Formula F - Runoffs 2016

[racerjon1]

With test days starting up and people arriving on site, I suppose it's that time of year right?

What: SCCA Runoffs

Where: Mid Ohio Sports Car Course - Lexington, OH

When:
Qualifying: September 19-22 2:15PM each day.
Race: Sunday September 25, 1:00PM.


SportsCar Magazine called out Hans Saurino, Andy Brumbaugh and John Robinson II as top picks, but that issue went to press before Robinson vanished from the entry list and 15-year-old multiple conference champion Neil Verhagen qualified and entered the event. It may be interesting up front, and I don't think it's fair to mention Brumbaugh and Saurino without also giving a nod to David Livingston Jr who fought a great battle at the Mid Ohio Majors before spinning on the final lap while side-by-side with Brumbaugh.

Speaking of vanishing entrants, at one point there was a "high" of 19 cars but as we head into test days, there are only 15 Formula F's on the entry list. (The lowest of any year I can find.) In another "strange" for the class, there are only two Swift DB-type cars. My DB3/Honda and the DB3-89/Ford of John Benson.

In the previous 15 Runoffs, Swift DB cars have made up at least 1/4th of the field, which is sure to give this year's Runoffs a strange look with so few of the trademark over-sized NACA-ducts on the grid.

I am sure this will turn into a little bit of a "why so few cars" discussion, but I think overall it's important to look at other major changes, such as newer cars having a stranglehold on entry numbers and how the race may look now that the spec tire is well in play.

While we are on stats, of the 15 drivers, there are two former FF National Champions (Rubenzer and Payne) and at least four Runoffs rookies. The oldest driver in the field is 71 years old and the youngest is 15. The average age is 40-years old.


I know at least one FF entrant is already there, and I will be at the track on Sunday. I am looking forward to watching a good discussion here and meeting new people during the week.


- Jon

[Mike Scanlan]

I've got to believe MO will suffer from the Indy next year. I've heard more than a few guys list that as a reason for skipping MO. That's too bad, good luck to everyone.

[John LaRue]

Bill Kephart and I have both withdrawn our entries in FF as Bill had business issues pop up in the last few weeks. We were looking forward to the race and I am sure it will be a good one.

I too think that much emphasis will be put on Indy which will certainly be a high watermark for Runoffs in all classes to the detriment of the events on both sides. That being said, the entry list still appears to be good for Mid-Ohio in the fendered classes. If we don't show up to race there is no reason for the Club to worry about making a place for us.

[racerjon1]

Bill Kephart and I have both withdrawn our entries in FF as Bill had business issues pop up in the last few weeks. We were looking forward to the race and I am sure it will be a good one.

Well dang. You guys are still on the official entry list, and I guess the workload on National staff at this time has stopped them from taking your names off. Sad though, and I look forward to meeting/racing with you guys in the future.

[Robbie.Arthur]

I've got my money on a back to back performance by Rick Payne, especially if it rains.

[mblanc]

I think the wiley old veteran grandpa will wear out the kids by race end, adding to his Championships; definitely podium finish for sure !

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[Steve Bamford]

Neil will win hands down & likely leave the field well behind him. Having raced with him from the start of the year he continues to get better & better each weekend while winning weekend after weekend. I wish everyone best of luck as they will need it to keep up with Neil.

[racerjon1]

Neil will win hands down & likely leave the field well behind him. Having raced with him from the start of the year he continues to get better & better each weekend while winning weekend after weekend. I wish everyone best of luck as they will need it to keep up with Neil.

Yeah.. I asked at the National office, "what has our youngest winner been, because if it's not 15 then you should probably start pre-writing copy." I haven't seen him in the wet, but in the dry I haven't seen anyone within 1.2 seconds a lap of him at an SCCA event.

[andyllc]

Yeah.. I asked at the National office, "what has our youngest winner been, because if it's not 15 then you should probably start pre-writing copy." I haven't seen him in the wet, but in the dry I haven't seen anyone within 1.2 seconds a lap of him at an SCCA event.

I think Rahal won at 15 in FA

[racerjon1]

I think Rahal won at 15 in FA

16. (Born Jan 4, 1989, won the Runoffs September 23, 2005.)

[stonebridge20]

I think Rahal won at 15 in FA

Yea, he was 16 and he didn't just win it, he freaking smoked everybody. Bad!

[BLS]

Kenny Hendrick won the FF nat championship in 1988 at Road Atlanta. I'm pretty sure he was 16 at the time. He was the youngest Nat Champ at the time I believe.

[BURKY]

Before Rahal it was Jonathan Rufener at 17.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...30/144548.html

[Jtovo]

Kyle Krisiloff was 14 when we won in the rain at MO. Hell of a race the kid drove that day.

And he beat Nunes.

Impressive.

[johnd]

I'm with Steve B. I don't care if it's rainy, snowy or clear, I'll be betting on Neil.

[CF56]

I'm picking someone else.

[Wes Allen]

Neil has the momentum, he has been dominate this year. His Team gives him a great car and the Honda has an advantage at this track. Russ knows Mid Ohio well and should make the podium. He should be the top Ford.

