Max Verstappen...F1 spoiler
I used to think Max was a brilliant driver. After this week and last I think he needs a severe penalty or suspension. Blocking is fine, double blocking or leaving a passing/passed car no room and causing a crash are not acceptable. He is dangerous on track.
Yeah, he certainly did it (double-move blocking) in plain view. And even if F1 doesn't penalize him, Red Bull is surely PO'd at him.
Maybe this time he won't get away with just a wrist slap.
Dave Weitzenhof
Unfortunately he did. The stewards just “reprimanded” him and Ricciardo. So he will undoubtedly continue to weave and block people under braking.Originally Posted by DaveW
who'd thunk?
That Max would try and channel Pastor Maldonado?
Lola: When four springs just aren't enough.
I was a fan of the youngster, Max.... However, He's simply not maturing and making too many unsportsmanlike moves.... I'd suspend him and give someone else a go... Max has great talent, just needs better manners....
"An analog man living in a digital world"
The apple didn't fall far from the tree . . .
he is a talented racer but makes some very bad decisions. This one probably cost his team millions of $$$!
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
Nasty spoiled brat who has no respect for other world class drivers; I'm glad Dan hit him as Kimi and Vettel should have in other races!
Allowing this kind of blocking is making F1 look more like NASCAR every race.
'Bench' the idiot for a race or two and then maybe he'll learn to add race craft to his obvious talent!
so Max is taking all the blame for this incident? I get that he is a repeat offender, but I wouldn't place the blame solely on him...
edit: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...lauda-1032066/
Last edited by A.Dobb; 04.30.18 at 1:32 PM.
only 70%?????
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
They could send Max out for a few NASCAR races... The tradition of immediate " Pay Back" cures one of bad driving quickly. It's one thing I love about roundy-round racing. If track management won't penalize bad driving, your fellow racers will.
"An analog man living in a digital world"
He has lost Red Bull $millions in the last 4 races, managed to hit Hamilton and Vettel in the last race and changed the whole outcome of the Baku GP. Indirectly he ruined Bottas race to; so yes it's 100% his driving and he should be penalized one race like Grosjean was a couple of years ago for a lot less!!
BorkRacing, DK540, Drake, racerdad2, RSS
Keith I don't want to argue but for what it's worth...He didn't ruin Bottas' race...that debris was nowhere near the redbull crash:
"It probably happened between [Pierre] Gasly and [Kevin] Magnussen, the incident they had, but we didn't have any reports of debris there." - Charlie Witing
Also, we know in the past Ricciardo hasn't been shy to blame Max and call him out for his mistakes. And in this scenario Ricciardo isn't even fully blaming Max. It certainly wasn't a safe move on Max's part but I think Ricciardo was a bit too committed to passing there as well. They should know each others tendancies by now. Ricciardo is always late on the brakes and Max tries to get away with moving under braking (or a split second before). Perfect storm - and I'm sure they both feel silly.
I think it was Croft who said in China that Verstappen is like a poker player who goes all in on every hand. That can work occasionally, but is a terrible long term strategy.
My stance is:
Verstappen did do a second block which isn't allowed. It was right before braking but that doesnt matter.
Riccairdo realistically should have known who he had in front of him and what was going to happen. They had been battling all race
We are debating not arguing and your points are valid. I'm mad at Verstappen because he is very talented and just ruining a lot of races, including his own! He should have won in China and caused chaos in Baku. I think he needs some real punishment to straighten him up. Being young and enthusiastic is no excuse any more.
Fair enough.
Check this out - looks like they have removed the 1 move rule (or at least reference it somewhere else now): https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/co..._from_website/
And since we are talking about dangerous drivers...
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/h...zerbaijan.html
Seems more likely his team owner will..They could send Max out for a few NASCAR races... The tradition of immediate " Pay Back" cures one of bad driving quickly. It's one thing I love about roundy-round racing. If track management won't penalize bad driving, your fellow racers will.
