No NARRC Off

[EACIII]

Just saw the 2017 New East Division schedule and there is no NARRC Off at Lime Rock this year. In fact there is only one SCCA event at the track (NER in June). Having grown up racing at Lime Rock it hard to watch it become a track day / vintage track and no longer a place to race.

I remember doing 8 weeks at the track back in the day.

Ed

[Terry Hanushek]

Ed

Yes .. It certainly is hard to imagine that the Road Racing Capital of the East is becoming the Track Day Capital of the East

Sad

Terry

[Will Velkoff]

Are you serious? That was my favorite event of the year.

And the best part about it was we had lots of fans in the local cub scouts, possibly the future Club Racers of SCCA. They always had a great time camping out at the track, and bringing home dirty old tires home to their Moms

[EACIII]

This year the Cub Scouts were at the VSCCA event that was on the date of the old NARRC as the NARRC off was in August. This year it is not even on the schedule.

I am thinking of writing a letter to Skip to whine about it, not that it will do any good.

Ed

[mmi16]

Has Barber priced Lime Rock rental prices beyond what SCCA racers will to pay?

[H.L.Tallman]

Has Barber priced Lime Rock rental prices beyond what SCCA racers will to pay?

It is that vicious circle again. Lime rock is my home track. MoHud is my home. They stopped doing events at LRP after loosing money at every race they put on year after year. NER has had there moments too. In fact the NY region had to step up and help NER last year to put on the NARRC. Used to have practice days on Tuesdays all the time. Then the price kept going up and up. Last year it was close to 300 dollars for a practice day that couldn't start until noon because of the state regs. There wasn't 12 cars in the big bore open wheel group or any other group either. We had 2 practice days last year. Yes there were 3 but in the wisdom of LRP they scheduled the last practice day one week after the NARRC...................thanks. Throw in the weather. LRP has its own. I have driven threw the rain to within 10 miles of the track and had no rain all day long at the track. Then drove home in the rain. But who is going to take the chance. Same with the race weekend. Weekend isn't really what it is. In Ct you have to race on Friday and Sat because you can't race on Sunday. Tuesday practice day, race Friday and Sat. Wed. Thurs. ??? Doesn't make for a lot of people to travel from to far away. Entry fees over 400 dollars for a race. I've stood in the paddock with it raining so hard you couldn't see the tower and that was forecast as partly cloudy. Again the expense of going just isn't worth it to most that do not live close by. On the other hand all these vintage and track day cars have mufflers and are quiet. They all can run in the morning and on Sundays all week long. They can fill the paddock , well A paddock, every day. The LRP club has there instructors that show up all the time. They pay big bucks for the day and if it is really bad with weather the next day is full. Skippy School has a full schedule also. Since I have joined MoHud years ago the racing numbers have gone way down. The membership is good but cars that actually race the SCCA race schedule are few. I would bet less then 12 for the whole chapter. They have all gone to solo or the other easier , cheaper groups to race. NER has there own schedule that works very well without LRP and the cost. They have Thompson that very much tries to work with them to put on all the races at a reasonable price. Palmer is coming on line also as a venue for NER. NHMS is still used and I have no idea why. They do nothing for the club and the track surface sucks. The travel to places in the northeast have become Watkins Glen and NJ. NJ puts on a great show and as far as I am concerned WG is just a great place to race. Although they to are headed down the LRP road to pissing off enough racers they won't show up. And as LRP they don't care. there weeks are full of those track days and vintage cars throwing hands full of money at them for half as much effort as they have to provide for an SCCA event. The structure of racing puts a lo of demands on the participants. Time, money equipment, logistics all take its toll on the industry. There are not the numbers in any one area that can compete with the ease of just loading and going to a track day or vintage event at the last moment. My bet is the NARRC is run at NJ next year. Its the only place I see that might be willing to do it. Great my 2 hour drive just turned into 7.
HT

[RobLav]

It's been a few years since I was on the NER BOD and forget the exact rental at LRP, but it was something like $50K for the Friday / Saturday. We in the region felt fortunate when the LRP events broke $$ even.

But this is precisely why both Thompson and Palmer came to be. The developers of those tracks saw the continuing rise in costs of renting LRP and the crappy service / track at NHMS and recognized a market opportunity. At the time (2007-2009), our NER BOD sortof split between focusing on Palmer and Thompson. I focused more on the Palmer thing and drew up the layout that pretty much exists today (with a few minor alterations due to costs / wetlands / and Freddie's funky kink at the last lefthander corner to slow the cars down). They asked me to look at developing a layout for Thompson, but I guess they didn't like my ideas so Mike Rand ended up doing it.

Bottom line is that those in the NARRC ought to feel fortunate that you even have options beyond the high cost of LRP and the crappy surface at NHMS. At the time, we were very concerned that we would soon have nothing.

[problemchild]

The viability of any business is based on supply and demand. When state regulations limit supply to 3 non-consecutive days, two of which are work days for your consumers, the supply is capped below half its potential, and it's competition. Is it any surprise that costs are prohibitive?

I think it is incredible that the track has lasted this long as a prominent SCCA facility.

[jpetillo]

LRP is on the NER schedule this year.

