Results - F500 Participant Survey
On behalf of the F500 Ad Hoc Committee, I am posting the results of the F500 Participant Survey. The three files below contain the results of quantifiable questions (yes/no, pick from list) and condensed answers to the free form questions (What do you think/recommend...?).
These results have also been delivered to the CRB and FSRAC.
Cory
-I really support and agree with the SCCA promoting F5 as the premier entry level open wheel class.
-I honestly believe the guys that are complaining they cant be competitive anymore "now" that the 4 cycle engines are allowed, never were competitive at a high level anyway.
-Car counts are down big time in every open wheel class, not just in F5. Tin tops are perceived to be safer and its easier to sell the idea of racing one to the wife. Also the SCCA format of wasting an entire weekend plus Friday and maybe Monday for the tow is just not a smart business plan.
-If car counts did fall off across the board I think F5 would most likely be affected more than other classes because its a entry level class. A lot of people who currently race Formula 500 operate on shoestring racing budgets and still barely make local club races. I know personally, if things went sideways financially for me racing would certainly be the FIRST thing to go. Plenty of guys who race F5 can barely afford new tires once a year, let alone hitting all the Majors and getting fresh pro-built engines, clutches, pipes, etc..each season.
Just my opinion
-Eric
Last edited by TDI PILOT; 09.19.16 at 11:59 AM.
AgreedOriginally Posted by TDI PILOT
Personally I feel like this is a viable option for getting new people into open wheel racing. The MC option feels like a really natural way for a prime pool of potential future open wheel drivers to enter the sport. Across the country there are 1000's of college kids currently working on similarly sized and powered cars for FSAE. They are already demonstrating they are the kids whiling to work on cars and care at some level about them. I feel like if you could convert even a small percentage of FSAE kids every year over to W2W racing the open wheel community would be better off all around.
Currently there is almost no connection between SAE and W2W racing. Most FSAE participants only know of the SCCA because it hosts the Autocrosses they practice at. I just think if there was one place to try to find some people who'd want to drive, build, and buy racecars this is where i'd start.
For some background, I recently converted a KBS to MC power and have been racing it. I went though FSAE several years ago and had I not known about Road racing before I would have had 0 exposure to the idea of W2W racing being accessible. We watched F1 and we made a few trips to watch ALMS, so they were interested in racing, but all they saw was that road racing was a multi-tractor trailer, 30 person crew, huge $$$ advertising sport. I'm working to get some of my friends racing, but there are 200 other teams that have no idea.
The entire purpose of the MC engine was to get new people into F500. It is doing just that but at a much slower rate than we had hoped for. I believe that this is primarily due to the economy.
I believe that the 2 stroke engine F500 are marvelous entry level race cars and I started racing them in 1985. My son Brian has won 2 of his 3 National Championships in F500 and we still love the class and I hope I can be back in it next year. The problem with the 2 stroke is that most potential new competitors to SCCA open wheel racing want to shift and not play with the clutch tuning. IMO there is nothing wrong with playing with the clutchs if that is what you want.
Right now, based on the Runoffs results, the engine performance was very close between the top 2 stroke and the top MC powered car. This is great IMO and I am hoping that F500 can grow again in the future and eventually become the premier entry level open wheel class in the SCCA as it is easily the fastest lowest cost entry level class in the SCCA.
Is F500 perfect? No it is not but we should all keep trying to make it the best.
So come on out and Let's race!
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
Agreed again
I agree with Jay. When I was looking at a class to get in to the SCCA I went with the F5 because of the cost effectiveness of the class. The class is lower cost compared to other classes and great fun to drive in. We got a 600 for a few different reasons. The first was the low cost of the engine and how many are out there for sale. Second was the easy tuning compared to the 2 strokes. I would rather work on my driving and car set up vs tuning a 2 stoke. I also enjoy the shifting and thought it would be good to learn for when I move up to other classes if I decide. They also sound amazing! Have you heard a pack of them running together? Its a great sound! I am surprised that the class has not taken off more but I think some of that is because of the disagreement between some of the 2 strokes. The rules change a little to often for my liking but hopefully that is done now as the cars seem very evenly matched.
I enjoyed my first half season and full season in 2016! I cant wait for 2017 and more MC powered cars!
I'm with Jay, with the current political situation/economy and Runoffs entry numbers in most open wheel classes (FV excluded), who would be thinking about buying an formula race car? And then we have the SCCA, also known as the "Secret Car Club of America" that seems intent on keeping it a secret. How many people in the country besides it's members even knew the Runoffs were happening last week? If the SCCA is going to survive it needs to do a little bit of promoting, IMHO. But then what do I know!
Scott Woodruff
83 RT5 Ralt/Scooteria Suzuki Formula S
(former) F440/F5/FF/FC/FA
65 FFR Cobra Roadster 4.6 DOHC
Could someone on the ad hoc committee summarize the take-away from this survey?
I was a little surprised by the 593 as the baseline results. I guess it is pretty clearly being voted to be the baseline for performance.
The MC engine airbox thing was also a surprise, especially after the Sept Fastrack that removed airbox restrictions on MC engines.
I doubt that the ad hoc committee is done.
The best 2 stroke won the Runoffs race in a great head to head battle with the best MC powered car and the 2 stroke was also .1 second faster in the RACE. However they did not manage to break Brian Novak's 2005 lap record set with a 494 motor.
Let's see what happens.
Thanks ... Jay Novak
313-445-4047
On my 54th year as an SCCA member
with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)
Jay is correct - the committee is definitely not finished! We are working multiple potential rule changes for 2017.
Tim - the committee is using the survey results as a strong indicator of the sentiments of class participants. We will not be publishing any additional summaries or analysis of the results. Everyone will just have to read the already-published summaries and draw their own conclusions.
The air box clarification that was published before the Runoffs was meant to specifically address a concern that was raised to the committee. Competitors planning to attend the Runoffs were concerned that it was not clear enough in the current rules that pressurized air boxes are legal, so we recommended that the language be clarified before the Runoffs. The results of the survey related to air boxes is still under consideration by the committee.
Cory
Everything you just touched on there is in some degree true for me as well. I have had some personal issues come up since buying my F500 in addition to the problems with the car I purchased and have posted it for sale twice in favor of focusing our limited resources into racing at the local circle track, which aside from the roar of the V8. I didn't especially enjoy the format or competition. I have never run an F500 but I am always drawn to them and the idea of road racing in an open wheel car. So as of this last weekend the circle track truck went up for sale to help finance the rebuild of my F500 in order to attend drivers school at Waterford Hills this spring. Hearing that car counts are or have been down really puts a damper on my spirits in regards to the class, but I think I need to just go ahead and jump in with both feet. One very bright note to me, is that this class never seems to become a "wreck fest" like circle track has been every single night out and that goes a long way for the guys with very tight budgets.
Greg
Waterford hills
Greg, you will have a great time racing at WHRRI they get a decent field of F5/6 cars, the track is small but demanding, the facilities are nice , the people are great historically drivers that did well there went on to be fast elsewhere good luck
Dave
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