IndyCar Delusions

[TambourineJDM]

Hey, I was looking for some advice on racing. I'm 17 and I've never raced a car nor a kart before, but my delusions of grandeur have motivated me to get started in racing, and after trolling around on forums for a while, I've decided to ask for the advice of people who know what they're talking about.

As the title states, I have dreams of going into IndyCar, but lately I've realized that maybe something like Formula Atlantic is more realistic. Racing is my passion and I want to do it at some level, whether it's in formula racing or GT or sports prototypes, I don't much care.

I plan on going to the Skip Barber racing school here so I can get an SCCA novice license.

I've been looking at starting in either Formula 500 or Spec Racer Ford, and SRF has been looking appealing because it's a decently popular series and the cars have low running costs (plus the sports prototypes can bump into each other without doing a 180 and destroying themselves). From there maybe I'd go to Formula Mazda (also low running costs) or maybe if I'm good enough with enough exposure, I could jump to Nasa Prototypes (looking to be a great series).

Karting has also crossed my mind, but I'm wary of going into karts, then having to transition to cars. Again, I don't know everything, and any kind of advice is appreciated.

[cooleyjb]

FWIW Skip Barber is no longer recognized by SCCA as a way to get license.

[Jtovo]

TambourineJDM,
Good luck to you. Everyone starts somewhere. Just know that I do not really believe anyone is truly "sponsored" in Formula Atlantics. Unless they sponsor themselves. And even in Indy...a lot of those guys bring family money to the table.

You could race at Indy in 2018 if you have enough money. Really.

If your parents aren't loaded (or you aren't a tech millionaire) then keep it simple.

Rent a CFF or FF, do a drivers school and get your license. If your goal is open wheel...then stick with open wheel.

I suggest you read through this site. A lot of guys in your same position have asked the same questions. And the posts went on for 200+ responses with good (yet repetitive advise). And when you visit an SCCA race, you will see a lot of guys 30+ years of age...paying their way and working on their own stuff.

I think of Dave W on this forum. AMAZING driver. Gifted. But I cannot imagine he was had more than a few thousand dollars of sponsorship money over his 50+ year career.

Good luck.

[Spengo]

I went to the skippy school but it was because I wanted to compete in their karter scholarship thing. If you aren't doing that just rent a car locally to do your novice license stuff. It's cheaper, money stays in your local racing scene, you'll get to drive a much nicer car (and a car like the one you intend to buy), and probably get more personal instructor attention too.

Karting is an excellent way to get started. The initial startup costs and running costs are much lower. You can learn everything about driving, battling, and what it takes to maintain and develop a dedicated racing vehicle from karting. Most importantly, you can get a buttload of seat time for your money. They aren't slow either, once you get up to 125cc shifters you're basically in Formula Ford territory if you take it to the fullsize tracks.

[Robert J. Alder]

Even if you don't go full boat on some Kart series, at least spend time in Karts, especially initially while you're figuring out some longer-term game plan. It's the cheapest and best way to develop or hone basic driving skills and reactions. F1 and Indy drivers are known to spend time in shifter Karts to stay in "condition." That tells you something.

[Bongo]

First, get yourself a decent PC and sim rig set-up, and sign up for iRacing. It'll help you learn vehicle dynamics, tuning and car control, and give you real wheel-to-wheel practice with people that know what they're doing (for the most part -- move out of rookie Miata as fast as possible).

At the same time, find a local, competitive arrive-and-drive karting series to take that knowledge into the real world and hone your race craft. Look for something outdoor with good participation from quality drivers, similar to Calspeed out here in CA.

Then develop yourself with the help of a coach, data (available in iRacing), books, and practice, practice, practice.

When you're ready and fast enough to do some real damage in the series, tap into the $15k-$25k you've saved up and make a run at the Rotax Max Challenge -- a direct feeder series for USF2000 which in turn feeds Indy Lights which in turn feeds IndyCar.

But there's a catch... You need to win. Don't start spending serious money before you're ready to drive and win in Rotax. USF2000 costs $250,000 to run a season. So unless you have lots of cash on-hand, you need to prove you're worth sponsors' interest to help foot the bill in the higher levels.

