Have belts always had a two year life, or was this a recent change?
I seem to recall they were good for 5 years in the past, no?
Harness Expiration?
Have belts always had a two year life, or was this a recent change?
I seem to recall they were good for 5 years in the past, no?
Afaik...
From the latest (Nov 2017) version of the GCR:
---------------------------------------------------
Section 9.3.18
E. All driver restraint systems shall meet one of the following: SFI specification 16.1, 16.5, or FIA specification
8853/98, 8853-2016 or 8854/98.
1. Restraint systems meeting SFI 16.1 or 16.5 shall bear a dated SFI Spec label. The certification
indicated by this label shall expire on December 31st of the 5th year after the date of manufacture
as indicated by the label. If for example the manufacture date is 2014 the fifth year after the date
of manufacture is 2019.
2. Restraint systems homologated to FIA specification 8853/98 and 8854/98 will have a label
containing the type of harness designation (‘C-###.T/98 or D-###.T/98) and date of expiration
which is the last day of the year marked. All straps in this FIA restraint system will have these
labels.
3. If a restraint system has more than one type of certification label, the label with the latest expiration
may be used.
--------------------------------------------------------
So all restraints that are legal, should, IMO, be good for 5 years.
For a few years, SFI restraints were only good for 2 years in SCCA, but per the GCR, that is no longer true.
As noted in subsequent posts, SFI-certified expiration may be in 2 years in other organizations. The GCR is only valid for SCCA. I buy FIA belts, because those expire 5 years after the date of manufacture. Mine say they are valid through 2021.
Last edited by DaveW; 11.30.17 at 7:05 PM. Reason: added last sentence
Dave Weitzenhof
Thx Dave,
guess I just got unlucky, car came with these:
good for 2 years, Apr 2016 - Apr 2018
Well, the way I understand the new rule, your belts would be good till 2021. That's 5 years after the year of manufacture.
Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway.
Greg Hagan
Lola T340, '90 Miata
PA Hillclimb Association, Susquehanna Region SCCA
One could read it that way, but the belts don't say "made in 2016", they merely say "valid until Apr 2018"
Dudley Doright tech guy will likely say no good in May of 2018.
According to this ALL belts will have an EXPIRATION date (2 years):
http://www.crowenterprizes.com/Pages/Recert.html
Belt Dates
Date of manufacture = April 2016 + five years = Dec 2021 as expiration date. That is per the GCR. I believe that SVRA is now mandating a two year expiration.
By Dudley Doright the Tech Guy
Tuck
The latest (Nov 2017) GCR says specifically that SFI 16.1 belts are valid until the end of the 5th year AFTER THE DATE OF MANUFACTURE...and yours say manufactured in April 2016. So you should be fine thru 2021 for SCCA. For other organizations, YMMV.Originally Posted by Lotus7
Last edited by DaveW; 11.30.17 at 7:07 PM.
Dave Weitzenhof
Thx all, I'll update this thread after whatever event I'm at post-April :-)
I'd heard that, to combat this extended period of usage, SFI had switched from marking their belts with date of manufacture to marking them with date of expiration.
Money grab much?
Never buying SFI belts again (used to run 'em in the ITB car, Willans in the P2)...
Mo Belts Stuff
In the "Old" days before this belt experation came about, the SFI belts always had a two year date. Everyone pretty much said "screw this" as the FIA belts had a five year life. Guess which way people went. SCCA and SFI then went with the latter until recently. From what I understand SVRA is now mandating a two year experation even for the FIA belts. No stated reasoning other than TWO MANY TORT LAWYERS. It can't be because of UV attacking the webbing (unless you park your race car in the driveway between events).
Understand that SFI and the FIA are in essance competitive agencies with SFI being "local" and further that no one wishes to pay double fees to have their products certified.
Tuck
If this becomes widespread, here's a scenario the manufacturers and distributors better get ready for:
Instead of paying $400+ for "5 year belts", we now spend the $400+, open the box on delivery and discover that the belts were made 6 months ago, so we return them with a request for replacement ones made this month? Impractical? Yes. but inevitable?
What no one seems to remember is that when SFI came out with the 2 year expiration, testing experts said their method was unscientific and not related to the real world. Not good science.
If their test method was valid, then we'd have tens of thousands of auto seat belt failures per year. Last time I looked only a few auto seat belt failures are reported every year for millions of cars and accidents. Autos have much worse solar exposure than our race cars. After all, who stores their race car outside in the sun?
