1960s LeGrand-Saab?

[Rick Kirchner]

So I was getting some welding done here in Jacksonville at the only shop that does TIG, and the guy (in his 40s) took one look at the stuff and asked if it came off a FF. Turns out his dad had some race cars back when he was a kid - specifically....

A 1960s LeGrand with a 2-stroke Saab motor. I've been trying to figure out what class it must have run in FC? FJ? He said that only 3 or so were built and it was a total POS....

anybody seen one of these?

[Paulie]

This was on bring a trailer last (legrand)year powered by a bmw, f4 was the class.

[Bob L.]

There was a Formula S back in 67 or 68.... a "factory" sponsored program, using 3 cyl. Saab. Also, ran in Formula 4 in other places. Don't recall if LeGrand was involved....perhaps it was open to multiple mfgrs?

Believe Sports Car Graphic had a big feature when they first rolled out.

Knew of a couple of guys that had them... Randy Cook, was the last owner that I recall. He was with the International Motorsports Museum at the Glen for a while, wrote a book on Bowtie Ferraris. Might try a search for him, if you really want more info.

Also, the 3 cyl. Saabs were killers in HMod and later DSR's....of course Legrand was big in those classes.

Still can "smell" the bean oil in my memory.... Ring, a ding, a ding.... Saabs....a very sensory experience...hope folks today can find others....

Bob L.

[DanW]

There was a Formula S back in 67 or 68.... a "factory" sponsored program, using 3 cyl. Saab. Also, ran in Formula 4 in other places. Don't recall if LeGrand was involved....perhaps it was open to multiple mfgrs?

Believe Sports Car Graphic had a big feature when they first rolled out.

Knew of a couple of guys that had them... Randy Cook, was the last owner that I recall. He was with the International Motorsports Museum at the Glen for a while, wrote a book on Bowtie Ferraris. Might try a search for him, if you really want more info.

Also, the 3 cyl. Saabs were killers in HMod and later DSR's....of course Legrand was big in those classes.

Still can "smell" the bean oil in my memory.... Ring, a ding, a ding.... Saabs....a very sensory experience...hope folks today can find others....

Bob L.

The LeGrand F4s used the BMW engine and running gear. Curt DelFosse built about a dozen F4 cars in San Diego using NSU Sport Prinz running gear. I had one for several years.

[pooch776]

Maybe it was a LeGrand MKII H Modified? They used Saab engines.

http://dsr.racer.net/chassis/legrand/history.htm

Cheers, Joe

[Rick Kirchner]

That's what I thought but he distinctly remembers it being open wheel. I'm thinking a Mk 3 FC.

[Daryl DeArman]

Rick,

I believe Jeff Ireland used to have one in his shop....maybe he still does. It was an old F4 car if I recall correctly.

On a related note, I was up at Mt. Baldy lodge a few months ago for breakfast and saw a whole swarm of Saab Sonnet's there. I don't know how many were v4's and how many were 2-strokes, but I am sure J&B Imports in Orange was keeping most of them alive.

[Rick Kirchner]

The guy that lived across the street from me in 1976 had one with a V-4. Bright yellow. Thought that was the sexiest thing until the Farrah Faucett poster came along.

Do you know if Jeff's was a Saab or BMW? I'll have to ask him at UofV.

[Daryl DeArman]

Do you know if Jeff's was a Saab or BMW? I'll have to ask him at UofV.

No, I don't. I only saw it on a stand one time. I had forgotten about it until this thread.

[Jerry B.]

Jeff's LeGrand has a BMW air cooled motor. He told me it and a very few (3 or4) were made by LeGrand and were called F4. As I remember he had it out one time about 2 years ago at WSIR. I think he still has it.

[Daryl DeArman]

Jeff's LeGrand has a BMW air cooled motor.

I should have known.... Hope all is well with you JB!

[Bob L.]

Ran across this site...thought it might be of interest.

http://www.formulasaab.com/

Bob L.

[FormulaSAAB]

Ran across this site...thought it might be of interest.

http://www.formulasaab.com/

Bob L.

That is my site... Let me know if you have any questions. :-)

As for the LeGrand with a SAAB engine, it could have run as a Formula C or as a Formula Junior, depending on the year it raced.

The Quantum Formula S (it is confusing, as the class of Formula S never got off the ground and never had a race of its own, but the car was referred to as the "Formula S") raced mostly in Formula C during its day (Bill Rutan used a Forumla S to win the FC championship in 1967), and once in Formula Junior at Lime Rock in 1964.

