Zetec Blueprinting
From the September 2016 GCR page 317
"The philosophy of the Zetec engine in FC is to allow limited engine rebuilds but no performance modifications to the engine. Blue printing, balancing, head porting, polishing, etc. are strictly prohibited and against the spirit of the Zetec formula."
Originally Posted by John Bach
Funny stuff....
Nwfc
B.S.
Yeah I'm sure the teams use all 5. I would think it would be fairly easy to restrict it to 4 though? does anyone have insight on this?
Formula Enterprises GCR Pg 389:
Only the following gear ratios are permitted:
1st gear combination 12:29 Ratio number 2.41
2nd gear combination 15:28 1.86
3rd gear combination 16:24 1.50
4th gear combination 18:22 1.22 or 20:25 1.25
for 2011beginning 2012, only 20:25 1.255th gear
combination 24:26 1.08
Peter Olivola
(polivola@gmail.com)
You have a GCR reference for that?
Peter Olivola
(polivola@gmail.com)
So Zac what's up? Have you found a deal on a MZR north of the border?
"Tires:
1 new set per race weekend. Test days are exempt. I feel most of us do this anyways. And as most of you know I'm a big fan of Avons."
Zac:
As an FYI: Roger and I run only 1 new set of tires for the entire season (doesn't matter if its 4 weekends or 5). Practice and maybe 1 or 2 races a weekend on "last years tires", and qualifying and a race or two on the newer ones. Budget doesn't allow for a $1200 (extra) hit every race weekend.
Now if I sold my other/Roger's car, then I would have money to have a new set every event. Hmmmm? Might have to think about that
I ran two new sets for nine races this year.
Three sets for 10 races last year.
I figure 8-12 heat cycles per set.
I ran no new tires. I only could make the spokane and seattle races this year, but I ran with 2 sets of newer(ish) take offs..Used the "newer" used set for qualifying and races and the "older" used set for practice
Final drive is 12:33 so a bit taller than most FC...
Do you know the ratios on the USF box?
FYI Reny won every pinto race he entered.
Yea on my best days I get to watch him slowly drive away
No, but you might try contacting them for the information. I don't think their rule book is online.
Peter Olivola
(polivola@gmail.com)
Nope, just trying to keep the options open. However i know there is more then enough zetecs to choose from at the moment!
Brain:
One set all year?! The setup on my VD must have been way too aggressive because i couldn't even get the spokane weekend out of one set. 6-8 heat cycles were about it for me. Good thing is theres enough VD's to scavenge some info off of! Anyone with a VD running Avons care to comment?
Now when we say a race weekend, are we including all sessions? just Q and race? just race?
So maybe as greg said 1 set per two double race weekends? What about the triples? If you did 1 new set for Spokane and Mission (the triple headers) each and one set for the doubles, so 3 sets for the year? Thoughts?
So... I drove one of the USF MZR cars with the oval map and restrictor at NJMP a couple of weeks ago. While I suppose I could have used 5th gear, I never had to. Performance of the car was actually just a touch below the Zetecs as the MZR has a 20 lb flywheel and the zetec a 8 lb.- you can feel it coming off the corners. Also, 1st gear was not quite right for that track and you could see the results in the data and video. Otherwise its a Van Diemen.
Gear ratios are fixed at:
1st: 15-292nd-5th: 17-27, 18-25, 19-23, 24-26, ]Option:
20-26 (for oval Events only)
----------
In memory of Joe Stimola and Glenn Phillips
More like 1.5 - 2 sets per year.
I find I can really stretch tire life by not finishing half the races I enter.
For 2015 I bought 2 new sets of Avons for the start of the the season and then 2 fronts midway through as replacements.
For 2016 I bought 1.5 sets as I had to replace the left side tires from the Castrol accident set
I think 3 sets for a 4 race weekend season would be a good number to start with or 4 for a 5 weekend season.
13:36 on the mazda like the zetec?
I have listened to this engine argument for years.