I might get yelled at for suggesting sim, but I'm a firm believer in them. I learned performance driving and race craft in sim long before I got on a real track in a real car, and the transition was seamless for me. You'll find stiff competition in sim, too. Many top-tier drivers from F1, WRC, GRC, IndyCar, NASCAR, WEC, etc... compete in iRacing. Before iRacing I ran in a small 15-person league using rFactor, and two of our alumni are racing in the Indy 500 next week. It is bar none the cheapest and most effective seat time in the world, thanks to the hours and hours you can put in for free.

[Offcamber1]

Here are some certainties:

1. You will meet many interesting people
2. There is no #2
3. You will make many lifelong friends
4. You will spend lots of money
5. You will avoid much trouble that many of your contemporaries get into.
6. You will have lots of fun
7. You will find that the most unreliable race car is far more trustworthy than all but the rarest woman

Worst case scenario you end up in your sixties scraping frost off your windshield in the winter since there is a disassembled race care taking up all the space in your garage. (If you live far enough south you avoid this fate as well as getting a considerably longer race season.)

And who knows? You might just make it!

Best to you,

Kip

P.S. Don't give any of your hard earned dollars to a guy named Jon Lewis.

[2BWise]

When you're ready and fast enough to do some real damage in the series, tap into the $15k-$25k you've saved up and make a run at the Rotax Max Challenge -- a direct feeder series for USF2000 which in turn feeds Indy Lights which in turn feeds IndyCar.

But there's a catch... You need to win. Don't start spending serious money before you're ready to drive and win in Rotax. USF2000 costs $250,000 to run a season. So unless you have lots of cash on-hand, you need to prove you're worth sponsors' interest to help foot the bill in the higher levels.

This would be my suggestion to my 17 year old self if I were doing it again.

I'm not going to specify a specific series, but the above concept is very close to what I'd suggest. If you're serious about trying and your end goal is Indy then you need to try and compete in a series that is a qualifier for the MRTI Shootout. F2000, FE, FM, Pacific F2000, F1600, etc all have qualifying spots for the Mazda Shootout for USF2000 scholarship money. If you're good enough to win the scholarship you've got a leg in the door. Otherwise, money is really the only option buying your rides up the ladder. Go to Mazda's site and study the qualifications to make the shootout, pick a route, and then focus on what it takes to win your way in.

[Chris Livengood]

Your best bet really is to start in a kart. Hire a local shop to get you going, setup the kart, teach you how to drive. Do that for a good two or three years and then transition. To be successful in the car series mentioned here you are likely going to be up against some seriously seasoned young men (and women). Many of the kids in F1600 have already karted for nearly a decade before getting into a car. Experience is hard to beat and karting fosters it faster than car racing by a long shot. That $15k - $20k number won't get you close to a good national karting program, those days are long gone, but it will certainly provide a good club and regional season. For the annual cost of a national level kart program you can run F1600 for a year. When you get to the point that you are looking at national level kart program as a part of your progression I recommend that you then cross over from karts to cars. You'll see more track time and more competition than you can imagine racing karts, but the top levels are just too crazy (financially) these days. When you are ready to transition to a car you should hire someone experienced to run you, a Formula Ford is a very natural transition IMO. The money spent on a professional will accelerate your learning curve drastically.

[mmi16]

At 17 and never having raced - you are already 10 or more years behind your peers in experience.

[TimH]

At 17 and never having raced - you are already 10 or more years behind your peers in experience.

Well, the word "Delusions" suggests he knows his chances are slim. There's been loads of good advice, though, on how to stretch the possibility of reaching his dream and either way set himself up for a lifetime of fun.

[TambourineJDM]

Firstly, I want to thank everyone for their replies, it really means a lot

FWIW Skip Barber is no longer recognized by SCCA as a way to get license.

Really? It's still listed on their website

Even if you don't go full boat on some Kart series, at least spend time in Karts, especially initially while you're figuring out some longer-term game plan. It's the cheapest and best way to develop or hone basic driving skills and reactions. F1 and Indy drivers are known to spend time in shifter Karts to stay in "condition." That tells you something.

Yeah, that's why I've been thinking about karting as an option

This would be my suggestion to my 17 year old self if I were doing it again.

I'm not going to specify a specific series, but the above concept is very close to what I'd suggest. If you're serious about trying and your end goal is Indy then you need to try and compete in a series that is a qualifier for the MRTI Shootout. F2000, FE, FM, Pacific F2000, F1600, etc all have qualifying spots for the Mazda Shootout for USF2000 scholarship money. If you're good enough to win the scholarship you've got a leg in the door. Otherwise, money is really the only option buying your rides up the ladder. Go to Mazda's site and study the qualifications to make the shootout, pick a route, and then focus on what it takes to win your way in.