Caldwell D9B - Sold
Crossle' 30/32/45 Mongrel - Sold
RF94 Monoshock - here goes nothin'
Toto Wolff suggested he would charge the drivers the cost of damage. I think that would be excessive for Ricciardo.
FIA did not access penalty points so he will not be sitting out a race any time soon, Magnusson however is 2 incidents away from a one race time-out. (8/12 points)
Max is supposed to be a pinnacle driver, he should know that a fast closing car (and Ricciardo had set a fastest lap) will loose downforce and braking once behind his car. He deliberately moved his car in front of Ricciardo not once, but twice. I think there is more to the story than just a race crash. If Ricciardo leaves then Max, who has a contract for 2 more years, becomes the #1 driver, I believe this will be the turning point for Ricciardo to move to Mercedes or Ferrari.
Bottom line is Max is out of control, 3 races and as many crashes. Fun to watch, not so much. If it was just himself he was taking out sure you could laugh at him but now he has affected nearly all of the top 5 drivers.
Prior to the U.S. GP in 2016, the FIA clamped down on defensive moves under braking after Verstappen blocked Raikkonen in Hungary and Belgium and Hamilton in Japan. Then, after Vettel lost his podium in Mexico for moving in front of Ricciardo under braking, the FIA "relaxed" the rule for 2017 and replaced it with a "catch all" provision that basically says if a driver moves erratically or goes unnecessarily slow or behaves in a manner that could endanger another driver, he'll be investigated. In other words, the rule is no longer hard and fast, and the stewards can do whatever they want in a given situation.
In my opinion moving in front of another driver under braking is unsportsmanlike and has no place in racing, but apparently I'm old-fashioned, because this seems to be a minority view these days.
Isn't it ironic that the FIA, the teams, Liberty etc. are all looking for ways to improve passing, yet a driver weaving in order to block under braking isn't penalized. If you allow that behavior you will never have passing. Hard to blame other drivers if they do so too. The whole thing is ludicrous. They have to clamp down on the behavior.
Okay.. I know we like to bring out the pitchforks but... He's only affected Vettel and Ricciardo as far as I know? Hamilton was able to continue fine and podium when they touched in Bahrain. Feel free to correct me.
I do have bias because I like Verstappen, however my enthusiasm for him is waning. If he does something stupid in Spain I'll swallow my pride and agree with y'all.
Dr. Marko and the rest of the team leaders are in love with Verstappen. Ricciardo is highly respected but V is their man. Thus the team apportioned equal blame. That was plain silly. Must be driving Ricciardo mad.
As for the rule that's disappeared, it was a reasonable one. I look forward to hearing from them (hopefully) why this happened.
Jim
I wish I understood everything I know.
You're right. On the surface it seems completely counter intuitive for them to allow people to block - but I think as a whole they are trying to make it more exciting...at least the battle was exciting (albeit stupid & unnecessary)
The problem is the rules aren't black and white right now and somebody like Max (who has done this his whole career and has received very little punishment for it) is going to continue pushing the boundaries until they are set in stone.
What's interesting is that Verstappen's practice of pushing the boundaries is what brought about a black and white rule (called "the Verstappen rule") for the last four races of the 2016 season. And then they chose to abandon it. What a surprise that he resumed what he'd previously been doing.
Yeah.. Just ban it completely (as it should be) and then we can all agree it is 100% Verstappen's fault.
And eliminate a bad example that is being set for the newbies.
I wonder if he will have a job next year.
Still not 21. Brain still isn't fully formed especially the risk/reward centers that generally mature around age 25.
A number of celebrated 'legends' of the sport have set bad examples for 'newbies' and we have been paying the price of those examples for about 30 decades or more. Senna and Earnhardt Sr. spring readily to mind but there are others.
I was just going to comment on Senna. Widely regarded as a legend and one of the greatest ever, was involved in many ridiculously aggressive collisions, especially when he was young. I was just a kid at the time, but I remember watching him and disliking him immensely because he couldn't get in a battle without running into someone or blocking (Prost).
