HF VF with RCFFS

[Earley Motorsports]

Hi HF drivers. Who is going to come race with RCFFS this year?. Great group to run with and welcome all. Come have some great fun on great tracks. My first race this year will be Mid-Ohio the last weekend of June. Lots of track time and worth the drive from wherever you are. here is a link to this years schedule. You won't regret it.
http://www.rcffs.org/schedule.html

[Christopher Shoemaker]

Hi HF drivers. Who is going to come race with RCFFS this year?. Great group to run with and welcome all. Come have some great fun on great tracks. My first race this year will be Mid-Ohio the last weekend of June. Lots of track time and worth the drive from wherever you are. here is a link to this years schedule. You won't regret it.
http://www.rcffs.org/schedule.html

So you are suggesting that HF cars run with modern FF (post 81') cars with slicks and Honda Fit engines? Don't take this the wrong way, but I guess you do not care about the core heritage of what Historic Ford actually means. While I agree RCFFS is a good group, I cannot agree they are a place for HF; otherwise Monoposto and other organizations would not exist that promote keeping these cars historically accurate. Just my .02 ...


--- Christopher Shoemaker
Royale RP16 (HF)
Royale RP2 (HF)

[Earley Motorsports]

Hi Chris, no problem and not taken the wrong way.

RCFFS welcome all and run HF, CF, and FF all as individual groups within the one race group and award accordingly. The concerns I have with "

Monoposto and other organizations would not exist that promote keeping these cars historically accurate.

" is with my car for example, a 1971 Lotus 61, was modified from day one so would not fall into the monoposto rules according to their rule book. For example I have photos of Dennis Firestone racing my car at Riverside and Laguna Seca in 71-72, with the radiator mounted on the back above the transaxle and the next owner changed the 3 point rear lower A arms to parallel arms because every time he touched a curb the alignment went out. These guys were trying to get all they could out of a car and did the modifications to make them try to be quicker. Because of this, the suspension mounting points and radiator location are not in the same place as they were originally and therefore not monoposto legal. Even though I have photos and documentation of the changes done. So really, all the cars that were raced hard and modified to be competitive are no longer legal according to how I interpret the rules.

RCFFS doesn't worry about that. My car still has the original cockpit area tubes that it came with so is original. It amazes me how a new chassis can be built for a so called "original" car in 2018 and yet the car is eligible for monoposto.

Please enlighten me if I am wrong as I have been before so my wife tells me but I think she is wrong.

[Christopher Shoemaker]

... is with my car for example, a 1971 Lotus 61, was modified from day one ....

Typical for a car that was continually raced, with a preference to not buy year after year. One of the key areas of concern for vintage clubs and the reason RFFCS built the class structure the way we did ... shame that Monoposto can get their act together.

The RCFFS is a great group, just was shocked that you would recommend a HF run when there is a better fit in the same area. It is the same argument I have when a 92 or + asks to run with RFFCS. Now if you schedule is critical to the SouthEast, heck run what is there and you will have fun at both ... but then I would still push towards VDCA over RCFFS for a HF.

All preference, and coming from a vintage club forming a Series ... I think that puts you in my mind enough to understand. Historical Accuracy, Class Recognition not Overall, Right Place for the Car, and most important camaraderie.


-- Chris

[problemchild]

This is why racing any of the different versions of FF/F1600 and living on the East Coast is so cool right now. Pick your ideology, your passion, your friends, your tracks, your available weekends, and go racing. Frustrating for organizers, and probably not sustainable, but great for racers/customers!

[Bernard Bradpiece]

Greg,

Exactly. Chris, Andrew, Storm and I had been banging on about unifying FF for several years and eventually put the RFFCS together. Show up with 10 cars you are not too important, show up with 40 to 50 cars and the organizers take notice.

On another thread Apexspeeders are bemoaning the significant rise in cost to compete, even at club level. By far the biggest factor is outside all our control - track rental costs have rocketed and show no signs of slowing down. Tracks are getting ever busier and finding a free date ever harder. For any club organizing a meeting numbers are vital - used to be you could run a meeting with 75 cars, now you need about 125 to make it work, 175+ at places like The Glen. $20,000 a day track rentals need volume.

Maybe we were too early in our prognostication of the need to create a consolidated base, as to date as you note, there are several series flourishing on the East Coast. Now we are getting 40 to 50 cars RFFCS has become important to VRG and to VDCA and both organizations make every effort to meet RFFCS's needs - RFFCS in turn has an obligation not to ask for asking's sake, but to ask if it meets the demands of its entrants, who after all, are the "customers" of RFFCS and of the organizing clubs. This was never a "power grab" as has been intimated elsewhere, this was to take responsibility after SCCA had abrogated its. The SCCA's mishandling of open wheel and FF in particular is the reason we face the dilemmas we do today - but that's a whole other rant. As it is a large number of post '72 Fords have found a welcoming home, running at great tracks, with operating costs limited by the tire rules and VRG & VDCA's status as not for profit - clubs run by members for members without a 1,000 page ever changing rule book (as we know you found to your cost). And as a bonus, we have seen a snowball in the numbers of pre '73 cars.

The dilemma is that VRG & VDCA are focused on vintage racing - running cars in similar configuration to back in the day, and some disaffected SCCA guys run to different rules. I guess the situation will limp along until financial necessity forces change. Not all clubs will survive and not all series will survive. What is crucial is that at that point we should all be open and flexible to solving the problem (see "Art of The Deal", D.J.Trump)

As noted earlier in the thread, maybe you could create a club solely for purpose built open and closed wheel race cars of all ages.....................

BB

[problemchild]

I am not looking to compare different Series publicly, but I think it is great that we can do it privately, and vote with our wallets. I do think that when someone wants to promote their choice and encourage others to follow, that we respect them enough not to join their thread promoting better options. I see positives and negatives to each choice, which I know, are different than others see it.

It is ironic that, while I have choices, many, including Canada, I am limited as to where I can take both my cars and be welcome. Which brings us back to Graham's original post. FRP and RCFFS @ FRP are certainly the most inclusive, and worthy of recognition for that.

Cheers!

[Christopher Shoemaker]

FRP and RCFFS @ FRP are certainly the most inclusive, and worthy of recognition for that.
Cheers!

I think you missed the point, just accepting any car IS NOT in my opinion a good model to follow and if anything does not honor what Formula Ford was all about. Therefore I have reservation accepting the premise that accepting any FF type car is being inclusive. However, developing a series where driver skill and equalizing measures are in place to allow skill and manufacturer to take front stage are critical to the survival of the group. That's why we award and score based on class versus overall and the class structure pays heritage to the years in which they were manufactured or in certain cases developed.

I never said RCFFS was a bad place to run, only that there are better places in which to display a car with this type of heritage and allow it to properly compete. I would point a new car in the opposite direction. As Bernard points out eventually the twine shall meet ... It's inevitable. With that said, the quicker we do this the better for us all and the reason for persistence.


--- Chris

[SEComposites]

If I had a Club Ford I wouldn’t think twice about entering any of the FF series out there. I completely understand and agree in preserving the heritage of Formula Ford, but from my perspective I’d rather race locally (to avoid long tows) and would be more than happy to dip into racing SCCA, VRG, VDCA, RCFFS, the Southern F1600 series, HSR etc etc.

I would emplore these separate series to get together once a year for a FF festival though. You could all have separate awards within one giant race meeting. Perhaps that’s wishful thinking.