Now if you spill oil or gasoline on the belts it is a different story . . . but that has nothing to do with an across the board two year life. If you contaminate your belts, you better replace them, race car or street car.
Just my opinion. If you have industrial testing experience that says belts fail after two years I'd like to see the technical papers, and the peer review comments. Good science can change my mind about SFI.
I replace my FIA belts more often that every five years but that is my choice.
Jim
I just dropped my belts at Crow for a reweb/recertification. They informed me about the new labels. But also note on the page that you linked is the following statement:
NOTE: CROW SAFETY HAS A DATE OF MANUFACTURER TAG ON ALL BELTS; to enable tech to calculate if your racing association allows more than the standard SFI 2-year expiration date.
Hopefully all manufacturers will place a "date of manufacture" label on their belts to address this very issue. I will be looking for that label when I pick mine up next week.
Eric Little
Date of MFG
Think about this - Date of mfg - of what? The belts are made from a Roll of material that was made when? When does the seat belts start to age, after it is cut from the original roll? If the belt is in good condition, I feel it will outlast any street car set of seat belts. I feel this is just a rule related to GREED. OK I am done ranting.
I've never purchased or sold a set of harnesses that didn't have a future date stamped on them. . . I can't be the only one. Usually punched a month or two in the future, perhaps an effort to give the retailers a break with more shelf life.
And just as promised, Crow put a date of manufacture on the belts along with the 'expires on...' tag.
Eric Little
And just as promised, Crow put a date of manufacture on the belts along with the 'expires on...' tag.
Eric Little
Why the 30 months?
I didn't ask since for SCCA the 'manufactured on' date was more important. That said, I would speculate that it is a matter of practicality. Belts will be made, warehoused, shipped, retailed, and finally installed. If the expiration date was 24 months from today, that process is likely to lose 6 months of belt life.
I think someone else speculated on this in this thread but I am too lazy to go back and read it to figure out where it was.... that and the fact that I can't read. I don't think a 6 month window would really bother anyone to account for the normal process. And as mentioned in my case, they will last another 30 months beyond that per SCCA rules.
Eric Little
Last edited by Eric Little; 12.08.17 at 3:05 PM. Reason: because not only can I not read but I find spelling really hard two...to....too...also... whatever!
I spoke with several harness manufacturers last week at PRI and each felt strongly that the SFI situation was a mess. One stated that the change in SFI labels (to list expiration rather than manufacture dates) was a direct response to SCCA's decision to allow 5 years on those harnesses. SFI's position was that two years was the correct life. Looks like Crow is trying to help us out. But as a Scrutineer I see a real (potential) liability problem if I approve a three-year-old harness with a label that clearly states it expired a year ago.
Has anyone from SCCA sat down with SFI to discuss this problem?
SCCA sitting down with SFI? All I can say is good luck. I sat in several of the SFI meetings at PRI. ( I did not go to the belt meeting but was in the fire systems, gloves,suits,shoes,etc portions)
SFI is stuck in the past. They will not listen to anything new it seems. Very SCCA like. ( That's the way we have always done it )
A classic is Fire Systems. SFI requires a min 5lb's of agent in systems but new systems with newer type agents can put out a bigger fire, faster with only 3lbs of agent. I watched two major fire system manufactures get shot down because that is the way it as always been and we are not going to change.
Fia
Just buy FIA rated belts. Problem solved
Well.... I would expect a possible shortage of those this year. Many belt manufactures have failed the new FIA tests for 2018.
SVRA Rule
#TB2016-003 New General RulesSubject: New General RulesFrom: Rick Parent, Technical DirectorDate: January 28, 2016TB2016_003_New_Genral_Rules [PDF]
There have been some Minor changes to the General Rules and Regulations, mostly concerning Safety.
Please read the New Rules carefully. The changes made to the Safetysection mostly have to do with expiration dates of all safety equipment like driver’s gear, seatbelts, window nets and the like.
The most notable change is for the SFI rated seat belts, The SFI seat belts that have a date of purchase are only good for 2 years from that date. The SFI and FIA belts that have an expiration date will be good until that date.
Ralph Z
1968 Alexis Mk14 Formula Ford
Bob, can you share a little about that? I'm wondering what tests got harder. Thanks.
Racer Russ
Palm Coast, FL
According to one belt manufacture's engineer ( one who passed the tests ) The test went from 25g's straight hit on the FIA test sled to 65G's on left angle hit. According to him a lot of failures were happening on the right lap belt.
He said the FIA change was to make it more in line with what the head and neck restraints are tested to.
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