DaveW is OK

[cooleyjb]

I have one from my broken knee cap from 2011. I should put it in a box and send it to Dave for all he's done for the ApexSpeed community over the years. It was almost as good as narcotics when I was recovering.

After a major leg/knee surgery I was in the Game Ready and a CPM for 6 weeks. The Game Ready was the best 2,000 dollars I spent after the 12 dollar copay for narcs.

[Rick Brannon]

Glad you OK Dave godspeed

[NPalacioM3]

On the accident, just before the green flag I got hit in the rear (nose to rear wing mount/quickjack point) and knocked sideways just enough to head me directly into the "Fitch Barriers" at the entrance to the pit lane.

I didn't lose consciousness, but that was definitely the most painful accident I've ever had. I had to sit there for a minute or 2 to take deep breaths and assess whether my feet and legs were seriously damaged. The only semi-serious injury was to my right knee area.

The car needs major repair, and I have a broken tibial plateau. So I'm likely out for the season, plus I am hobbling around on one leg with crutches waiting to see an orthopedic surgeon and get into surgery, so I can't even get anything done around home that needs doing. I'll likely be out of commission for the better part of 2 months. On the bright side, no loss of consciousness, etc., so other than being depressed, mentally I'm fine.

It's obviously a major bummer, since the car was working well, and I am not used to not being self-sufficient.

Hope to be back next season or sooner if all the stars align.

And thanks to all of you for your well-wishes!

Dave, saw this thread earlier today and immediately messaged Wren to get details. I am so sorry and of all the people in the paddock, you and Sherrie are the last ones I would want it to happen to. You have been through it all and I am sure you will get through this, hang in there and Joyce and I wish you a speedy recovery. Give our best to Sherrie, heard she handled it all like a seasoned vet herself!

[Steve Demeter]

Just happy to know that things will eventually be OK.

Damn shame to get rear ended on the start.


In the pro series drivers should be better than that.

I am sure that the car hurts more than the knee right now.

Modern medicine can do wonderful fixes. At the age of 90 my dad broke a hip and was out of rehab 4 weeks after surgery living on his own.

Like others have said push the limits in rehab.

[marshall9]

Thanks, Bob. I was really looking forward to race 2.

I am sure you already have a surgeon, but if not, my brother in law is one of the best up there.
Thomas Watson
Omni Orthopedics
North Canton, OH

about 40 miles from you, I think.

[Lenny T.]

Glad to hear you are mostly Ok Dave . Hoping for a speedy recovery for you . How is Sheerie doing ,as she had a front row seat for that one ? Get well soon , cant wait to see both of you back at track..
Both you and the car were hooked up for race 1 and I wanted to see you school the kids for race 2 . We know you will come back stronger than ever.

Lenny

[kudzu63]

Glad to hear you are doing ok after a tough hit. That's not supposed to happen to us old guys! Get well soon- real racers always do.
Jim Downing

[Purple Frog]

Jim,

After looking at video...
The accident probably didn't have a worse outcome because Dave was wearing one of those devices you worked hard to bring to acceptance.

[RussMcB]

Dave, like everyone else here, sorry it happened, sorry you're going to be working hard for the next few months, and very glad it wasn't worse.

[glm34]

I spoke to Dave earlier today, and his response spoke highly of his character. He did not say one bad thing about the driver who hit him. Absolutely no finger pointing. I wish Dave the best in his recovery. And I know he will be back. We need more guys like Dave at the track.

[driver68]

I respect Dave as much as anyone I have met in racing. From the damage to the car and what I saw of the barrier when we came into the pits on the black flag, Dave had one of the hardest hits I have seen in an f2000 car. Absolute bummer he was hurt and will lose a season. Based on race 1 results, Dave did a great job of re engineering the car over the winter. Very happy he builds a safe car as that incident could have been much worse.

I'll respect Bob Wright's post and carefully choose my words. But, similar to Wren and Tim, I definitely know what I saw. The driver that hit Dave was the talk of the paddock after race 1 and not in a good way. And, the cause of the accident in race 2 seems pretty straight forward. All we can hope is that among Dave's many contributions to the sport is that this incident helps a young driver rapidly mature.

[EricP]

From the time I started wheel to wheel racing ~20 years ago my biggest fear has been doing something that hurt someone else. I’d be a mess if I caused Dave’s accident. So, I like learning from others. Is the video available to do that? Not to dissect for finger pointing but to maybe learn from...

[DaveW]

...Based on race 1 results, Dave did a great job of re engineering the car over the winter. Very happy he builds a safe car as that incident could have been much worse...

Steve L and I discussed what the new rear suspension needed to do, but Steve did all the engineering, part design, and fabrication. I suggested a few improvements, but it was 98% his work. And he sure does build a stout car. I would not like to speculate my post crash condition resulting from such a violent crash if it had not been in a Citation.

[jgaither]

Dave, I'm really sorry to hear about this. You are the standard bearer for my generation and I'm really glad to hear that your injuries are not more serious. Heal well - we all want you back. Tell Sherrie I said HI and thank her for being such a stalwart racing wife.