How I never came across this, I'm not sure, but this sounds amazing. This guy Matt Machiko came over from Formula Mazda and now's in Pro Mazda. I'm planning to get a bachelor's in mechanical engineering in college, so maybe I would start karting now and then transition to FM sometime during college?



I absolutely get how remote my chances are at getting to Indy, but I at least want to see if I can, rather than give up and think about what could have been, you know? I want to do something awesome with my life, and if not IndyCar, then I'd apply to NASA's astronaut academy when I can. I just don't want to give up and miss out on what life has to offer.

[MotorCade]

I say jump in with both feet, whatever you do. Life is too short to not give it your all.

Stubbornly refuse to listen to anyone who tells you that you can't, and you might be amazed at what you'll achieve.

[Beartrax]

FWIW Skip Barber is no longer recognized by SCCA as a way to get license.

The SCCA website still lists Skip Barber. However, it is the 3 Day + a 2 Day advanced school.

[Chris Livengood]

Matt Machiko has an account here and posts every once in a while. I karted with Matt and actually we did our drivers schools together at Nelson Ledges. He's a shoe and is quite an experienced karter (I raced karts with him or many years). I'm confident he'd be willing to answer questions if you approached him online in some fashion.

[Bongo]

I say jump in with both feet, whatever you do. Life is too short to not give it your all.

Stubbornly refuse to listen to anyone who tells you that you can't, and you might be amazed at what you'll achieve.

A thousand times this.

Back in the 90's, living in Oklahoma, I told people that I wanted to work on animated movies in Hollywood, and they all told me that it was a pipe dream; That I didn't know anybody out there; That I didn't go to some top school that was recognized in the industry; That I didn't do this; That I didn't do that, etc...

Well, I didn't listen to them. Instead I jumped in with both feet by moving out to LA with almost no cash, no contacts, and no prospects.

I had a lot of struggle, but I pushed through it all. The result has been nearly 15 years of working for the two biggest and best animation studios on the planet. I've got credits on 14 films, and have held 3 Oscars in my hand that I helped win. Don't listen to people who say you can't get your dream done. All you have to do is push, and push HARD.

If you want to drive in Indy Car, you give it your best shot and don't leave anything on the table. Push yourself as hard as you can imagine, then push even harder. Don't rest. Don't leave opportunities and connections unexplored. Make friends in the field. Listen to people who have wisdom to share, and politely ignore those who say you've got no shot.

It is possible that somewhere along the journey you'll find that being a racing driver in Indy isn't your path. But in that unrelenting pursuit of your dreams, you will be saturated in the sport that you love, surrounded by good friends and a ton of good experience, and you will likely find a new path that fulfills you just as much.

You won't though, if you listen to the people who tell you that it's all a pipe dream.

Life is too short not to give it everything you've got. Especially while you're young.

Best of luck!

[S Lathrop]

I drove for 15 years, until I had to put my 5 kids through college. I engineered FA and Indy Lights for 20 years and worked with several drivers who made Indy. A few will be qualifying for Indy this weekend.

Based on that back ground my advise is to start in karting, move to FV , then FF and finally FC. From that series you can go to Indy Lights and be better prepared than 75% of the drivers you will complete against. Skip the spec classes.

Here are the lessons you should learn from my selection of classes.

Karts: you will learn to feel the rear tire and get use to how fast the world happens on the course. Left foot braking will be a good skill in the future.

FV: may be easy to drive but to really go fast you will need to perfect rolling speed through a corner better than any other class. You have no HP so you learn not to waist any momentum you have. The car is not hard to drive so you will be up against a lot of very good drivers. Winning will be very tough.

FF: mechanical grip is all you have and setups are critical to maximizing mechanical grip. Getting good at setups is absolutely in any formula you learn to drive. Look at Scot Dixon's record. He is a master of getting the best setup he can with the equipment he has. You need to continually work on your setup skills. It is almost more important than raw talent.

FC: Finally you will add wings and ground effects to your setup skills. This may be the ultimate challenge in setups. There are many spec classes that perform at FC levels but they all limit you setup options and the skills you can build by getting the winning setup. Notice in the F2000 results how strong the masters perform relative to F1600. That is because setup is equally important to athletic skill driving a car. The old drivers are masters and they are the best teachers. Beating a guy who has a decade in a particular class where there are no limits on car setups is a real accomplishment.

