Wilwood LD20 Aluminum Replacement

[Captain]

Just saw these listed on Pegasus.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...sp?RecID=27956

I guess they are brand new? Anyone try them out? Actual weight?


Jim

[hdsporty1988]

Wow, if they work well that is a great price! I just put AP's on my car or I would be all over these.

[john f]

Probably flex like all there calipers do.

jfb

[Bob Clark]

They are brand new. Weight is 2.30lbs without pads.
I do not see flex being a problem. 4 big bolts holding it together.

Bob

Just saw these listed on Pegasus.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...sp?RecID=27956


I guess they are brand new? Anyone try them out? Actual weight?


Jim

[john f]

They are brand new. Weight is 2.30lbs without pads.
I do not see flex being a problem. 4 big bolts holding it together.

Bob

4 bolts all lined up on the same bolt circle with almost no y-axis displacement. NOT a good design! Just my $0.02.

jonh f

PS
If made to same dimensions as the steel version, it will be approx 1/3 as stiff as the modulus of aluminum is 1/3 that of steel.

[kea]

The AP calipers are a monoblock design, no bolts.

[924RACR]

The AP calipers are a monoblock design, no bolts.

Love my aluminum APs!

[BeerBudgetRacing]

They are brand new. Weight is 2.30lbs without pads.
I do not see flex being a problem. 4 big bolts holding it together.

Bob

Are they making an LD19 replacement too?

Anyone try these yet?

[BeerBudgetRacing]

4 bolts all lined up on the same bolt circle with almost no y-axis displacement. NOT a good design! Just my $0.02.

jonh f

The AP LD19 units have the same bolts....

[john f]

The AP LD19 units have the same bolts....

The original LD19 was steel. As I said before, steel is 3 times as stiff as aluminum. If all dimensions are the same, a steel part will deflect 1/3 the amount that an aluminum part will with the same load. The bolt pattern is not a good design from a stiffness standpoint, but doing the same thing in aluminum is worse. Just my $0.02

john f

[BeerBudgetRacing]

The original LD19 was steel. As I said before, steel is 3 times as stiff as aluminum. If all dimensions are the same, a steel part will deflect 1/3 the amount that an aluminum part will with the same load. The bolt pattern is not a good design from a stiffness standpoint, but doing the same thing in aluminum is worse. Just my $0.02

I'm not referring to the original, I'm referring to the aluminum version of the LD19.....

Clearly it is NOT monoblock...

http://www.racing-stuff.com/AP_brake_caliper.htm

https://www.apracing.com/product_det...p3696-6e0.aspx

So why does AP bolt the aluminum LD19 and not the LD20 ?

[R. Pare]

The original LD19 was steel. As I said before, steel is 3 times as stiff as aluminum. If all dimensions are the same, a steel part will deflect 1/3 the amount that an aluminum part will with the same load. The bolt pattern is not a good design from a stiffness standpoint, but doing the same thing in aluminum is worse. Just my $0.02

john f

The original LD19s were cast iron, not steel.

The standard for caliper bolts is to place them on the same PCD and as close to the rotor clearance groove as possible so that the bolts offer their maximum stiffness value. All caliper manufactures have done this for decades.

[john f]

The original LD19s were cast iron, not steel.

The standard for caliper bolts is to place them on the same PCD and as close to the rotor clearance groove as possible so that the bolts offer their maximum stiffness value. All caliper manufactures have done this for decades.

The modulus of steel is about 30x10^6, aluminum 10x10^6, and cast iron 13x10^6. I stand corrected concerning the stiffness of the
aluminum vs IRON LD19. My mistake.
I still say that the layout of the bolts is a poor design, as proved by mono-block designs. The bolted construction is more of a cost savings in manufacture than good engineering. Just my $0.02 on that note.

jfb

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I still say that the layout of the bolts is a poor design, as proved by mono-block designs. The bolted construction is more of a cost savings in manufacture than good engineering. Just my $0.02 on that note.

Don't disagree. Monoblock would be better. But if AP bolts their aluminum LD19, I'm inclined to not discount the new wilwoods just because of bolts.

