i'd like to place a Mazda 13b rotary engine in a 1995 VanDiemen with a Hewland LD201.
Anyone know of any successful installs. The transmission input shaft is about 2 inches to low and does not line up with the engine.
Rotary 13b engine install
i'd like to place a Mazda 13b rotary engine in a 1995 VanDiemen with a Hewland LD201.
Anyone know of any successful installs. The transmission input shaft is about 2 inches to low and does not line up with the engine.
Why?
And the LD200 is most likely not strong enough. It would barely handle an unrestricted Zetec.
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In memory of Joe Stimola and Glenn Phillips
The transmission in a formula mazda is not 'inverted' like a formula ford (raises the input shagft). If you have a mk9, invert it back to a 'vw' position or find a formula mazda trans. Not sure if an ld200 can be flipped
-John Allen
Tacoma, WA
'82 Royale RP31M
(‘72 Royale RP16 stolen in 2022)
From RX7 Club forum: When this motor was used in the Gen 2 cars it was improved in 1986 to 146hp@6500 and 138@3500 of torque. The engine was further improved and in 1989 it was capable of 160@7000 and 140@4000 of torque.Originally Posted by Bob Wright
Even with competition porting, the torque barely increases. The gains are at higher revs. So the LD200 could probably handle that.
Turbocharged, it is a totally different animal.
Dave Weitzenhof
Buy a FM and be done. The LD won't like the rotary, and you'll not have enough radiator or oil cooler for a 13B in an FC. If the input shaft is that far off you are going to destroy the rear end's geometry and it will be a disaster. 2" off sounds like you measured with the stock pan, which would have to go in the recycle barrel in exchange for a dry sump ($$$). You'll also need a one-off bell-housing adapter, and likely a one-off input shaft.
I'd put a rotary engine in everything if I could, but this will be far more work than it's worth.
Last edited by reidhazelton; 10.14.16 at 11:32 AM.
That's stock with stock intakes and ECU - which there would be no room for in an FC. The ECU alone is huge compared to race ECUs. In most low buck swaps, guys toss the fuel injection and use a simple downdraft manifold and IDAs. With some basic porting it's not to hard to get 220hp out of them. They are still torque-less wonders, but more than the LD would be happy with I'd assume, over the long haul.
Yeah if the OP wants a project a RT-4, RT-5, or a Swift FA - at least the "architecture" is there to support the swap and there's an established path.
If you do this the shifter is now on the left side. In order to not change the cockpit (and shift with the left hand) you will need to obtain the Webster kit to move the shifter rail back to the right side. The FM cars already have it installed.
If you leave the mk9 as normal you will have to modify the motor to a dry sump and you will still have to raise the gearbox and motor an inch or so. The half-shafts will be at a downward angle. The suspension mounting points will have to be lowered to maintain geometry or change rear tire diameter (possible tire availability issues). There is a transmission adapter from Racing Beat to mate rotary to VW. It is made for standard VW orientation. If you run it inverted as a Mk9 the adaptor will have to be re drilled. The adapter is only 5/8" thick so a spacer will be needed to take up the extended bell housing distance.
I have done it both ways - lots of work and compromises either way.
Why not just hop up the Pinto? 185 HP would be a breeze.
I did on my 1991 VD FC. 200 HP
Be glad to share what I did to mine.
Yes, have had all kinds of opinions on how well the LD200 will hold up. Will find out for myself.
Aaron
the big question is WHY?
secondly this post belongs in some other section
what section does this post belong?
Why has nobody tried this?
I'd love to see someone push it to the limits. Adding power is cheap. #rulebookcansuckit
Sorry to bring back a old thread but has anyone done this? I actually looked into a rotary for the ld200 i recently bought.
has anyone done what? Put a rotary in a FC? All the answers as to why not are above - suspension geometry, lack of cooling, marginal life out of the LD.
There are some hillclimb guys that put rotaries in Reynards. That's a different conversation.
Why marginal life out the ld? Isn't it within the torque limit of the ld200, also I was not asking in a FC just asking why people say the ld won't be able to handle it, I am still new with the ld200 so hoping to understand why it won't handle it.
OK,
I have now ran a totally stock LD-200 (did not have it rebuilt, no special treatments etc,. have no idea how many racing hours were on it before I owned the car) for 11 races with a Pinto that puts out 200 hp and 140 ft-lbs of torque. The track I run on is 10 turns 1.8 miles with plenty of low speed torque corners.
Casualty: (1) 16:35 first gear - teeth were worn after one race. Gear did not fail, have no idea how old the gear was.
Notes: In my quest to research the question "how much torque/power" can the LD-200 handle I got answers all the way from "it will blow up on the first corner to it will be fine just keep an eye on it".
So, I DO take the transmission apart and check the wear on the gears and have a good look at the ring an pinion after every race. I do use the Red Line Heavy Shockproof oil. My opinion is that the LD-200 will handle WAY more torque and power than most think. But, if you go there, you have to stay on top of it. No more running the unit for and entire season w/o opening it up.
I am not an expert on the transmissions, nor a structural engineer, just sharing my real world experience with forum members.
Aaron
My brother and i have been doing this for 20 years, reid hazelton has it correct, the mods are crazy and costly. And i can tell you hands down the ld 200 will be letting ring and pinions go left and right, the only way is an mk9 with mk 5 internals. No other way, big rads. Big oil coolers multiple if you cant put big ones in. Sorry just not a good idea, most parts are one offs.
So the ld200 won't even be reliable with the torque rating the manufacturer has on it? Geez then why was this transmission so popular? If it can't even handle the 165 ft lbs the manufacturer design it for, sounds like i may have bought a piece of garbage
The problem here is your definition of what constitutes "what it will take". One of the reasons the LD is popular is because it is MUCH smaller and the case stroger than a mk9. Typically when you reach rated performance the costs go up and the lifetime goes down exponentially. The pinto made 90 hp in 1973 and lasted about 3000 hrs. 150 hp, about 40 hrs. Tune it to 300 hp and they last as little as 3 hrs. ****, a Tacoma pulled the Space Shuttle ONCE. Not sure if I want to buy that one on the used market. Like Buc said- it alldepends on how much time tiy want to spend wrenching on it.
Option 1; Spend years beating your head against the wall trying to stuff a 13B into an FC. You'll have 10's of thousands of dollars in it, and it won't be worth more than $8k.
Option 2; Go buy a FM for under $20k, or a PFM for $35k, and be out racing next weekend. If you want to get nuts, bridge port a FM for under $500 and you'll have an easy 250hp.
As to the what will it take debate - everything is designed with a safety factor. The rated torque for a gearbox is based on that safety factor. 1.5x? 2x? 20x? It will last decades with 120lbs of torque running through it. Will it handle 200 ft lbs? Maybe. But not for long.
Why not just buy a FM its already been done
Oooh, lookie he-uhh - the world's WORST turbo exhaust mani in ever!
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