My favorite saying is: "I can not teach a driver how to tune his shocks in a car going 190 mph". He needs to learn that in a FF. Tuning aerodynamics at 190 has to be mastered in cars going 130 mph.

You can look at data all day long. But the data only tells what you did with the car. But you are driving in a space well in front of what the data records. You must develop setup skills that are tuned to what you feel the car is doing in response to your inputs. You make inputs based on what you expect to happen and what the track demands you do to get through the next challenge.

You need to learn what a perfectly balanced car feels like and what it take to make any car you drive into that perfect setup.

Don't move up to the next class until you are running up front in the class you are running. You will learn more race craft winning in a slower class than running mid field in a faster car. The game is about winning not how fast you are going. Master the challenges in each class you participate in.

Now this advise is worth exactly what you are paying to get it, nothing.

[TimH]

Now this advise is worth exactly what you are paying to get it, nothing.

I call B.S. This advice is coming from a guy who's been there and done that.

[MotorCade]

It is possible that somewhere along the journey you'll find that being a racing driver in Indy isn't your path. But in that unrelenting pursuit of your dreams, you will be saturated in the sport that you love, surrounded by good friends and a ton of good experience, and you will likely find a new path that fulfills you just as much.

You won't though, if you listen to the people who tell you that it's all a pipe dream.

Life is too short not to give it everything you've got. Especially while you're young.

Best of luck!

I love this.

I started late with race cars - didn't even bother getting my license until I was 18, because bicycles are also awesome and had me very captivated at the time. I had planned to be a career military officer - did time Army enlisted, somehow got accepted to Canoe U, graduated and did my time in the Navy. Then I broke my foot, (compound fracture of both bones at the ankle, multiple tendons and ligaments severed), at a time when the military was looking for excuses for 'Reduction in Force'. All of a sudden I found myself a civilian with no idea what to do with my life. In the middle of all this, I was also getting a divorce from a woman who had cheated on me (with my college roomie) while deployed. But - I had discovered racing via miatas and autocross while in my last couple of years in the Navy.

I job-hopped for a while, very unhappy and very broke. I was told by multiple people that 'racing is not a career' and have heard the adage about 'making a small fortune in racing' about a million times. I was also 'too old' to race, in my mid-20s. In the meantime, I slept in my truck at the track every weekend, I instructed, I went back to work the next morning. Work was merely a means to keep tires on the car. Track time was the only thing I did that made me feel human. All the ADHD-kid barrage of inputs were finally meaningful, on track.

I had to give up racing for a little while. Partly because I ran out of cash, partly because I started listening to all the people telling me to grow up. I took a steady job, parked the car for a while, and met an awesome woman who I married and began having kids. I became a Christian (not preaching here, just saying one of the things that made a drastic change in me personally). The cars stayed parked. But I didn't stop dreaming, and she believed in me enough to encourage me to get back out. And I made friends with a couple other racers through church. They also pushed me to get back out. Before you know it, I was pushing myself again, like I never had before. And then I started winning. And started believing in myself again. That feeds the motivation in incredible ways.

I quit my dead-end job and took a job with GM, who approached me because they were looking to put 'car-guys' back in the business. It's turned out to be one of the best things I've ever done. Last year I was able to implement a new Limit Handling training and certification program company-wide. I'm writing this from the comfort of my home office, looking out the windows at the trees blowing. I'm encouraged by the bosses to keep working on my side-business. I get to drive the wheels off company cars (and teach others) weekly. I may not have ended up as a pro-racer. But I found something that really fulfills me, and supports my wife, kids, and a great lifestyle.

Do just like Bongo says - throw your heart and soul into it. Just don't get discouraged halfway through like I did. My only regret is that I didn't figure this out sooner, and that I (for a while) listened to those that said my 'pipe-dream' wasn't worth chasing. And surround yourself with people who believe in you. (Be discerning here - don't cut out anyone with constructive criticism - just those that are destructive.)

Go get it. I hope you make it (or find your next best thing that you didn't even know you wanted).

Cheers,

Cade

[2BWise]

I quit my dead-end job and took a job with GM, who approached me because they were looking to put 'car-guys' back in the business. It's turned out to be one of the best things I've ever done. Last year I was able to implement a new Limit Handling training and certification program company-wide. I'm writing this from the comfort of my home office, looking out the windows at the trees blowing. I'm encouraged by the bosses to keep working on my side-business. I get to drive the wheels off company cars (and teach others) weekly. I may not have ended up as a pro-racer. But I found something that really fulfills me, and supports my wife, kids, and a great lifestyle.

