Radical seats

[parsonsj]

Hi guys, I recently bought a 2007 SR8 (chassis 42, RPB sn 0004).

I've been slowly fixing all the years of abuse and am finally working out my seating position.

I find the seat to be pretty damn tight for my 200 lb body, both at the hip joint and the middle back. Radical sells a "wide" seat for my car, but I'm wondering if anybody knows how to tell if I already have the wide seat.

I've pulled it from the car, but there's no part number on it.

thanks!

John Parsons
2007 Radical SR8

[a. pettipas]

You really should go through the trouble of pouring a foam seat, or bead, though it would likely require a little more work, relative to a formula car, to 'contain' it within the Radical tub. I try to avoid fibreglass seats in any type of race car as they are not, by some ways, the safest option.

[cooleyjb]

You really should go through the trouble of pouring a foam seat, or bead, though it would likely require a little more work, relative to a formula car, to 'contain' it within the Radical tub. I try to avoid fibreglass seats in any type of race car as they are not, by some ways, the safest option.

You still need something to contain the bead seat. I don't know if I've seen an SR8 but other Radicals have a big open area where the seats go. And I would go for an FIA fiberglass seat over cheap 2 part foam any day of the week. I assume you are talking about the BSCI foam which is incredibly nice and something I would highly recommend.

[parsonsj]

Right -- the Radical seats are FIA-approved, so I think safety isn't a significant concern.

I'm really looking for an option to make the seat more comfortable. I've got enough 'glass skills to hack up the seat myself, but then I'll lose any notion of FIA approval.

[cooleyjb]

You could get the widest seat you can fit in the car and then pour a bead/SFI foam liner. Ultimate in fit and comfort.

[a. pettipas]

You still need something to contain the bead seat. I don't know if I've seen an SR8 but other Radicals have a big open area where the seats go. And I would go for an FIA fiberglass seat over cheap 2 part foam any day of the week. I assume you are talking about the BSCI foam which is incredibly nice and something I would highly recommend.

Absolutely the BSCI foam. The tub is open but if it was my Radical I would figure out a way to overcome that problem, totally worth the hassle, IMO.

Right -- the Radical seats are FIA-approved, so I think safety isn't a significant concern.

I'm really looking for an option to make the seat more comfortable. I've got enough 'glass skills to hack up the seat myself, but then I'll lose any notion of FIA approval.

The roll bar padding (as supplied by Radical) that covers the down tube adjacent to your head is likely in compliance with some FIA standard. I've pushed my thumb into that padding with minimal force and felt the tube so that stuff wouldn't be anywhere near my head, it is unequivocally junk. I don't subscribe to the logic that the FIA tag, or because the factory supplied the car that way, necessarily means it's bulletproof. Don't be naive, proper race cars - even improper ones - especially ones as fast as this one should not have fibreglass seats. You didn't ask for my opinion but I gave it anyway, because it's a good one; I've hit some solid things in my racing career, don't take safety for granted... or overstate the importance of FIA tags.

[parsonsj]

Thanks all. I appreciate the information and advice.

I talked with the guys at Wisko Racing (located at VIR) who are my closest Radical dealer. My car has the standard seat -- there seems to be a wide version available.

But you guys have me thinking -- I wonder if I can fit a pair of Cobra's race seats in the Radical tub. I've done that before in various street and race cars, but never considered it for the Radical.

Has anybody ever seen an SR3 or SR8 with a pair of aftermarket race seats?

[a. pettipas]

Maybe look into the Spec Racer Ford seat by Butler, may work in this application? Full-containment head and shoulder option available too, there's a pic of the SRF head surround in the link below. A proper containment seating system is probably the soundest investment in a race car you can make.
Seat http://www.butlerbuilt.net/2010_Tree...acer_Ford.html
Head/shoulder http://www.butlerbuilt.net/2010_Tree...SP_HS_kit.html

[CharleyH]

I have the wide seat in my SR3. I am 6' tall an weigh 250 lbs and I fit fine it it. Here are some pictures of the seat so you can compare it to yours. I had a cobra seat in my Corvette and it wouldn't be a good fit in the Radical. The Radical seat is reclined much more than standard racing seats.

Charley

[parsonsj]

Hey Charley! Can you measure the inside width of the seat right above where the sub straps come through? Mine is about 14.6" or so. (370 mm)

[CharleyH]

Hey Charley! Can you measure the inside width of the seat right above where the sub straps come through? Mine is about 14.6" or so. (370 mm)

Sure, I will be working on my car this weekend, so I can get you the measurement.

[CharleyH]

I measured it at the seat belt area at the height of the center seat structure. It measures 15". I have the car at my house this weekend, so let me know if you want any other pictures or information.

Charley

[parsonsj]

Charley, thanks very much. That's at least a 1/2" wider than mine. It should make for a much more comfortable seating "experience".

jp

[CharleyH]

If your ever in the Orange County, CA area you are welcome to sit in it.... but, you can likely find one closer.

Charley

[RussMcB]

Right -- the Radical seats are FIA-approved, so I think safety isn't a significant concern.

