buy in? Just register and race at the ARRC or the Runons, whichever you prefer.

When you write up your resume for Ron Dennis, you just say you won the ARRC against a huge, strong field instead of the Runons.

I'm sure Ron will call you very soon either way.

I'm not raining on the parade here, I applaud Greg's outside-the-box thinking and ambition to see it through. Road racing will need some pretty innovative ideas to save the ship.

But, to your question, I'm 99% positive SCCA Inc. will put the kibosh on this. The Runoffs are the only event they have a financial interest in as they are the promoter. All other events, it's the regions. Let's say you pull Formula F from the traditional Runoffs and make it a separate deal. That's 20-30 entries SCCA just lost for the Runoffs. That's a good chunk of money out of their till. Along those lines, even if you do get FF separated, qualification criteria would need to stay the same with SCCA or they will be losing 120+ entries in Majors' events nationwide among all regions if it is changed to a 'all are welcome, just show up' deal like the ARRC.

How are you going to get video coverage for the event? Pay the production crew for one event? I think these issues are what Jay was thinking of when he mentioned a sponsor. Unfortunately, I think the days of having a big dollar sponsor are long gone with the poor ROI with motorsport. The sponsor money will likely have some of that going to SCCA to offset the lost entries, a production crew to broadcast one event, etc.

[GT1Vette]

Let me just say I really, really trust Butch and ATL to put on a great event. Headquarters, not so much.

Mike and Joe are setting up a great 50th event with Atlanta region. I hope I haven't messed that up. All I really wanted to do was invite Greg and anyone else to the 2019 ARRC. I fear I have stepped in something messy.

Just for clarification, Butch (me) no longer has any responsibilities for organizing Atlanta Region events. That said, I have been retained on a consultant basis for the 2019 ARRC / FF 50th and have a tremendous amount of respect for the parties involved (that weekend will very likely also be part of the 2020 V8RRS schedule), so I expect it to be a tremendous event for all involved.

[problemchild]

Based on the number of FF people that left or are leaving SCCA racing based on the Runoff issues in 2017 and 2018, I think that this idea will generate equal or more SCCA revenue, assuming you keep the Runoff Invitation criteria in place. Many racers will be choosing between the Runoffs (8 days minimum at 20 mins tracktime shared with F500) and the ARRC (max 4 days FF only) as their "focus" event for 2019. Once they choose the ARRC, then why do SCCA Majors events, when you can do regionals, FRP, SVRA, Canada, RFFCS, etc. I would also expect more F500 Runoff entries if they were not sharing with FF.

Trending is a buzzword in our world today, and while FF/F1600 is trending up (relatively speaking) that is not the case at SCCA ST and Majors events. If you take the winter vacation events away, the car counts are single digit. Probably the 2nd and 3rd status SCCA events (June Sprints and Glen ST) will have less than 10 FFs attend. Surely, the BOD can see these trends and realize they need to start working with other successful FF/F1600 groups.

[Ray Rivard]

I suspect that lower SCCA counts this year can be directly attributed to Runoffs in California, just like last years numbers can be attributed to Runoffs at Indy. The next two years will be interesting but I would expect participation numbers in general between the Indy season (2017) and the Sonoma season (2018).

Time will tell....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jchracer]

I suspect that lower SCCA counts this year can be directly attributed to Runoffs in California, just like last years numbers can be attributed to Runoffs at Indy. The next two years will be interesting but I would expect participation numbers in general between the Indy season (2017) and the Sonoma season (2018).

Time will tell....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I most likely would have done the California race this year if last year had not been such an organizational / format disaster. The current Run-offs format is ridiculous and I will never do another unless drastic changes are made. In the future, I see the numbers declining regardless of location.

I like Greg's idea and encourage all the FF racers to evaluate their programs. If you think about the cost and time expended, the run-offs just doesn't make sense anymore for a FF competitor.

[Jnovak]

Jay how much is a Big Bucks Sponsor? I think if we know what amount of money is needed that will help approach the right people to see if it is doable. I have no clue how much that is that is why I am asking.

The rest on your list depends on #3 & #6 as you said. So what is that number?

just a guess on my part but it would take at least 2 or 3 times the $$$ that the club gets in entries for the Runoffs.

Lets pick some number by guesstimate. Lets sat that for the 50th FF anniversary race at the Runoffs the club grossed about $1000 per entry for a total of somewhere between 35-50 entries so the entry gross would be between $35K - $50K..

Now how much money would it tske to run a seperate SCCA National Championship event for FF at another venue like the ARRC? I suspect that it would cost at least another $100K in expenses to do this great idea. Now this is a total guestimate on my part but my bet is that a $100K budget might get it done. Probably be more like $150K to make SCCA go for it.