You're looking into engineering. While it may not be racing there are lots of opportunities in the automotive industry for driving. The job security is much higher and you can race as a hobby. There are various suppliers and OEMs that require employees to spend large amounts of time in vehicles developing them. That is a very real option for those with engineering degrees and similar to what Cade has outlined above.

This guy raced FV back in the day and even drove at LeMans.

[TambourineJDM]

I drove for 15 years, until I had to put my 5 kids through college. I engineered FA and Indy Lights for 20 years and worked with several drivers who made Indy. A few will be qualifying for Indy this weekend.

Based on that back ground my advise is to start in karting, move to FV , then FF and finally FC. From that series you can go to Indy Lights and be better prepared than 75% of the drivers you will complete against. Skip the spec classes.

Here are the lessons you should learn from my selection of classes.

Karts: you will learn to feel the rear tire and get use to how fast the world happens on the course. Left foot braking will be a good skill in the future.

FV: may be easy to drive but to really go fast you will need to perfect rolling speed through a corner better than any other class. You have no HP so you learn not to waist any momentum you have. The car is not hard to drive so you will be up against a lot of very good drivers. Winning will be very tough.

FF: mechanical grip is all you have and setups are critical to maximizing mechanical grip. Getting good at setups is absolutely in any formula you learn to drive. Look at Scot Dixon's record. He is a master of getting the best setup he can with the equipment he has. You need to continually work on your setup skills. It is almost more important than raw talent.

FC: Finally you will add wings and ground effects to your setup skills. This may be the ultimate challenge in setups. There are many spec classes that perform at FC levels but they all limit you setup options and the skills you can build by getting the winning setup. Notice in the F2000 results how strong the masters perform relative to F1600. That is because setup is equally important to athletic skill driving a car. The old drivers are masters and they are the best teachers. Beating a guy who has a decade in a particular class where there are no limits on car setups is a real accomplishment.

My favorite saying is: "I can not teach a driver how to tune his shocks in a car going 190 mph". He needs to learn that in a FF. Tuning aerodynamics at 190 has to be mastered in cars going 130 mph.

You can look at data all day long. But the data only tells what you did with the car. But you are driving in a space well in front of what the data records. You must develop setup skills that are tuned to what you feel the car is doing in response to your inputs. You make inputs based on what you expect to happen and what the track demands you do to get through the next challenge.

You need to learn what a perfectly balanced car feels like and what it take to make any car you drive into that perfect setup.

Don't move up to the next class until you are running up front in the class you are running. You will learn more race craft winning in a slower class than running mid field in a faster car. The game is about winning not how fast you are going. Master the challenges in each class you participate in.

Now this advise is worth exactly what you are paying to get it, nothing.

Never knew setup was that important, glad I do now. That being said, moving through all of those seems a bit time consuming (fund consuming, too). Maybe I could move from karts into FF, then FM and go for a spot in MRTI.

I love this.

I started late with race cars - didn't even bother getting my license until I was 18, because bicycles are also awesome and had me very captivated at the time. I had planned to be a career military officer - did time Army enlisted, somehow got accepted to Canoe U, graduated and did my time in the Navy. Then I broke my foot, (compound fracture of both bones at the ankle, multiple tendons and ligaments severed), at a time when the military was looking for excuses for 'Reduction in Force'. All of a sudden I found myself a civilian with no idea what to do with my life. In the middle of all this, I was also getting a divorce from a woman who had cheated on me (with my college roomie) while deployed. But - I had discovered racing via miatas and autocross while in my last couple of years in the Navy.

I job-hopped for a while, very unhappy and very broke. I was told by multiple people that 'racing is not a career' and have heard the adage about 'making a small fortune in racing' about a million times. I was also 'too old' to race, in my mid-20s. In the meantime, I slept in my truck at the track every weekend, I instructed, I went back to work the next morning. Work was merely a means to keep tires on the car. Track time was the only thing I did that made me feel human. All the ADHD-kid barrage of inputs were finally meaningful, on track.