Then Schumacher, then Vettel, then Mad Max. There is a pattern here.
Number One
I enjoy the Red Bull's "no number one" driver. I hope they will now just tell the driver that the other team mate is faster and then if there is no respect then "Box" the slower driver. It still takes away points in the Constructors Championship, but it is better then what just happened.
I've watched a lot of F1 in the last few decades, I don't recall any of those great drivers blocking as much or as often in their entire careers as Verstappen has in 3 seasons!!
Certainly the most sportsmanlike of all time was Prost and he managed to win 51 GP's in three different makes of car!
Forget the Senna/Prost saga that was a vendetta long time brewing.
Does anyone remember Senna driving Prost off the track in the first race they ever had together and that was a demonstration race in Mercedes sedans!!
Almost all aspects of this sport have changed over the years. Why should this subjective thing called 'sportmanship' have remained the same? What we are seeing on the track today could be considered the new standard, like it or not, by the next generation of drivers.
Brian
you may be right, unless F1 revises their blocking rules to prevent multiple blocking attempts. IMO this would be a good idea
Last edited by Jnovak; 05.03.18 at 1:01 PM.
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
Jim
I wish I understood everything I know.
What's subjective about sportsmanship?
There are a lot of excellent, decent young drivers in F1, Max Verstappen just doesn't happen to be one of them.
Esteban Ocon beat Max in Formula 3 and is a very talented aggressive young F1 driver but he doesn't spend half the race blocking other drivers!
Blocking
Blocking is the number one reason we see less passing - ALL sanctioning bodies should not allow blocking at all. Then racing and the better driver would be highlighted. While I am ranting - get the areo designers to get rid of the air wake behind the rear of the racecars. While the current rules allowing one move is bad enough - Max moved twice and he got no penalty! I want to see good clean racing, after all F-1 is suppose to be the best racing - LOL. I better stop now as I am getting madder and madder.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature...shock-for-2019
Excerpt:
The research suggested that one of the issues for following was "outwashing" front wing endplate elements, designed to control the airflow over the front wheels and hence the rest of the car. It's the wake generated by these parts that makes life particularly hard for the driver behind. The theory is that removing these elements and simplifying front brake ducts - while also creating a stronger DRS effect with a bigger rear wing flap - will make following and passing a lot easier.
Outwashing endplates first appeared after the OWG had finished its job last time around, so they had not previously been studied in connection with overtaking.
Team technical bosses discussed the evidence in Bahrain, and not surprisingly there was some scepticism about the validity of the findings, and the timescale. With the April 30 deadline for the 2019 regs looming a compromise was agreed and the teams were invited to conduct their own CFD research, and between Bahrain and Azerbaijan eight of them did some homework. Everything was collated in an FIA report that was presented to the teams last Friday in Baku.
According to former OWG member Paddy Lowe, the staunchest supporter of the changes, the teams' research fully backed up the FIA/FOM findings.
Jim
I wish I understood everything I know.
All good stuff that should help passing, if drivers are not allowed to block. If drivers can weave all over the track you can improve the aero all you want but it will only have a marginal difference. F1 needs to treat the issue like Indycar. The Indycar rule 9.3.2 states, Blocking - A Driver must not alter his/her racing line to pursuing Drivers. It is simple and to the point, and they will impose a penalty regardless of current race position and don't give preferential treatment to anyone. Personally I dislike DRS and wish they would find a better solution.
this is actually a VERY big deal. Unless a car is on different tires a following car cannot get closer than about 1 second due to the aero wake of the leading car. The teams have been atudying this phenomena for over 10 years and this is the main reason why there is so little passing in F1 especially for the front teams. This is the main focus of strategy.
Get rid of this issue and passing will return.
Simple wing and underbody rules will solve this problem. I also agree that blocking must be outlawed. 1 defensive move ok 2 or more moves gets you a pit stop penalty with no work on the car. Once this happens a couple of times and blocking will no longer be an issue.
Max needs to learn how to race clean! Right now he is not a racer imo
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
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