There are many who have a lot more knowledge about this sort of stuff than me. Chime in please.

[BrianT1]

While having the 50th at Road Atlanta or the other one at Road America is a good idea, it really isn't creating any traction for the class as a whole. The Runoffs is every year and while the perception of the Runoffs win is waning over time there really needs to be a big event that brings all the cars together yearly besides the Runoffs

I've suggested it before and I'll suggest it again but if there is a promoter out there that can create an American version of the Walter Hayes Trophy or Formula Ford Festival and created the kind of promotion that brings out hundreds of cars to vie for one winner then you might have something.

But until that happens trying to call out Formula Ford every 5 or 10 years is doing the class a disservice.

Brian

[problemchild]

Lets pick some number by guesstimate. Lets sat that for the 50th FF anniversary race at the Runoffs the club grossed about $1000 per entry for a total of somewhere between 35-50 entries so the entry gross would be between $35K - $50K..

.

If I believed for one second, that SCCA was going to celebrate FF at the Runoffs, give them their own race group, and 50 cars would show up ...... when the ARRC BP was 4 weeks later ...... I would never have made my suggestion.

This is beyond comprehension, even for a full SCCA kool-aid consumer.

[Jnovak]

If I believed for one second, that SCCA was going to celebrate FF at the Runoffs, give them their own race group, and 50 cars would show up ...... when the ARRC BP was 4 weeks later ...... I would never have made my suggestion.

This is beyond comprehension, even for a full SCCA kool-aid consumer.

i am not sure what you really want to happen. Please be more specific as to how this seperate from the Runoffs FF Championship would work.

you asked what it would take in amount of sponsor $$ and i tossed a number out there. I dont like it either but there is simply no way that the scca will do a special and seperate 50th anniversary FF national championship that is seperate from the Runoffs unless it pays for itself.

I think it is a very cool idea to have a 50th FF anniversary/national Championship all in one event! All it takes is $$$

Maybe the ARRC can make a 50th bday party race weekend happen, but to also make it the SCCA 50th FF National Championship??
I suggest that you put a plan/proposal together and get it to the BOD asap

[Lotus7]

[QUOTE=Jnovak;563282... there is simply no way that the scca will do a special and seperate 50th anniversary FF national championship that is seperate from the Runoffs unless it pays for itself...[/QUOTE]

Here's a thought, going back to some earlier comments in the thread...
Why does this have to be the scca's national championship? how many drivers out there care more if the scca crowns you champion, or if your peers deem you champion?

If say 5 FF guys go to VIR and one is declared "scca national champion", and say 50 FF guys go somewhere else on another weekend (Road Atlanta ARRC?) and run a race and declare the winner 'best FF driver of the year', what really means more, and to whom?

[Purple Frog]

Jay,

Topeka's gross might be $1000 per entry, but their take home may be only $150 per entry after expenses.

What if they were told :
1. Every entry in the national championship race has to qualify by then current SCCA standards.
2. They can be in charge of whatever they are in charge of at the Runoffs for that National Championship race.
3. And... they get to take home more money. $$$$

Just talked with Kummer. He, being a complete realist, says there is no way Topeka would do it.
Because they are still convinced the "gathering of the clans" all at one location is important.
I say the "gathering of the clans" concept is going to die off soon with all us gray haired old timers.
I've been to a lot of Runoffs recently. In this day, teams work like hell on the cars, exit the track to dinner, go to the hotel and repeat the next day. There is not a lot of socializing.
There is no "gathering of the clans" except for those that have nothing to do.

OBTW, I'm thinking sponsorship has to be in the $50K to $100K range. A tall order? maybe... maybe not.

[problemchild]

i am not sure what you really want to happen. Please be more specific as to how this seperate from the Runoffs FF Championship would work.

you asked what it would take in amount of sponsor $$ and i tossed a number out there. I dont like it either but there is simply no way that the scca will do a special and seperate 50th anniversary FF national championship that is seperate from the Runoffs unless it pays for itself.

I think it is a very cool idea to have a 50th FF anniversary/national Championship all in one event! All it takes is $$$

Maybe the ARRC can make a 50th bday party race weekend happen, but to also make it the SCCA 50th FF National Championship??
I suggest that you put a plan/proposal together and get it to the BOD asap

I never asked for an amount. This is not about money. All the BOD has to do is accept that a one-time special event would be better for it's membership ..... obviously for FF racers, but also for other Runoff participants ..... and do the right thing.