I had to give up racing for a little while. Partly because I ran out of cash, partly because I started listening to all the people telling me to grow up. I took a steady job, parked the car for a while, and met an awesome woman who I married and began having kids. I became a Christian (not preaching here, just saying one of the things that made a drastic change in me personally). The cars stayed parked. But I didn't stop dreaming, and she believed in me enough to encourage me to get back out. And I made friends with a couple other racers through church. They also pushed me to get back out. Before you know it, I was pushing myself again, like I never had before. And then I started winning. And started believing in myself again. That feeds the motivation in incredible ways.

I quit my dead-end job and took a job with GM, who approached me because they were looking to put 'car-guys' back in the business. It's turned out to be one of the best things I've ever done. Last year I was able to implement a new Limit Handling training and certification program company-wide. I'm writing this from the comfort of my home office, looking out the windows at the trees blowing. I'm encouraged by the bosses to keep working on my side-business. I get to drive the wheels off company cars (and teach others) weekly. I may not have ended up as a pro-racer. But I found something that really fulfills me, and supports my wife, kids, and a great lifestyle.

Do just like Bongo says - throw your heart and soul into it. Just don't get discouraged halfway through like I did. My only regret is that I didn't figure this out sooner, and that I (for a while) listened to those that said my 'pipe-dream' wasn't worth chasing. And surround yourself with people who believe in you. (Be discerning here - don't cut out anyone with constructive criticism - just those that are destructive.)

Go get it. I hope you make it (or find your next best thing that you didn't even know you wanted).

Cheers,

Cade

That's a crazy story man, and props to you for getting back out there I just happen to be Catholic myself lol

You're looking into engineering. While it may not be racing there are lots of opportunities in the automotive industry for driving. The job security is much higher and you can race as a hobby. There are various suppliers and OEMs that require employees to spend large amounts of time in vehicles developing them. That is a very real option for those with engineering degrees and similar to what Cade has outlined above.

This guy raced FV back in the day and even drove at LeMans.

Yeah I've thought about that too, and I'm gonna join the FSAE program in college for that purpose.

Again guys, thanks a ton for the support. I've started looking at a pickup truck, trailer, and a kart right now, and then sticking with karts into college. I imagine I'd move to FF sometime during or soon after. For the suit and helmet, do I need to get karting specific gear? Or can I just get the ones for cars?

[S Lathrop]

There is nothing wrong with aspiring to FM. The class provided a lot of performance for very reasonable money. But the skill set that it takes to excel in FM does not translate very well to other classes. FC is a way better option at that level and you can get into FC for less than FM.

As with all classes, buying a car in any class represents a significant investment. But upgrading once you are racing in a particular class can be done quite reasonably. You can buy a $10,000 to $15,000 FC and after a year or 2 turn that car for a better car for only a incremental investment. Parts for spec cars (FM, FE, SRF) tend to be more costly because there is only one supplier and you have to buy their parts. With non spec cars, FV, FF, FC you can make you own parts because there is no limit on part sources. You can find good and serviceable cars in FV, FF, and FC at very reasonable prices and for way less front line equipment.

[John Nesbitt]

FWIW Skip Barber is no longer recognized by SCCA as a way to get license.

Skippy School was decertified for a while this spring, but is back on the list of outfits who can grant a Full Competition license. I do not have any details, but I expect that it involved their sending SCCA a check.

[BURKY]

Skippy School was decertified for a while this spring, but is back on the list of outfits who can grant a Full Competition license. I do not have any details, but I expect that it involved their sending SCCA a check.

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/skip-b...856.1495331337

[TimH]

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/skip-b...856.1495331337

Yikes!

[chrisw52]

lots of good advice in this thread, but just remember that Randy Pobst, and more recently Brian Heitkotter (pirelli world challenge driver for nissan) both got their starts in autocross.

autocross will teach you car control that directly transfers over to road racing. It's a good way to sharpen your skills without wasting your race car budgets on PC sims.

First thing I would do is join the SCCA if you haven't already. That will also open opportunities for you to volunteer for track corner working, which is another great way to get introduced to the sport and could open many doors to other opportunities.

good luck with what ever you do.

[EYERACE]

You are not delusioned..........you are ambitious and aspired..........and that's a great thing.

Lathrop just about said it all.

[rdracr]

+1 for autocross. It will teach you precision searching for hundredths which will translate into tenths and seconds on the track. It also is a great low cost "fill in" for those dead moments between races.

