MC motors in F500

[Jnovak]

I want to clarify The history of engines in F500 and define my involvement in the engine changes over the last 25 years. This is just the way it happened.

1. I always have been and still am a big fan of F500 and the 2 stroke engines. If I was personally still racing I would be racing with a Rotax.

2. I started in the class in 1985 when I built my first F440 car. This is when we used Kawasaki 440cc 2 stroke engines.

3. After a few years the class switched to the AMW 500 cc 2 stroke due to running out of the Kawasaki engines.

4. The AMW engine was notorisly unreliable.

5. After the 2nd year of the AMW engine debacle I took it upon myself to research other 2 stroke engines. I contacted 4 snowmobile manufacturers about engines.

6. I was finally able to make a deal with Bombardier to supply engines to the class after having a long discussion with the VP of Bombardier.

7. I personally put together the entire mass of paperwork and working directly with the tech department and the CRB. I managed to get approval for the 494 non rave valve Rotax motor.

8. The first cars put together with the 494 were NovaKars and this included conducting dyno tests on both the AMW and the Rotax 494 which I supplied to SCCA. BTW Dave O'Brian and I paid for all the dyno work. Just like everyone else I had to purchase my 494 engine from the distributor that Bombardier defined.

9. Within a year or 2 the vast majority of cars had been converted to the Rotax 494. Engine reliability was dramatically improved with the Rotax. It still took a couple of years to get them developed for use in cars. Frankly, I am certain that the change to the Rotax saved F500 from a certain end of the class.

10. About 8 years ago others, not me, proposed the use of 600cc motorcycle engines.

11. I was originally against the implementation of the MC engines in F500 until I called up the VP of Bombardier again to discuss the continued use of the 494 engine. He then told me that the 494 in all versions was dead and that all 2 strokes would be out of production within 5 years due to emission issues. Of course this info had a huge impact on my position wrt the use of MC engines.

12. I then decided to put a car together with a 600cc bike engine. This I did and then designed and build fixtures to dyno the MC engine on the same engine dyno. The total cost for the dyno work was about $1500 and I received donations form 4 others interested in the MC engines totaling $400. I paid the rest.

13. Now Bombardier is still building 600cc and larger 2 strokes as they have figured out the emission issues but for how long will this continue?

14. Every snowmobile manufacturer now manufactures more 4 stroke sleds than 2 stroke sleds. The time of the 2 stroke engines is coming to an end.

15. I still believe that the future of F500 is with 4 stroke engines if we want this class to be around in another 5-10 years.

What is the purpose of this post? Enough said.

[Rick Eskola]

Jay

I disagree with your comment that all snowmobile manufactures sell more 4 strokes than 2 strokes. Polaris has no 4 strokes in their lineup for 2017, and they rank 2nd in total sales to Ski-Doo, which is 1st in total sales, and sell both 2 and 4 stroke sleds.
Arctic Cat and Yamaha have teamed up to share technology, and Yamaha builds 4 stroke engines for Arctic's lineup, as Suzuki is slowly fazing out of the snowmobile engine supplier business. Arctic Cat is building their own 2 stroke engines. Yamaha is the only manufacture that builds 4 stroke sleds for their lineup.
With Direct Injected 2 strokes, I don't see them going away anytime soon. What I see living in snowmobile country (northern WI.) is sales are slowly declining with no snow winters and the rising cost of sleds etc. It has become a rich mans sport. I think its a matter of time when manufacturers get out of the snowmobile business. The ATV and Side by Side industry is huge.
Just my 2 cents!

Thanks

Rick Eskola

[Jnovak]

Jay

I disagree with your comment that all snowmobile manufactures sell more 4 strokes than 2 strokes. Polaris has no 4 strokes in their lineup for 2017, and they rank 2nd in total sales to Ski-Doo, which is 1st in total sales, and sell both 2 and 4 stroke sleds.
Arctic Cat and Yamaha have teamed up to share technology, and Yamaha builds 4 stroke engines for Arctic's lineup, as Suzuki is slowly fazing out of the snowmobile engine supplier business. Arctic Cat is building their own 2 stroke engines. Yamaha is the only manufacture that builds 4 stroke sleds for their lineup.
With Direct Injected 2 strokes, I don't see them going away anytime soon. What I see living in snowmobile country (northern WI.) is sales are slowly declining with no snow winters and the rising cost of sleds etc. It has become a rich mans sport. I think its a matter of time when manufacturers get out of the snowmobile business. The ATV and Side by Side industry is huge.
Just my 2 cents!

Thanks

Rick Eskola

Thanks very much for the updated info Rick. Part of the 2 stroke problem is that the engines are moving towards Fuel injection. This may not be a problem as all the MC engines are FI.

[Jnovak]

Thanks very much for the updated info Rick. Part of the 2 stroke problem is that the engines are moving towards Fuel injection. This may not be a problem as all the MC engines are FI.

The other thing that the VP said was that the 494 was long out of production. They were also unhappy that the F440-500 community had not purchased more 494 engines from their distributor. In fact the total number of 494 engines purcased was around 10-12 total. He was not happy because they had done a good sized production run of the 494 engine. Perhaps that was why they were no longer interested.

[cory mcleod]

In fact the total number of 494 engines purcased was around 10-12 total. He was not happy because they had done a good sized production run of the 494 engine.

Jay,

I think there is a typo in your post. I personally purchased 3 494s from Tony Murphy, and Jack Walbran probably purchased almost 10-12 in a single season for Rusty and him.

Cory

[Jnovak]

Jay,

I think there is a typo in your post. I personally purchased 3 494s from Tony Murphy, and Jack Walbran probably purchased almost 10-12 in a single season for Rusty and him.

Cory

All I know is what he told me.

[mmi16]

All I know is what he told me.

Tony is getting up there with the rest of us when it comes to age - and the 2nd thing to go is memory.

[Jnovak]

Tony is getting up there with the rest of us when it comes to age - and the 2nd thing to go is memory.

It was not Tony that I talked to. It was an upper management gentleman from Bombardier. Tony was their distributor.

[mmi16]

It was not Tony that I talked to. It was an upper management gentleman from Bombardier. Tony was their distributor.

From your time at Ford you know 'upper management' doesn't view reality in the same light the mere mortal humans do.

[Jnovak]

From your time at Ford you know 'upper management' doesn't view reality in the same light the mere mortal humans do.

True, however he said that they were no longer interested in F500. He was the guy who approved my original proposal to supply the 494 to the F500 class. I do not know the reasons for this.