I find it enlightening, that you and Reid believe all the BOD cares about is money and not their member's race experience. After all the damage caused to FF by SCCA management at the 2017 & 2018 Runoffs, for there to be a dozen FF cars racing in the F500 race in 2019, while 100s of cars are at BPs at Road Atlanta and Road America ...... how will that look?

As a small business operator, when I am too busy to properly provide good service to all my customers, and someone else can provide better service to some, I would not discourage my customers from going to where better served, if it would allow me to service my existing customers better. That is just good business.

I personally will never write another letter to SCCA. I will, however, work diligently to do anything to help the class be better. Hopefully, there are people out there who can pull something together, that we can all get behind.

[problemchild]

OBTW, I'm thinking sponsorship has to be in the $50K to $100K range. A tall order? maybe... maybe not.

Those were the numbers I was expecting
Not easy, but possible considering all the successful people that have been through the class in 49 years!

[Steve Bamford]

I don’t understand why 50 - 100 k really is a tall order. People know what a season of running in a Pro arrive & drive program is I hope. You only need to grab a few of those people willing to help back the weekend & you’ve found the money. I am sure there are lots of successful people who may wish to be more then just an entrant for this event if put on. FF is strong across North America at select events, SCCA doesn’t seem to be the favorite place to play. As Greg mentioned look at this past weekend at Mosport.

The Canadian FF Series had TV coverage & played here a few years ago & paid for the production themselves. It’s not impossible as some might get you to believe.

Greg won’t be able to convince the SCCA to consider this, it will take some insiders who read here & some who post on here who have the political know how to get this done. If those here don’t support it then I’m betting this event still goes on & someone will come up with a new way to crown the FF Champion. Maybe it won’t be National Champion but perhaps US FF Champion or some other name.

SCCA why not try this? You’re looking to increase participation, this is the best idea I’ve seen to get cars out of the garage & on track.

[f500racer]

The F500 group at the Mid Ohio Majors were able to in essence pool together about $13k total for our pay event. We paid $10k as a tow fund split amongst all drivers showing to prevent a crash fest for a top purse. Initially I wanted $5k to win, but saw the point. We really didn't try that hard and I made about five phone calls to some local vendors that wanted to be seen on the cars that weekend. It helps that I'm three miles away and own my own business that the vendors wanted to co sponsor with. My point is that it didn't take a whole lot of work and 13 F5 entrants enjoyed a nice "money" race event that the Majors admin catered to. It probably will be, sans the ubber pro weekends, be one of the higher payout weekends for a formula car group in North America. Maybe THAT is the sad statement.

I believe you guys could do it and it would be an awesome event. I'll match $5k raised for a logo on cars. Any FF rentals?

JN Swank

[Purple Frog]

Greg,

Are you suggesting "crowd funding"?
Us gray hairs don't understand any of that new fangled inter-web stuff.

As a promoter it is always the easiest to work with one sponsor (patron) than a dozen.
Obviously if you get 250 FF at one track you will get some attention from the likes of Bruce Foss or maybe even Sunoco.
But... still you probably need one big bell ringer.

Based on the demographics of the entries, maybe AARP, or the folks with some magic pill.

[reidhazelton]

I find it enlightening, that you and Reid believe all the BOD cares about is money and not their member's race experience. After all the damage caused to FF by SCCA management at the 2017 & 2018 Runoffs, for there to be a dozen FF cars racing in the F500 race in 2019, while 100s of cars are at BPs at Road Atlanta and Road America ...... how will that look?

Everything always comes down to money. You can give the best race experience on earth, and go completely broke but that doesn't do any good for the future. It's business. All we are saying is you have to make the financial model work or it's a non-starter. Experience and value is key, but it has to be fiscally possible. Just because someone says ones thing, does not mean they are for or against another, or ignoring something not mentioned. I don't speak for SCCA, BoD, FSRAC, or anyone else. This is just what I see as the main pushback you will get and I'm voicing it to help flesh out your concept. Money talks, and you'll need a lot of it to get SCCA to give up one of the more well subscribed classes.

It's also very assumptive that 12 cars will be at the Runoffs, and 100s will be at Road Atlanta. I'd suggest, like Jay said, you write a realistic, clear proposal asap and get some big money behind it, and present that to SCCA.

[Purple Frog]

Reid wisely wrote: "you'll need a lot of it to get SCCA to give up one of the more well subscribed classes."

But we won't be asking them to 'give up the class'. We are just asking then run that national championship race at another venue at a different date. It will still be their race, their rules, and potentially larger income stream.

Let's face it, they did blow it completely when it came to throwing a spectacular FV50th.
We're trying to help them do better with the FF 50th.