[Chris Livengood]

Even in the poorly attended auto cross events I've done I maybe got 20 minutes of total driving time. Fun for dusting off the cob webs or working on some dampers, I wouldn't call it a great way to gain experience though. When I started karting we paid $3 for unlimited track time. The only thing that stopped practice is when the sun went down. Things have changed since then, but there are still karting open practices out there. You can easily get 20 minutes of straight driving time, and if you stick around for a day you will do that 10 times. Dollar for dollar karting can't be beat.

[captain_pants]

As a huge autocross fan; I'll suggest that if the goal is Indy then your energy better be spent somewhere other than autocross. Sure, it's a great way to sharpen your car control and get some inexpensive competition, the number of people that move to Indy from autocross is effectively zero.

Someone who's goal is to run Olympic marathons probably should not focus much time on their 100m dash. It's still running, but there's a different focus. Autocross is about extracting maximum potential at relatively low speeds, with no (or little) concern for tire/brake life, and with no practice other than mental practice. Good skills to have, but racecraft is hugely lacking.

You need massive amounts of funding to do wheel-to-wheel at a high level and there isn't anyone watching autocross, which translates to no sponsorship.

On the other hand, if you just want to have a blast for low prices, autocross rules. Seat time is at a priority, so the learning curve can be pretty long. I would recommend against starting in a formula car though, as it's hard enough when you have a known commodity. There's too much rope to hang yourself with in the plethora of adjustments in a formula car. If you can drive a stock Miata/Mustang/whatever quickly, then you can move to developing a formula car to your tastes.

[TambourineJDM]

As a huge autocross fan; I'll suggest that if the goal is Indy then your energy better be spent somewhere other than autocross. Sure, it's a great way to sharpen your car control and get some inexpensive competition, the number of people that move to Indy from autocross is effectively zero.

Someone who's goal is to run Olympic marathons probably should not focus much time on their 100m dash. It's still running, but there's a different focus. Autocross is about extracting maximum potential at relatively low speeds, with no (or little) concern for tire/brake life, and with no practice other than mental practice. Good skills to have, but racecraft is hugely lacking.

You need massive amounts of funding to do wheel-to-wheel at a high level and there isn't anyone watching autocross, which translates to no sponsorship.

On the other hand, if you just want to have a blast for low prices, autocross rules. Seat time is at a priority, so the learning curve can be pretty long. I would recommend against starting in a formula car though, as it's hard enough when you have a known commodity. There's too much rope to hang yourself with in the plethora of adjustments in a formula car. If you can drive a stock Miata/Mustang/whatever quickly, then you can move to developing a formula car to your tastes.

Yeah autocross wasn't something I was ever looking at as a ladder rung

You are not delusioned..........you are ambitious and aspired..........and that's a great thing.

Lathrop just about said it all.

It's a semi-ironic joke, since my chances are slim.

There is nothing wrong with aspiring to FM. The class provided a lot of performance for very reasonable money. But the skill set that it takes to excel in FM does not translate very well to other classes. FC is a way better option at that level and you can get into FC for less than FM.

As with all classes, buying a car in any class represents a significant investment. But upgrading once you are racing in a particular class can be done quite reasonably. You can buy a $10,000 to $15,000 FC and after a year or 2 turn that car for a better car for only a incremental investment. Parts for spec cars (FM, FE, SRF) tend to be more costly because there is only one supplier and you have to buy their parts. With non spec cars, FV, FF, FC you can make you own parts because there is no limit on part sources. You can find good and serviceable cars in FV, FF, and FC at very reasonable prices and for way less front line equipment.

I've just been leaning towards FM because of the stupid reliability. I've heard guys say that they're competitive on an engine they've run 4 seasons with. And in terms of starting, I've sort of been torn between karting and Formula 500, since F500 cars are like $8k (with spare parts) and I'd imagine it would be more competitive instead of going against guys who have run in Rotax for years with lots of money backing them.

[captain_pants]

Excellence breeds excellence. Racing with the biggest field with cut-throat competition will teach you much more than lapping with 3 other mediocre* drivers.

* I'm NOT implying that any particular class is mediocre. Just go race with fast people and learn rapidly.

[Rick Brannon]

Yeah autocross wasn't something I was ever looking at as a ladder rung

It's a semi-ironic joke, since my chances are slim.

I've just been leaning towards FM because of the stupid reliability. I've heard guys say that they're competitive on an engine they've run 4 seasons with. And in terms of starting, I've sort of been torn between karting and Formula 500, since F500 cars are like $8k (with spare parts) and I'd imagine it would be more competitive instead of going against guys who have run in Rotax for years with lots of money backing them.