And - yes - thanks to Steve for designing and building these tough cars!

Warmest Regards,

John Gaither

[TimH]

All we can hope is that among Dave's many contributions to the sport is that this incident helps a young driver rapidly mature.

My most bone-headed move (so far) was to collect someone in Turn 1 when he politely braked early for someone charging on the outside of us. I am SOOooo glad that almost all the damage was to my own car. Thanks for being so understanding DaveK.

[DaveW]

Good news!

Just saw the orthopedic surgeon today. He looked at all of the various x-rays of the tibial plateau fracture and determined that although it was cracked in several places, it was not displaced and would heal on its own. So, if it heals properly, no operation will be required, and should heal in 6 weeks or so!

[hdsporty1988]

Good news!

Just saw the orthopedic surgeon today. He looked at the tibial plateau fracture and determined that although it was cracked in several places, it was not displaced and would heal on its own. So, if it heals properly, no operation will be required, and should heal in 6 weeks or so!

Now that is fantastic news!

[R. Pare]

Great relief for Sherrie - he'll be out from under her feet a lot sooner!

[Steve Demeter]

YIPPEEE!!!! Doesn't get much better than that considering.....

Good news!

Just saw the orthopedic surgeon today. He looked at all of the various x-rays of the tibial plateau fracture and determined that although it was cracked in several places, it was not displaced and would heal on its own. So, if it heals properly, no operation will be required, and should heal in 6 weeks or so!

[Brandon Dixon]

Good news!

Just saw the orthopedic surgeon today. He looked at all of the various x-rays of the tibial plateau fracture and determined that although it was cracked in several places, it was not displaced and would heal on its own. So, if it heals properly, no operation will be required, and should heal in 6 weeks or so!

Best possible news!

[EricP]

Great news! Congrats? What does one say in this case...? I guess just: Great news!

[DaveW]

Dave, I'm really sorry to hear about this. You are the standard bearer for my generation and I'm really glad to hear that your injuries are not more serious. Heal well - we all want you back. Tell Sherrie I said HI and thank her for being such a stalwart racing wife.

And - yes - thanks to Steve for designing and building these tough cars!

Warmest Regards,

John Gaither

Thanks, John! Us old farts have to stick together.

[DaveW]

Great news! Congrats? What does one say in this case...? I guess just: Great news!

What I say in this case is that I have always been very lucky in anything that is really meaningful. The car can be repaired and my leg will heal. And I was lucky enough to convince Sherrie to marry me even though I was this weird nerdy engineer.

And all the friends and acquaintances wishing me well is absolutely amazing!

[DaveW]

What I say in this case is that I have always been very lucky in anything that is really meaningful. The car can be repaired and my leg will heal. And I was lucky enough to convince Sherrie to marry me even though I was this weird nerdy engineer.

And all the friends and acquaintances wishing me well is absolutely amazing!

Plus I sincerely thank everyone that helped load my car into the trailer. I hear it was quite a crowd!

[R. Pare]

Anyone one get a picture of the poor car?

[B Reid]

Here are a couple pics of the damage. The footbox held up very well but was pushed back a bit. There is some buckling you can see in the upper left of the photo. The crush box appears to have been torn off from the side. The damage to the wheels is amazing.

[SMRacing]

Dave, I'm really glad to hear surgery is not needed at this time. Rest up. I had a good talk with Mike Fultz today and gave my testimony to accompany my onboard footage that the series already has. It's a tough situation all around. I only saw the first few tenths of a second of the impact before you were out of my peripheral vision and it will stick with me for a while. I am glad, all things considered, it wasn't nearly as bad as it looked to me.

Man, those barrels did their job, as did your chassis and belts and HANS and everything else.

[TimH]

Car sacrificed itself to protect the driver. Nice job Mr. Lathrop.

[tedwenz]

Had a visit from Bruce Macinnes just last week and we were talking about how great a competitor you and Tim Evans were in the original AFFA pro ford days. Very best to you for a speedy recovery. Ted

[Pop Chevy]

Wow Dave ! Sorry to hear about your crash and injuries. Best thing I can tell you is to listen to your doctors and do ALL the therapy when it's time. I'm carrying a few plates and pins so I know how much it hurts, just do it.. Heal well my friend, I have a feeling you will be back. If you need help with the car give me a call. Gregg

[Wren]

Glad you are already on the mend Dave. When we loaded your car in the trailer I kept thinking this is going to be a lot of work to fix. After such an excellent race 1 I was looking forward to another one in R2. Get well soon!

The FRP paddock is great. They had the car loaded and secured in Dave's trailer before the race was even restarted.

Dave, I'm really glad to hear surgery is not needed at this time. Rest up. I had a good talk with Mike Fultz today and gave my testimony to accompany my onboard footage that the series already has. It's a tough situation all around. I only saw the first few tenths of a second of the impact before you were out of my peripheral vision and it will stick with me for a while. I am glad, all things considered, it wasn't nearly as bad as it looked to me.

Man, those barrels did their job, as did your chassis and belts and HANS and everything else.