I'm really looking for an option to make the seat more comfortable. I've got enough 'glass skills to hack up the seat myself, but then I'll lose any notion of FIA approval.

A buddy of mine recently cut his Radical seat into two halves and added a center section to make it wider. It turned out well. He also did a foam insert later.

[S Lathrop]

I, along with Dr. Terry Trammel, were expert witnesses for the plaintiff in a law suite. The plaintiff was a quadriplegic resulting from an accident in a Spec Racer. His injuries were the result a seat that was less than a perfect fit. One thing that was not good about the seat was the amount of padding he had to use to fit properly. For him, the seat should have been removed and replaced with something that fit him properly.

I survived a very sever crash in a Titan MK 6 with out injury only because I had replaced the original fiberglass seat with one that was built from .060 aluminum and was formed to my body. I drove the car with no padding in the seat.

Infinitely better is a bead seat or, lacking that, a rigid foam seat. Both seats are molded around the driver and there is no padding involved. And, very important, the driver's spine should be supported all the way up to and including the helmet. There should be no gap from the top of the shoulders to the back of the head/helmet. This support for the neck should be there when the helmet is against the head rest. All of the padding in that line along the spine to the head should be equally dense. This detail for support of the spine came from Trammel's experience treating patients from race car accidents. Done right, the seat will reduce stress on the body as the car is driven in a race and that is a good thing.

I would get rid of the plastic seat and build a proper bead seat for any car you race.

[a. pettipas]

I, along with Dr. Terry Trammel, were expert witnesses for the plaintiff in a law suite. The plaintiff was a quadriplegic resulting from an accident in a Spec Racer. His injuries were the result a seat that was less than a perfect fit. One thing that was not good about the seat was the amount of padding he had to use to fit properly. For him, the seat should have been removed and replaced with something that fit him properly.

I survived a very sever crash in a Titan MK 6 with out injury only because I had replaced the original fiberglass seat with one that was built from .060 aluminum and was formed to my body. I drove the car with no padding in the seat.

Infinitely better is a bead seat or, lacking that, a rigid foam seat. Both seats are molded around the driver and there is no padding involved. And, very important, the driver's spine should be supported all the way up to and including the helmet. There should be no gap from the top of the shoulders to the back of the head/helmet. This support for the neck should be there when the helmet is against the head rest. All of the padding in that line along the spine to the head should be equally dense. This detail for support of the spine came from Trammel's experience treating patients from race car accidents. Done right, the seat will reduce stress on the body as the car is driven in a race and that is a good thing.

I would get rid of the plastic seat and build a proper bead seat for any car you race.

Great post Steve. As discussed previously in this thread the EIS foam (not 'rigid') seating system is also very worthy of consideration, not least it is multi-impact, not one-impact like a bead seat, and waaay easier to make one relative to bead.

The impression I'm getting reading the OP's posts: 'I hear you guys (but not really), thanks but I am willfully ignoring great advice and suggestions that could save me from grievous injury and will use the factory POS fibreglass seat; I mean the FIA put their sticker on it, I'll be safe, right??'

[parsonsj]

The impression I'm getting reading the OP's posts: 'I hear you guys (but not really), thanks but I am willfully ignoring great advice and blah blah blah'

You've got the wrong impression.

I've read every link and every post in this thread more than once.

You don't know it, but I've been on your side of this discussion with others in Pro-Touring cars (typically late 60s American cars that sometimes make it to the race track). I'm the fellow helping to educate them on such issues as belt angles, proper welding, HANS devices, roll-cage design and the like. I've even consulted with Joe Marko at HMS Motorsports on a project dealing with proper seat, cage, and harness locations and fabrication.

Enough of that.

I'm new here (and a new Radical owner) so I've got a lot to learn. I really do appreciate the advice, links, and general discussion. Along with reading this thread, and talking with the guys at HMS, I'm going to attend the Radical Masters event at Sebring and talk with the guys about seats and what they are doing. I'm trying to get as much information as possible about solving my seat problem.

Whatever I decide to do about my seats, I'll post it here, and we can discuss it.

Any links or how-tos are most welcome.

thanks!

John

[a. pettipas]

My very good friend, Robert Burgess, is president of Radical Canada; I've spent some time around that operation and have yet to see a Radical of any sort with:
a) anything but factory fibreglass seat
b) adequate head/shoulder restraint
c) adequate protection on the roll bar downtube

I think Radical fully subscribes to the 'it has an FIA tag, it's cool' philosophy so I'm not sure what direction you will get from the dealers/prep shops but hopefully some of them are doing the right thing and have engineered a solution to include an EIS foam/bead seat. Admittedly I did not check out the seating in the Wisko and Stradale cars at the big Can-Am Radical event at Mosport last summer.

[a. pettipas]

You've got the wrong impression.

I've read every link and every post in this thread more than once.

You don't know it, but I've been on your side of this discussion with others in Pro-Touring cars (typically late 60s American cars that sometimes make it to the race track). I'm the fellow helping to educate them on such issues as belt angles, proper welding, HANS devices, roll-cage design and the like. I've even consulted with Joe Marko at HMS Motorsports on a project dealing with proper seat, cage, and harness locations and fabrication.