Reliability is partially the FM good model but mostly your preparation skills, get started in karts if money is a huge factor in your decision and buddy up with a F500 racer, FF, FC guy to help them prep and setup their car you will learn a ton. Also the kart has literally no weight transfer in relation to a car e.g. four wheel brakes on a kart you set up the opposite of a car with the rear wheels handling the bulk of the stopping power (lock rear wheels, fronts should still rotate (need to steer)). Helping the formula car guy will add to your prep skills and the understanding of weight transfer including overall car setup which is more complex than a kart. Just my two cents this is how I started only lasted three races as I sold my kart and bought my first FF. LOL

[Chris Livengood]

Yeah autocross wasn't something I was ever looking at as a ladder rung

It's a semi-ironic joke, since my chances are slim.

I've just been leaning towards FM because of the stupid reliability. I've heard guys say that they're competitive on an engine they've run 4 seasons with. And in terms of starting, I've sort of been torn between karting and Formula 500, since F500 cars are like $8k (with spare parts) and I'd imagine it would be more competitive instead of going against guys who have run in Rotax for years with lots of money backing them.

Yeah, forget Rotax. It's too expensive and too fast for a starter anyways. Get a Yamaha or one of the other air cooled variants first. In the roughly 18 years that I karted Rotax was somewhere around the top five most competitive series I ran, but I never much cared for the formula. It certainly wasn't any cheaper than the non spec classes, so don't let it suck you in. The same can be said for race cars, spec classes are only cheaper if you don't understand how racing budgets work. It doesn't matter if your budget is $15k or $150k, you are going to spend every cent you have plus some, spec car or not.

[Robert Finlayson]

Rotax is out of business in the USA.

[Bongo]

...It's a good way to sharpen your skills without wasting your race car budgets on PC sims.

I have to respectfully disagree. PC sims have come a VERY long way since the early 2000's and even back then they were a useful learning tool. I had never driven anything at speed in real life when I started learning how to handle a car at speed in rFactor. I eventually moved up to formula cars in sim, racing in a weekly league. After that, I jumped into Rotax in real life and was up to speed almost immediately. In fact, two alumni from that league of around 16 people were Sage Karam and Zack Veach, who are racing in the Indy 500 on Sunday.

You can gain useful training with any gaming-level PC (which a lot of people have anyway), and a $200 wheel/pedal set.

You'll blow through that much cash in fuel, tire wear, brakes, entry fees and food in a single autoX event -- for 20 minutes of track time. If you spent that same $200 adding a decent control set to a gaming PC, you could drive a 919 around Spa for 8 hours a day using the same software the Porsche factory drivers use to train.

Not dissing auto X as a training tool -- any seat time behind the wheel in a real car at the limit is valuable. Just making the case that PC sim is by no means a waste of money.

[Matt Clark]

I would recommend looking at FV as your first car. They are simple, cheap & will teach you to hone skills way better than any other beginner class. You will learn in a hurry how quick money disappears when you go racing, and FV will allow you to keep running when the budget is thin. Also they have a reasonable field in your area.
I see Buddy Lazier is in the Indy 500 field this year... he had his son running FV last year, so there is a bit of an endorsement there.

[Offcamber1]

You just discovered a truth: If you ask the same question of Ten racers, you'll get 11 different answers.

Any seat time in any thing (sim, autox, or ???) is beneficial. Crewing is better than watching Indycar on TV.

Go race!

[Daryl DeArman]

Don't waste any of your money or time screwing around with any SCCA class. This isn't 1990, much less 1980 or earlier.

SCCA, as relevant as they want to be or their long time supporters would like them to be, are no longer relevant (towards your goal).

Karts here and spend every spare moment trying to figure out how to get others to support your effort. It doesn't matter how talented you are, you will run out of your own money before you make it to Indy unless you are quite wealthy. If you ARE quite wealthy, it doesn't matter: pick a class, get some seat time. I'm sure there is at least one owner that would accept a check for a seat.


Look at the bios of every single entrant in the 500 this coming weekend. What percentage of those who found their way to your goal spent more than a single season racing with the SCCA?

[Jtovo]

We need to post a section for NEWBIE's. How many times over the years have we all tossed our .02 in on this question.

Much more fun over the winter break.

I do remember Charlie Kimball showing up at Road America in 2002 for the June Sprints. First time at Road America and having a hell of a drive to win it. SCCA worked for him. Although that is all I ever heard of him in SCCA.