So, the question is, what year did the LeGrand race?

[Stan Clayton]

I had a red '66 Saab Monte Carlo 850 (the last full model year with the 3-cyl 2-stroke) back in the mid-seventies. Fun little car, and would have made a great open wheeler.

[RussMcB]

I had a red '66 Saab Monte Carlo 850 (the last full model year with the 3-cyl 2-stroke) back in the mid-seventies. Fun little car, and would have made a great open wheeler.

I wonder what that might look like with some Dauntless aero upgrades. :-)

[Stan Clayton]

I wonder what that might look like with some Dauntless aero upgrades. :-)

Better than this one.



/threadjack...

[Christopher Crowe]

A 1960s LeGrand with a 2-stroke Saab motor. I've been trying to figure out what class it must have run in FC? FJ? He said that only 3 or so were built and it was a total POS....

I raced a Lotus 23 sports racer with an 850 3 cylinder Saab engine in D/SR in the early Seventies.

Did Le Grand produce an S/R chassis? If so, the category would have been D/SR. To my recollection, the formula car classes were F/C at 1000ccs, F/B at 1600 ccs, then the five liter F/A cars... nothing around 850ccs.

In the day, these were potent little engines. The head could be easily milled as far as you dared. I think we were seeing around 90 hp back in the day with these units.

Chris

[Stan Clayton]

Did Le Grand produce an S/R chassis? If so, the category would have been D/SR. To my recollection, the formula car classes were F/C at 1000ccs, F/B at 1600 ccs, then the five liter F/A cars... nothing around 850ccs.

Yes, first as an H-Mod, which morphed into DSR. See Joe's link in post #5 above. And remember that 2-strokes have always had different displacement limits to 4-strokes.

[BLS]

"So I was getting some welding done here in Jacksonville at the only shop that does TIG,"

Fred Clark could probably help in the future:

http://www.caracalcars.com/index.htm

[provamo]

a side note : my dad's two stroke Sonnet is a joy

[Frank C]

Saab took a 2-stroke Sonnet on tour across the US before it went on sale. I can't remember the year, but I got a ride in it when it came through a dealer on Lake Street around Elmhurst, IL.
Frank C

[mmi16]

"So I was getting some welding done here in Jacksonville at the only shop that does TIG,"

Fred Clark could probably help in the future:

http://www.caracalcars.com/index.htm

Jacksonville, NC and Jacksonville, FL are several hundred miles apart.

I can vouch for the quality of Fred Clark's work in Jacksonville, FL

[HayesCages]

I raced a Lotus 23 sports racer with an 850 3 cylinder Saab engine in D/SR in the early Seventies.

Did Le Grand produce an S/R chassis? If so, the category would have been D/SR. To my recollection, the formula car classes were F/C at 1000ccs, F/B at 1600 ccs, then the five liter F/A cars... nothing around 850ccs.

In the day, these were potent little engines. The head could be easily milled as far as you dared. I think we were seeing around 90 hp back in the day with these units.

Chris

We most likely had that chassis in our shop a few years ago. A Spokane, WA guy owns it now. It had a Saab 3 cyl. in it when it won the SCCA nationals in the 60's. It has a Ford 1500 push rod engine in it now but the owner has sourced a 6 speed Hewland in hopes of taking it back to the Saab power plant someday.

[gerhard_k]

If you really mean a 6-speed, and it wasn't just an adjacent-key typo, that would certainly not be period-correct. In fact, though I would hardly claim to know a lot of racing history, I've never seen a 6-speed Hewland. Is there really such a device?

- Gerhard

[Stan Clayton]

If you really mean a 6-speed, and it wasn't just an adjacent-key typo, that would certainly not be period-correct. In fact, though I would hardly claim to know a lot of racing history, I've never seen a 6-speed Hewland. Is there really such a device?

- Gerhard

Yep. Even ignoring the new 6-sp Hewlands, back in the day you could get the parts to build a 5- or 6-sp Mk-series.

[pooch776]

Gerhard,

Yup. Hewland Mk-7 six speed.

Cheers, Joe

[john f]

Did the 6 speed have a reverse or was that where the sixth gear came from?

john f

[Charlie Schmidt]

first moved into the reverse spot, and the stack went on from there

[HayesCages]

We have one in the shop now. 1st is really skinny, about 8mm wide.