I ran the same ZTech 4.5 seasons won 2 championships and lot's of test days. You can't do that with a Pinto engine period.It's not just the engine that makes the car.It is a lot of hard work and determination.I would like to hear some positive solutions of how we get cars to the track.
We can all argue about the same things and let it all go away.
Or we can get our cars ready to go race next season.
There will always be the people at the front and people at the back,but we can all still have fun.
I am putting my car back together and plan on attending races next season.
Who want's to join me.
See You at the track
Tim MinorFc88
Tim Minor
Tim, for the most part NWFC has it figured out. They run Zetecs and Pintos and balance them.I have listened to this engine argument for years.
....
Who want's to join me.
See You at the track
Tim MinorFc88
Most of this discussion is about adding yet other cars (FE and USF) to their mix.
They certainly want to race and do!
I believe the ring/pinion is a 12/33
----------
In memory of Joe Stimola and Glenn Phillips
what he said !!! well said Tim !!I have listened to this engine argument for years.
I ran the same ZTech 4.5 seasons won 2 championships and lot's of test days. You can't do that with a Pinto engine period.It's not just the engine that makes the car.It is a lot of hard work and determination.I would like to hear some positive solutions of how we get cars to the track.
We can all argue about the same things and let it all go away.
Or we can get our cars ready to go race next season.
There will always be the people at the front and people at the back,but we can all still have fun.
I am putting my car back together and plan on attending races next season.
Who want's to join me.
See You at the track
Tim MinorFc88
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Appears the has gotten a bit off track. But if anyone missed it here is a bit of history. From a jaundice eye.
2011 ICSCC had 28 FC's (6 drivers) enter over a 14 race (11 weekend) season. The largest population of entries in the northwest.
2016 NWFC had 110 FC's (23 drivers) enter over a 10 race (4 weekend) season. Plus significant trickle down entries in our 3 sanctioning bodies (29 in ICSCC exclusive of NWFC races, to lazy to count the others).
There is no engine debate in NWFC Z's and P's are scored separate and whomever beats the most cars in class or above over the season wins.
@&$!? Yea
..............drops mic.......leaves stage
gcoffin put the mic back on the stand its too quiet around here
Last edited by 03 db; 10.09.16 at 11:31 AM.
Then put forth some ideas Dane!gcoffin put the mic back on the stand its too quiet around here
Roger and Greg. I like what you guys are doing, I think tire controls are the next reasonable issue to deal with in what ever form that turn's out to be.
My post was more about Greg pointing out how well the series is running then dropping the mic and walking off stage... Too funny
I agree with Zac. My car also goes through tires. I used a new set at Spokane and they did not make it through the weekend despite not finishing a couple of sessions!
I may try Avons or something else next year to try to find some improvement in wear.
Russ
RF95
What tire are you running? You might want to check out the Pirelli's used by PacificF2000. They restrict to 1 set per double weekend.
Many people used them for more that 1 weekend. Very durable.
I am not saying there is a lot of good video out there with a certain #99 Red Van Diemen having smoke trailing off it's tires while entering corners but that might have some type of correlation with your tire wear issue.
Unless a tire manufacturer is going to kick in and provide something actually beneficial to the drivers/series I wouldn't try and mandate 1 tire manufacturer.
Simply just mandate 1 set of Tires ( any compound or manufacturer ) marked by an admin prior to qualify session and must be used for all qualify & race sessions for the Entire weekend. With a provision of course if a tire is cut or damaged an agreed upon equivalent mileage tire and a series admin would need to sign off on a replacement tire be allowed and remarked.
This effectively allows teams to develop and continue using the tire of their choice that they are happy / comfortable with in regards to their setup - we all have to remember many amateur teams/drivers cannot easily reset their entire car for a new single mandated tire (shocks dampening, springs, ride, camber, toe, etc)
This essentially removes super soft tires from the equation as they simply wouldn't last and entire weekend of cycles. And also gives any competitor that had been using more than 1 set per weekend or a cycle of sets for race and qualify only the ability to adjust to a new strategy.