That's great to hear. I'm confident the series stewards will get this right.

[Purple Frog]

Watched some videos, looked at a bunch of pictures of the resulting damage.

Ying and Yang. Good news, Bad news.

The car rotated clockwise (from above) and hit at about a 45 degree angle. Aka Dale Earnhart.
The good news was that it wasn't a pure head in impact. Actually good for Dave.

The bad news is that the front crushable impact structure got "wiped" off towards the right side of the car.
So, it didn't get a chance to do its full service. (OBTW the Citation structure is one of the best.)
That left the master cylinders to take the next impact.

I've done a bunch of "chassis Autopsies" in the past after big hits.
The Citation did a great job of protecting Dave. The whole chassis is less than 1/4 inch shorter. Amazing considering the hit.
Dave's injury is probably because he was hard on the brakes at impact, a very natural reaction.
Indy drivers are trained to get off the pedals and let go of the wheel... I hard thing to do.
Completely against natural instinct.

For those of you looking for places to improve safety the only thing I have seen from the photos is that the deceleration load on the battery was more than the battery containment system could withstand. The battery broke away from its container and moved forward on impact. This sort of / kind of trapped Dave's feet and made driver extraction a bit more of an issue.

I'm sure Dave won't be upset with me saying this, since he has taught me much about racing safety over the years. But, it appears more robust battery positioning systems may be a good idea. Sort of calculate what a ten pound battery weighs at ... say... 50 G's.

I can't say it enough. Thank God for HANS.

[S Lathrop]

I have a collection of nose boxes that I have built for Dave's cars over the decades. He has been my chief tester. And after each test, I have changed the design.

The one take away from this crash that I can see from the pictures is that the opening in the top of the box that allows access to the master cylinders has to go. This will require that the nose box be removed to service the brakes.

The second design change needs to have a "failure point" forward of the master cylinders. This particular box had a small replaceable section that held the wing to the rest of the box. It worked very well by failing when the wing was impacted and protecting the rest of the nose box. There is a bulkhead forward of the master cylinders. This bulkhead is actually specified in the GCR. But the box actually continues forward of that bulkhead. Most crashes I have looked at and especially the ones where the nose box fails are not straight head on crashes but angular impacts, some almost lateral. In a lateral impact on the nose box, the mounting area of the nose box will be the failure point.

This is also true for composite nose boxes. There are 2 incidents in particular that I have some involvement where the composite nose box failed and was lost in the initial impact and the secondary impact was when the frame was damaged and the drivers injured. In both instances the crush structures failed at the mounting point.

At least for me, it is back to the drawing boards and do a better nose box, once again.

This is an area of safety that all cars need to be thinking about. Several years ago, and at Watkins Glenn, there was another crash exiting the last corner and that car lost the entire nose box and continued to a secondary impact that severely damaged the foot box area of the frame. In that instance the nose box and the wing were largely intact, in the middle of the track. Maybe this will be the upside of this accident for all of us involved in FF and F2000.

[EricP]

Can someone (Steve) clairify the term “fail” since I’m not an engineer?

I’m confusing “failed” = crushed/broke and absorbed impact (good) with “failed” = didn’t do its job, just snapped off without absorbing much (bad).

[Purple Frog]

Crush boxes are a good thing. The work best when the hit is straight on.
In cases where the car impacts an object while also sliding sideways the tip of the nose is like 30" in front of the chassis bulkhead. That is a lot of sideways leverage on the mounting points where the crush structure attaches to the chassis.
In those cases the structure tends to break loose from the chassis, and no longer be effective in any future impact.

Part of the safety formula is that as each part breaks it absorbs a certain amount of energy. In the case of these angular impacts we are seeing crush structures breaking a bit too easily. Not an easy problem to solve. There can be unintended consequences of making the attachment too robust.

[EricP]

Seems like multiple or “stepped” or progressive structures is the way to go then (as Steve seems to suggest). I’ve wondered about a ~45 degree impact to the front of my car... would likely pop the crush box off without absorbing much.

I’m still not sure when to use “fail” meaning “broke and absorbed impact” vs “didn’t work”.

[DaveW]

Steve L and I have decided to start the winter rebuild project (frame refurbishment, bellypan, new front structure/suspension, bodywork repair/upgrade) we had already discussed ASAP. This will greatly increase the probability that everything will be completely done before next season begins.

It will also allow time for my body to heal w/o rushing things.

So my 2018 race season was 1 race long.

[Beartrax]

I have a collection of nose boxes that I have built for Dave's cars over the decades. He has been my chief tester. And after each test, I have changed the design.

Chief Nose Box Tester
I'm not sure that's a job I want...

[Beartrax]

So my 2018 race season was 1 race long.

I'm sorry about that Dave.

[R. Pare]

In the design of anybody's crush box, a good place to start reading about what is needed can be found here:

http://www.rohacell.com/product/peek...-report-en.pdf

Part of what they finally came up with was a secondary bulkhead forward of the master cylinders, which has the advantage of allowing easy access to the MCs, as well a decreasing the lever arm applied to the mounting points of the crush box in a lateral impact.