[chrisH]

Seven drivers running a 1:31 in today's final test session, which will make it interesting to see how the week pans out. There are certainly quite a few capable drivers left on the entry list.

You can look at the results from the test days on SCCA's website on the Runoffs tab. There is a "Test Day Information" link on the right hand side of the page that'll let you sort thru Thursday-Sunday's results.

Looks to be a great week for the weather, too. Good luck to all!

Chris Horan

[M.Sauce]

I can't ever remember a FF field as small as this one. Low 20's is the smallest I can remember. We introduced longevity to the engines, on a cheaper tire with much greater wear and 13 cars show up. Is it the economy or the economy of FF with the Honda?

[Steve Bamford]

I can't ever remember a FF field as small as this one. Low 20's is the smallest I can remember. We introduced longevity to the engines, on a cheaper tire with much greater wear and 13 cars show up. Is it the economy or the economy of FF with the Honda?

It seems to not only hit FF, look at all other open wheel classes. With the exception of FV I believe there is a huge drop in numbers across the board at the Runoffs this year.

[M.Sauce]

Steve- FC,FA and FM have been small fields for 8-10 years. The FF field has never been this small. It may be the economy but I'll bet all those guys who have DB1's are still trying to make their cars work on radials or figure without a Honda no reason to show up. I don't know what it is but it is sad. I am at home because of the economics of the Honda. Radials I think are good unless you have non pushrod car. Mid Ohio is a great racetrack so I don't think that is it. SCCA formula classes have some serious work to do to get people to the race track. FV is the only healthy open wheel class at the Runoffs.

[Steve Bamford]

Steve- FC,FA and FM have been small fields for 8-10 years. The FF field has never been this small. It may be the economy but I'll bet all those guys who have DB1's are still trying to make their cars work on radials or figure without a Honda no reason to show up. I don't know what it is but it is sad. I am at home because of the economics of the Honda. Radials I think are good unless you have non pushrod car. Mid Ohio is a great racetrack so I don't think that is it. SCCA formula classes have some serious work to do to get people to the race track. FV is the only healthy open wheel class at the Runoffs.

Respectfully I think it is much more then what you point out. Yes FC/FM & FA fields were smaller but not near as small as they are this year. I think by % they are down this year more then FF is or very close to similar numbers.

We can say the Honda is keeping cars home but if we say that then where are all the Honda cars???? There are a heck of a lot more Honda cars converted that simply aren't at the Runoffs either.

I will agree it is sad but to be honest I have seen this all year in all classes of open wheel racing, it's not a FF issue but that is simply only my opinion.

[Bob Wright]

I just looked at the qualifying grids:

Verhangan- Honda
Melvin- Honda
Brumbaugh- Ford
Livingston- Honda
Reudiseul- Ford
Bensen- Ford

Not sure its about Honda pre se. When you look at trap speeds the Fords seem to have top mph.

Verhagan has been kicking a** all year in the F1600 series and leads the points going into the final race weekend (four different drivers can clinch at VIR).

To respond to the participation numbers comment, other than FV, its an issue across the board. BTW, FF was almost dead a few years ago. The cars are out there, they simply aren't being raced.

[Raceworks]

For my part, I have no desire to spend a week in Ohio otherwise I'd be there like I was at Daytona, and I'm running one of those dreaded Hondas in a chassis that was made after 1996.

I'll be at Indy next year.


In general, numbers are down across the board, even in the pro series. I think it's just the economy. I had pretty much zero customer interest this year but it's picking up late this year and into next. Go figure.

[jim morgan]

#1.As I posted on another issue most of us that have the time for Runoffs are retired or own our own business. Things aren't as good as govt. stats would have you believe.

#2 Indy, Would love to run Mid-Ohio which is probably a better track than Indy but who among us in the older demographic wants to spend $ this year in lieu of next year?

[marshall9]

Interesting ...

1.Reading all of the Qual sheets, I can't find a single racer from AZ Region in any class.

2. Combining SRF and SRF3, there are 67 entries.

3. It seems other than Vee, open wheel is dying fast in SCCA, sad.

4. Pro Auto Sports has more average entries at every single event in FF than the Runoffs.

5. For a guy that has been out of FF/CF for almost a year and considering getting back in, they're are a lot of choices. SCCA is the least appealing because of the participation numbers.

[CF56]

OK, don't come to the Runoffs. We used to race FF with Pro Auto Sports in AZ, which was good, and we are having fun this week at the Runoffs.

[Bob Wright]

Ya see...this is the kind of thinking that makes me as a series owner crazy...

5. For a guy that has been out of FF/CF for almost a year and considering getting back in, they're are a lot of choices. SCCA is the least appealing because of the participation numbers.

I get some form of this statement more often than you think: "I'll sit back and see if the numbers get better before I join in".

Well, if you don't participate, the numbers won't get better!!! Its a vicious circle that needs to get broken. If you have a car sitting in the garage, race it or sell it to someone who will race it. It does no good not being used, and probably is degrading by sitting there.

[Raceworks]

Interesting ...

1.Reading all of the Qual sheets, I can't find a single racer from AZ Region in any class.