Hopefully someone tests them soon...

[alangbaker]

One of the guys up here with the SCCBC has a set his fitting to his Tiga...

...he and Marty Knoll (MK Technologies) were involved in making these calipers happen.

At least, that's my understanding.

[924RACR]

Love my aluminum APs!

FWIW, I have the alumiunum LD20 replacement front and the aluminium LD19 replacement in the rear (both from Keith)... still working through pad wear issues in the rear, but expected that and am making headway (through a combination of balance and cooling tweaks). Stiffness seems reasonable, though I'll admit I haven't done extensive back-to-back evaluation.

[R. Pare]

[QUOTE=john f;539257
I still say that the layout of the bolts is a poor design, as proved by mono-block designs. The bolted construction is more of a cost savings in manufacture than good engineering. Just my $0.02 on that note.

jfb[/QUOTE]

No one is saying that a bolted design is better or equal to a monoblock.

The layout of the bolts as close to the sweep of the underside of the bridge is absolutely the most efficient in putting the bolts into tension along with the usual bending. sorry, but that is an engineering fact.

[CGOffroad]

Back to what the Original Poster had asked. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge with these calipers?

[EACIII]

I called Wilwood to try and get a cut sheet with dimensions on it but no luck. Told me they had not updated their web site is why it is not there but could not get one from them. AP's will not fit on my car wanted to see if they would before I bought a set. Maybe someone else will try them and let us know

[kr 98]

I bought a set of these and ran them on all four corners of my '96 VD FC on probably the track that is the hardest on brakes in North America (Mission). I was very satisfied. They worked as well as steel LD20's at less than 1/2 the weight.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I called Wilwood to try and get a cut sheet with dimensions on it but no luck. Told me they had not updated their web site is why it is not there but could not get one from them. AP's will not fit on my car wanted to see if they would before I bought a set. Maybe someone else will try them and let us know

i found info on there site when this thread started.....
http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Cali...emno=120-14375

[rickb99]

Never mind.

[cjsmith]

I put a set of LD20s on the front of my 97 VD earlier this year at VIR, was having break issues with the AP calipers. I had to grind a little off the tabs to get them to fit to the front hubs. Other than that, no issues installing them. I was happy with the performance of the calipers on track. The weight between the new Wilwood and the AP I took off felt to be the same. In general, I am happy with the calipers, will order some LD19 for the back over the winter. I didn't replace all 4 at the time, I bought them from the Wilwood rep that was at the track that day. They only took cash as payment, I didn't have enough on hand to cover all 4 corners. Hope this helps.

[hdsporty1988]

Just fitted the LD20 version to the front and LD19s to rear of my 94 VD. Appear to be very good quality and very light.

[xmazdatracy]

Just fitted the LD20 version to the front and LD19s to rear of my 94 VD. Appear to be very good quality and very light.

Oh, nice catch. I did not see the 19's when I got the 20's. Looks like I have to play catch up .

[hdsporty1988]

Oh, nice catch. I did not see the 19's when I got the 20's. Looks like I have to play catch up .

I'm just trying to keep up with all the work you've done overthe winter!

[DaveW]

No one is saying that a bolted design is better or equal to a monoblock.

The layout of the bolts as close to the sweep of the underside of the bridge is absolutely the most efficient in putting the bolts into tension along with the usual bending. sorry, but that is an engineering fact.

IMO, as long as the bolts provide enough tension so that the caliper mating surfaces never separate from each other in any part of their contact surface, this bolted construction will be as stiff as or stiffer than a 1-piece caliper. That is because the steel bolts are stiffer than the aluminum that was drilled out of the bolt holes, so, if anything, a properly-designed, bolted 2-piece caliper can be stiffer than a 1-piece. So Richard, IMO, is being conservative in his 1st sentence above.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Looking to follow up on this thread.

Any positive or negative experience with these calipers?

Are you using the ST (Thermolock) coated version?

[145inmy73]

I am following up as well. Does anyone have insight on if aluminum calipers are legal for SCCA FF’s?

[Garey Guzman]

I am following up as well. Does anyone have insight on if aluminum calipers are legal for SCCA FF’s?

