SCCA Runoffs survey

[gbmetcalf]

Did everyone get a survey about grouping classes at the Runoffs?
In the survey it states they are grouping classes to give everyone more track time. It states "We know in a perfect world, we all would have single-class sessions. However some classes will be combined." My question is this for practice sessions or the races? No where in the survey does it state if the combining of classes is during practices or races. Can anyone enlighten me on what the powers to be's plans are? I'd really hate to have our Runoffs championship race determined by another faster class like fords or 500s.

G.

[B Farnham]

I just answered the survey saying that FV will have enough entries to have its own run group and that it's not really safe to run with FF or F5. The speed differential is just too great especially with that many cars on track at the same time. Hopefully the largest classes will still get their own run groups this year.

[gbmetcalf]

I just answered the survey saying that FV will have enough entries to have its own run group and that it's not really safe to run with FF or F5. The speed differential is just too great especially with that many cars on track at the same time. Hopefully the largest classes will still get their own run groups this year.

That's pretty close to what I said. But the write up said they weren't asking us if we wanted to be grouped with another class. Just who would you want to be grouped with.

[Chris Robson]

I answered along the same lines Brian. I can't see that it would even be possible to combine FV with any other class. I guess you could look at this as a call to action to all FV drivers to come out and race. If Indy can hold 70 to 75 cars, I would think we would need 55 to 60 car to ensure it's own run group. Considering that we consistently provide 40+ cars each Runoff, we should be be able to get our own group. It seems odd that the SCCA is bringing this up again, as I remember a few years back when they first figured out that they had more classes than time, posted a survey along the same lines. I thought the consensus was shorter sessions, but separate run groups.

[Diamond Level Motorsports]

My plan right now is to bring two FV's to the runoffs in 2017. I will wait and see what the actual schedule looks like before making my final decision. If they combine FV and any other class I will not be coming. If the schedule is similar to this years schedule at Mid Ohio with 75-80 minutes of track time over the entire event I will most likely not come. The cost for these events compared to the, time commitment, travel cost, and track time ratio, just isn't enough value for me.

I do plan on coming to the SVRA World Formula car event in June. Roughly the same cost as the runoffs and 2-3 times the track time. Additionally there is the Super Tour race at Road America the following weekend which we are planning to also attend.

To me there are many other clubs offering way more value, per racing dollar spent, then SCCA at this time. I am not sure if SCCA understands that. Virtually everyone I know that has left SCCA over the last 5 years has left for this exact reason.

[Hardingfv32]

....I thought the consensus was shorter sessions, but separate run groups.

It is until you see how few and how short those actual sessions are. It sounds reasonable at normal events but takes on a different look when you talk about the Runoffs.

Brian

[Hardingfv32]

To me there are many other clubs offering way more value, per racing dollar spent, then SCCA at this time. I am not sure if SCCA understands that. Virtually everyone I know that has left SCCA over the last 5 years has left for this exact reason.

All the other clubs are just providing you track time. They are just fine if you want to experience various tracks. True competition in a modern FV is only available with SCCA.

Virtually everyone you know has limited racing budgets. Those with unlimited budgets or 'bucket list' track desires are not leaving the club.

SCCA's current business model is as valid as any they might want to choose at the current time.

Brian

[Diamond Level Motorsports]

All the other clubs are just providing you track time. They are just fine if you want to experience various tracks. True competition in a modern FV is only available with SCCA.

Obviously.......

Virtually everyone you know has limited racing budgets. Those with unlimited budgets or 'bucket list' track desires are not leaving the club.

SCCA's current business model is as valid as any they might want to choose at the current time.


Brian

I'm not referring to those people with unlimited budgets, I'm referring to the blue collar racer that is disappearing. You know, the blue collar racer that was the foundation of this club for the last 50 years.

Is SCCA's business model for the future to just cater to the rich? Maybe........

I don't think anyone really knows what SCCA's business model is. Maybe not even SCCA......

[Daryl DeArman]

All the other clubs are just providing you track time. They are just fine if you want to experience various tracks. True competition in a modern FV is only available with SCCA.

Virtually everyone you know has limited racing budgets. Those with unlimited budgets or 'bucket list' track desires are not leaving the club.

I call horsesheiot.

True competition in a modern FV is available anywhere a large group of modern FV's with serious drivers chose to show up. The initials of the sanctioning body have zero to do with the competition level, it's who shows up and with what that determines the competition level.

Everybody has a budget limited to the finite amount of money they have, no matter how large/small that pile of money is, it's limited. It comes down to the priorities and the perceived value someone gets in return for the money spent on racing. Less than 1-1/2 hours of track time spread over an entire week is somebody placing a huge value on the experience. It certainly isn't about the tangible value of the win.

[Chris Robson]

I think we need to look at the actual issue at hand, track time at the Runoffs. Now I am not going to start a debate as to whether it is worth it, or not, to go. That decision rests entirely on the individual.

What has been presented, to ALL SCCA classes, is what groups are you comfortable being combined with for practice/qualifying. FV was included, and provided with the choice of the 2 other classes we are most often paired with at Majors. I feel the chances of us being combined with another class is highly unlikely, if at all.

The fact remains, this is the Runoffs. Go for the racing, go for the partying, go for the experience, but don't go for the track time. Indy presents a unique opportunity, that in essence, does not allow anyone a "home track" advantage. Yes, some can go and run the SVRA event, but remember we are talking about FV and the people who participate in the class. If you are going to the Runoffs to win, then you will do whatever it takes to win, if you are going to see how you stack up against the best FV drivers from across the US, then do that. The amount of track time we get is going to be the same for everyone in our class. If you are really serious about wanting to run at the sharp end of the grid, all of your testing and homework and preparation will have already been done and all you are doing is looking for that one clear lap...

I for one am going to do whatever I can to ensure that I maximize the track time provided and then maximize the downtime I have because I brought a FV to the Runoffs and after I check the valves, my work is done for the day!

[Hardingfv32]

...You know, the blue collar racer that was the foundation of this club for the last 50 years.

Is SCCA's business model for the future to just cater to the rich? Maybe........

I don't think anyone really knows what SCCA's business model is. Maybe not even SCCA......

There is no evidence that SCCA was ever 'at its base' a blue collar organization. The first members were all certainly wealth. Blue collars by definition did not own sportscars in the 40-50's.

The SCCA and sportscar racing in general have become a rich man's sport. It is what it is and there is nothing that SCCA can do about it. The economy and track/racing costs are all out of SCCA's hands.

Brian

[Diamond Level Motorsports]

Brian,

I could easily make a argument that the top subscribed classes FV, FF, SM, SRF gen 2-3, in SCCA are all what I would call blue collar classes. Not sure how you define blue collar but it doesn't mean poor.

[Roux]

I wrote in that they should consider FF with FC if anything. FV will be very well subscribed and FF hopefully as well. Makes NO sense then to put them together and turn racers away due to field limits.

FF with F5 is not fun. Too many similar laptimes with impact to class battles in either direction.

I am planning on doing my one and only Runoffs this year so I felt justified in chiming in

Steve

[jhenn4716]

Sticking to the original question, what did you think about combining groups. The obvious two, at least according to the survey was FF and F5. With enough numbers we should be safe from being combined. We had 38 cars entered this year. There were 23 cars in FA, FB, and FC combined. There are certainly classes who could see their practices combined, but with enough numbers ours shouldn't. It is Indy after all, maybe more drivers will come out to race a historic track.

The rest of the points that were brought up, all very valid, but lets talk about those in a different area.