Enough of that.

I'm new here (and a new Radical owner) so I've got a lot to learn. I really do appreciate the advice, links, and general discussion. Along with reading this thread, and talking with the guys at HMS, I'm going to attend the Radical Masters event at Sebring and talk with the guys about seats and what they are doing. I'm trying to get as much information as possible about solving my seat problem.

Whatever I decide to do about my seats, I'll post it here, and we can discuss it.

Any links or how-tos are most welcome.

thanks!

John

This says to me that you have no excuse not to throw the fibreglass seat in the trash... seriously not trying to give you a hard time but you are in possession of a serious race car that requires a proper, safe seating system.

[Purple Frog]

I truly believe I'm walking and talking and posting on Apexspeed because on Sept. 25, 2005 I had a good foam seat and a HANS device.

Some of us are a bit serious on this subject.

[parsonsj]

Thanks guys. I'll call Butler and ask about fitment. It's vital that I keep two seats in the car... I need the coaching.

Maybe an aluminum seat can be narrower than 'glass/cf/kevlar on the outer dimension and still big enough for my 200 lb ass?

I'm hopeful the Wisko guys will come down to Sebring; they did last year.

[CharleyH]

This says to me that you have no excuse not to throw the fibreglass seat in the trash... seriously not trying to give you a hard time but you are in possession of a serious race car that requires a proper, safe seating system.

Have you worked much with Radicals? Many use bead seat or foam inserts on top of the fiberglass seats. I am not an expert on foam seats, but because the Radicals have 2 seats and are so wide I would think it would be difficult to get a foam (only) seat set up safely in the car. I am sure someone has tried it, but I have never seen it done in an SR3 or 8 (or a Porsche, Corvette, etc). It seems like the generally recommended approach is to build on the FIA approved base rather than starting from scratch.

Charley

[S Lathrop]

Have you worked much with Radicals? Many use bead seat or foam inserts on top of the fiberglass seats. I am not an expert on foam seats, but because the Radicals have 2 seats and are so wide I would think it would be difficult to get a foam (only) seat set up safely in the car. I am sure someone has tried it, but I have never seen it done in an SR3 or 8 (or a Porsche, Corvette, etc). It seems like the generally recommended approach is to build on the FIA approved base rather than starting from scratch.

Charley

Foam seats are less expensive option to bead seats. Both seat types have to be built into some type of container. In the case of a tube frame formula car, the tubes on the sides may serve well enough but it is way better to have a metal panel to surround the seat.

Someone mentioned carbon fiber as a seat material. I have been around enough crashed carbon fiber parts and I have shed enough blood working with the stuff to know that I will not have any carbon fiber parts that can come in contact with a driver in a crash. That includes seats and interior panels. Now if someone can say with absolute certainty that a carbon fiber part will not fracture in a severe wreck and come in contact with the driver then you might get away with it.

[parsonsj]

An update:

Spring Mountain is sending me a pretty heavily used wide seat. I'll check that out and see if it's a suitable short term replacement for my standard seat.

I also talked with Keith at Butler-built, and after some consulting they think they can make me an aluminum replacement seat. I've got some measurements and pictures to take, plus I'm going to send them my standard seat to help ensure they get all the angles right and see if we can fit two of their seats in my two-seater cabin.

Next week is the Radical Masters event at Sebring, so I'll be down there talking to some of the racers about their seats, especially if I see any non-factory seat.

[a. pettipas]

Foam seats are less expensive option to bead seats. Both seat types have to be built into some type of container. In the case of a tube frame formula car, the tubes on the sides may serve well enough but it is way better to have a metal panel to surround the seat.

Steve - and anyone else not familiar with EIS foam seating - apart from also being a 2-part pourable material this stuff is vastly different to the relatively cheap marine foam we used to use; EIS does not take a back 'seat' to bead in performance, or price... check it out, first link compares EIS to other options...

https://www.rollbarpadding.com/product/id-23

https://www.rollbarpadding.com/capabilities

[parsonsj]

Johnny Cichowski of OG Racing is going to make me an EIS foam seat insert. I'm meeting him at Road Atlanta next month. I'll post some pictures of how that turns out.

http://www.ogracing.com/bsci-eis-w50...eat-insert-kit

So now for my next question: how do you Radical guys strap the car down in your trailers? I was on the phone with Mac's Tie Downs and recommeded their Versa-Trac and wheel straps or nets. I'm familiar with that setup, but was wondering if you guys did something else?

thanks!

[SEComposites]

When I raced a radical in the U.K. I made up some transport wheel nuts. Basically longer nuts with an eyelet welded on the end to attach straps to e-track in the floor. I used the same method for my F1000 on transport wheels. Quick and easy way to secure the car.

[parsonsj]

Something like this? I have two of them that came with the car.

[SEComposites]

That's the ticket!

[CharleyH]

This is how I strap mine down. I use two straps on each rear weel to hold the car in place and then the straps in the front have light tension. I use the double strps in the rear so I don't have to load the front suspension.

Charley