They've been legal in SCCA FF for a number of years, maybe 5 or more years?

[145inmy73]

Thanks for the quick reply. I had read the rules a few times over the years but didn’t specially read that composite (aluminum) calipers were allowed. I run Formula Ford in VSCDA in the Midwest but we follow the SCCA rule book.

[Bill Johnson 42]

I put these on my Zetec last year and so far they have worked well for me. Pads wear evenly with no taper even after weekends at Road America and Gateway with extreme braking. I was reluctant to try them at first but happy with the results.

I will add that I'm fairly easy on brakes and flip he pads between each weekend. After running a V you just get used to looking after your brakes.

[EACIII]

You may want to check with your group as a lot of the vintage race groups do not allow the aluminum calipers.

Ed

[Captain]

I just got a set for Christmas. Its great when the family supports the addiction!

The fit & finish is nice. Amazing light for someone use to iron calipers. Can't wait to try them!

Jim

[CGOffroad]

I have used these calipers on 3 different cars. I have been happy with them. The calipers ship with a reusable pin instead of split pins. The gauge of this pin is just a little larger than one style of LD19 pad I was using. Can't remember if it was the Hawks or Wilwood PolyMatrix pads. Anyway, simply running a drill bit through the eye on brake pad to open it up a little solves this. The other thing to note with these calipers is that the bleed screw is steel and what it screws into is brass. Don't overtighten the bleed screw. I have heard of people deforming the brass due to overtightening and then you can't get bleed screw to seal.

[Lyngengr]

I put these on my Zetec last year and so far they have worked well for me. Pads wear evenly with no taper even after weekends at Road America and Gateway with extreme braking. I was reluctant to try them at first but happy with the results.

I will add that I'm fairly easy on brakes and flip he pads between each weekend. After running a V you just get used to looking after your brakes.

I have been using these for the past 3 years on my 2002 VD/Zetec with absolutely no problems. I switched to the Primus rotors in 2019 and those really chew up pads, I go through a set on the front in about 500 miles, about 750 miles on the rear. Important to flip pads as Bill says because the pad on the inlet side will wear a lot more if not swapped. I have used the Wilwood Polymatrix and PFC pads, not much difference in stopping power or feel, but the Wilwood pads squeal a lot when cold. I don't run the pads way down, I replace when about 1/3 of the friction material is left, to avoid putting a lot of heat into the caliper pistons.

[t walgamuth]

No one is saying that a bolted design is better or equal to a monoblock.

The layout of the bolts as close to the sweep of the underside of the bridge is absolutely the most efficient in putting the bolts into tension along with the usual bending. sorry, but that is an engineering fact.

I don't see how they can be put in bending in this application....looks like all tension to me.

[t walgamuth]

IMO, as long as the bolts provide enough tension so that the caliper mating surfaces never separate from each other in any part of their contact surface, this bolted construction will be as stiff as or stiffer than a 1-piece caliper. That is because the steel bolts are stiffer than the aluminum that was drilled out of the bolt holes, so, if anything, a properly-designed, bolted 2-piece caliper can be stiffer than a 1-piece. So Richard, IMO, is being conservative in his 1st sentence above.

This is better stated than my earlier comment.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I have been using these for the past 3 years on my 2002 VD/Zetec with absolutely no problems. I switched to the Primus rotors in 2019 and those really chew up pads, I go through a set on the front in about 500 miles, about 750 miles on the rear. Important to flip pads as Bill says because the pad on the inlet side will wear a lot more if not swapped. I have used the Wilwood Polymatrix and PFC pads, not much difference in stopping power or feel, but the Wilwood pads squeal a lot when cold. I don't run the pads way down, I replace when about 1/3 of the friction material is left, to avoid putting a lot of heat into the caliper pistons.

Did you use the ST version of the calipers?

[Speed Sport Engineering]

I just got a set for Christmas. Its great when the family supports the addiction!

The fit & finish is nice. Amazing light for someone use to iron calipers. Can't wait to try them!

Jim

That's funny.....i got a set for christmas too!