[rickb99]

.... I think it is incredible that the track has lasted this long as a prominent SCCA facility.

It's because of all of the 'important people' who live close to there. Briggs Cunningham family, Paul Newman, Sam Posey and other notable people from SCCA live in the area. They are not only respected in their community but also internationally known. (and in some cases dead)

[H.L.Tallman]

LRP is on the NER schedule this year.

John yes but only one race all year for SCCA and that's it.

[jpetillo]

John yes but only one race all year for SCCA and that's it.

Yes, I know it's only this one SCCA race at LRP this year. I think the mistake made last year that ended up with the low turnout was having the NARCOFFS in August, as opposed to at the end of the racing event year. For NER folks, there are still two other races after that. No doubt that was due to scheduling issues on someone's part.

However, I believe that LRP is still the largest field NER sees during the season - or very close to it.

John

[EACIII]

Looking over schedules for 2017 I see that EMRA has an event at Lime Rock on Saturday Oct 7, 2017. Why is it that a small club like EMRA can make a Lime Rock event work but the SCCA can't. Would have been a good date for the NARRC Off.

Ed

[H.L.Tallman]

Looking over schedules for 2017 I see that EMRA has an event at Lime Rock on Saturday Oct 7, 2017. Why is it that a small club like EMRA can make a Lime Rock event work but the SCCA can't. Would have been a good date for the NARRC Off.

Ed

I just talked to someone in the know about the NARRC series and the runoffs. I was told that NYR lost quit a bit of money last year on the NARRC Runoffs. BTW I was scolded harshly for misspeaking in my earlier post about NYR helping NER with the NARRC last year. Actually the NARRC has been run solely by the NYR for most or all of the years it has been around. Back to what I was told. So loosing money is what happens to most all groups that try to run a race at LRP. Not only did the NYR loose money on the NARRC but in general there was very low participation in the NARRC series over the last few years. It has been so down that the whole NARRC series and the runoffs have been cancelled for next year with no return planned for the future.

[Pi_guy]

Looking over schedules for 2017 I see that EMRA has an event at Lime Rock on Saturday Oct 7, 2017. Why is it that a small club like EMRA can make a Lime Rock event work but the SCCA can't. Would have been a good date for the NARRC Off.

Ed

most likely a Time trial

[FVRacer21]

I ran the "last" NARRC Runoff and was disappointed in the turnout.

The NARRC Runoffs used to attract 300 cars. at $300 per entry that should raise $90,000, but 140 "entries" at $475 is only $68K+, probably a break even after All expenses including the track, insurance, trophies, food, supplies etc are taken into account.

With hindsight, the reasons why it should have been a success, were not publicized. In August, it was not likely to be the NARRC "Rainoffs", It would not come AFTER the National championship, where many cars were put away. It would not take a Friday away from people AFTER school had started. In other words, this could have been the East Coast version of the June Sprints.

Ironically, if it was this year and they ran a sanctioned race on Friday and one on Saturday, it might have drawn a lot more due to the new Runoffs qualifying rules. It would be a "Major".

Now where have the drivers gone? Well many have gone to Chumpcar or LeMons. Take 100 cars with 3 drivers in each one, and there are more than enough to fill the field back up.

Disclaimer - I have not been to such a "race" and have no interest - if looking at the video's of the "races", I feel it is more a social event than a "race". Fine, but do not call it racing. My opinion. NER has tried to put together formal endurance races and no one seems to be interested. Some people will blame the SCCA but I cannot see it. With the FV group here in NE we have worked with the SCCA Regions and the honest communication goes a long way.

Times change and the competition between the tracks (good thing) gives the regions some options. The number of tracks (too much of a good thing?) means that the numbers will be down at each race, unless the regions work together and limit the number of races (which is inevitable)

Lime Rock does have a regional in June, and whether it is a success depends on the drivers supporting the region and the race. I suggest we do as the only number less than 1 is zero.

ChrisZ

[jpetillo]

Chris, you outlined nicely why the NARCOFFS should have been a success. I had not thought of that way - all valid points. The problem is the perhaps that no one else did either.

Also, there was the Palmer race a few weeks later, after the NARCOFFS (I forget how many), and I remember seeing folks cancel their LRP entries as it got close to the race weekend and signing up for the Palmer race - no doubt due to seeing Palmer attracting bigger fields in their classes. For FV, that Palmer race was one of the NEFV Series races, so if you could only handle one of those two races - Palmer won out.

I think the NARCOFFS drew lot of folks in the past because it was the last race of the year, regionally, and that race with double points is an incentive to try to come out on top if you were close. It all worked! I think your idea of this being the NorthEast Sprints is a good one. They need to find a way to make it different - make it somehow unique - and market it.

Another point against the NARCOFFS being successful when holding it in August or even late September is that Thompson is now holding the latest race of the season in the NER in early October, and that is naturally the Championship weekend for NER, since not all championships will be decided before that.

For LRP to regain status I like the idea of the Northeast Sprints - make it a big deal. Otherwise the Regions would have to work together to figure out how to make the NARCOFFS at LRP work. The Regions have enough work on their plates and negotiating race weekends with the tracks compressed into a few months time at best that the two regions trying to sort out how to also make NARCOFFS at LRP work again would be difficult.

John