2. Combining SRF and SRF3, there are 67 entries.

3. It seems other than Vee, open wheel is dying fast in SCCA, sad.

4. Pro Auto Sports has more average entries at every single event in FF than the Runoffs.

5. For a guy that has been out of FF/CF for almost a year and considering getting back in, they're are a lot of choices. SCCA is the least appealing because of the participation numbers.

Me I'm good as long as I have to work to get to the podium, which in FF can be as few as 4 cars depending on who shows up.

[andyllc]

Here's the deal so far at the Runoffs. Neil is hooked up. Good driver, good car, good set up, good team, good execution. Period. When you check all of those boxes then those are the results you get.
Yes the numbers are pathetic. Kudos to Cliff Johnson for joining mid week and adding another car to the field. If you look at the grid though the majority of the field is really close. You have Mygales, Spectrums, Swifts, Van Diemens, Piper, etc all in the mix. You have Honda's and Ford's. New cars and old cars.
For those that want to complain about the Runoffs being too long, I agree. They could just delete Mon/Tues, prohibit any testing the week before via the track or SCCA and things would be just fine and not much different.
For those that are upset with the costs, I get it. I am flat broke after this season.
HOWEVER, if you are not coming out because your car isn't fast enough, isn't new enough, doesn't have a Honda, then stop it. There are plenty of different cars and engines all running competitively. It is how hard you work, how good you can drive the car, total package preparation.
We will see how the race pans out and anything can happen, we have all seen crazy stuff happen and I am anxious and ready. I can't wait for Sunday and hope everyone has a safe race where we can race hard and have fun and make others wish they were in Ohio in September in (relatively for the locale and month) blazing hot weather.

[marshall9]

OK, don't come to the Runoffs. We used to race FF with Pro Auto Sports in AZ, which was good, and we are having fun this week at the Runoffs.

I was making an observation. I am glad you are having fun. Enjoy ! I don't recognize you from your handle on here. But there are a lot of backmarkers that I can't recall that have raced with us....

[andyllc]

I was making an observation. I am glad you are having fun. Enjoy ! I don't recognize you from your handle on here. But there are a lot of backmarkers that I can't recall that have raced with us....

We raced out there in the original days in 99

[marshall9]

We raced out there in the original days in 99

Ah, ok. My first year was 2000. 2001 FC Champion, but it was NASA back then before the split.

[Lotus7]

...if you are not coming out because your car isn't fast enough, isn't new enough, doesn't have a Honda, then stop it. There are plenty of different cars and engines all running competitively. It is how hard you work, how good you can drive the car, total package preparation...

+1

I've been crewing in open wheel racing for over 30 years, and one thing that was true before I started and is still true today: at any given race, regardless of the entry size, there is only ever one winner, and a whole bunch of losers.
Look at runoffs spec Miata: there are going to be 44 losers this weekend, but whadda ya know, 45 guys STILL showed up. OK, maybe a greater percentage of them is in with a shot of winning than in FF or FC or FA, but certainly not all of them.
I always thought the whole point of racing was competition AND having fun, regardless of where you finished, and as time goes by, maybe you do a little better each week, maybe you don't, but surely that doesn't mean it was a waste?

[Mike Scanlan]

Ditto Ian. I've watched Neil progress by leaps and bounds this season in the F1600 series and I run in the series with a dozen drivers like him at each event. I look forward to the challenge every time and I suspect that every FF entrant this week feels the same way. I'd rather hone my skills and get beat by Runoff quality fields in the series than not try to improve. The Runoffs offer that same challenge year in and year out. This might not be the largest FF field but it certainly is a quality field. I suspect it'll be a heck of a race on Sunday. Racing is a huge drain on the wallet and the lives of all involved. The FF class is just fine. The right pieces are in place. Field sizes will fluctuate but the level of competition remains high. It's built and the cars will come out.

[marshall9]

Ya see...this is the kind of thinking that makes me as a series owner crazy...

5. For a guy that has been out of FF/CF for almost a year and considering getting back in, they're are a lot of choices. SCCA is the least appealing because of the participation numbers.

I get some form of this statement more often than you think: "I'll sit back and see if the numbers get better before I join in".

Well, if you don't participate, the numbers won't get better!!! Its a vicious circle that needs to get broken. If you have a car sitting in the garage, race it or sell it to someone who will race it. It does no good not being used, and probably is degrading by sitting there.

I understand

[marshall9]

I was making an observation. I am glad you are having fun. Enjoy ! I don't recognize you from your handle on here. But there are a lot of backmarkers that I can't recall that have raced with us....

Apologies, Kevin, that was a joke, I know who you guys are. Good luck this weekend.

[JLuxon]

Any word on why Bartz only did Q1 and missed Q2-Q4?

Bill and John Luxon

[Jon Jeffords]

Any word on why Bartz only did Q1 and missed Q2-Q4?

I'm hoping its just a simple matter of him minimizing his time away from the classrooms in Milwaukee, and that he'll be returning for the race. But I don't know for sure.

[andyllc]

I'm hoping its just a simple matter of him minimizing his time away from the classrooms in Milwaukee, and that he'll be returning for the race. But I don't know for sure.

This is my guess. His car is still here.