For a triple header weekend like Spokane with possible bonus races that would really make teams strategize the compound choice that can take them to the end of the entire weekend.
I only suggested Pirelli because of their life, not as a spec (like Pacific does)....
I would pick them.... Once my stash of Hoosiers are done I'll stay with the Pirellis whether running w/ Pacific or not.
Maybe like one new set per weekend, marked by Greg or Roger before quali 1 of said weekend, allow any set from a previous weekend at any time during quali or race . this accounts for replacement tire issues as well as allows those who have some life left to not burn a set on the first day of the next weekend when they still have good meat as most currently do.
You're exactly right about the setup. I don't know that it has been said before, but that is probably one of the biggest complaints I have heard about a spec tire in person.
agreed!
good thought on previous series marked race/qualify weekend tires are only options for alternate for replacement if required from a damage tire etc.
This forces teams to not come up with ingenious reasons to require a new tire to be mounted on the loaded dominant side..
Do they have to be from the same car or entrant? (Can I use someone else's tires?) What about a set that only has one or two laps from a prior weekend because the driver pulled out of the race early? Wouldn't that give an unfair advantage? Bob's series has about the best rule you can come up with - you get 6 tires over the course of the event (official sessions) new, used, whatever. If you guys aren't running as many laps/sessions then cut it back to 4 and have an allowance for a replacement for damaged tires.Maybe like one new set per weekend, marked by Greg or Roger before quali 1 of said weekend, allow any set from a previous weekend at any time during quali or race . this accounts for replacement tire issues as well as allows those who have some life left to not burn a set on the first day of the next weekend when they still have good meat as most currently do.
Hate to say it but there is no perfect rule set - even if we require everyone to run the same equipment there is no regulation of budgets. Someone will out spend, out engineer, out test, out work the next guy - that is simply the environment of competition. At best we can arrive at a reasonable set of rules and play to those knowing that there are limitations to what can be legislated.
I always come back to karting when I look at rules - years ago Yamaha introduced the KT100 engine which was and remains the best engine karting has ever witnessed. I believe complete with clutch and pipe it came in around $350 in the day. The pipe and clutch were discarded as they did not work very well. Despite this however the engines had to remain bone stock. You could hone them to fit oversized pistons and machine the head to get proper compression, but that was pretty much all. Thereafter it became apparent that there were some engines that simply were better. This was due to the fact that there was some core shift in the castings and the port timing was a bit more efficient. While everyone could buy the engine for a reasonable amount of money they were not all the same - it seemed to be a lottery of sorts, but it wasn't. The ugly truth was that the big shops who sold hundreds of these engines could hand pick the best cylinders. Nothing wrong with that, but it gave the guys with big budgets an advantage that could not be overcome by the average racer. To combat that they set spec port dimensions and allowed the engines to be blueprinted to the new spec. This ran up the cost of an engine considerably, but the engines now were pretty much equal.
A tire rule pretty much will commit everyone to buying a set of tires each weekend rather than rummaging through take offs finding something that will work for one or two sessions. Running without one will allow the guy who has an unlimited budget to roll out on stickers each session. Pick your poison.
tires/tyres
what I would like is a set of tires /tyres that cost 650 usd/850 cdn peso.The top guy at our little track threw a set of ar on his car with no set up and ran 1 sec of record time for class .Keray
Pirellis
After running Avon's for the past couple years I've switched to Pirelli's, Its been a good switch. We have been finding the drop off is minimal if at all. If my memory is correct the track record for FC at buttonwillow was set with a pair that had six heat cycles on them?? I find that we can easily get a full race weekend out of one set and still have enough rubber for a good practice set . My tire program for the year has been to buy a new set for two race weekends and then pick the best out the two sets and run them for the third race weekend. When I was running Avon's we would try and qualify with no more than three laps so we could have enough tire to make it through the weekend. even that got pretty sketchy at times. I have to give the Pirellis two thumbs up.
how much do they cost?
The Pirelli is a radial is it not? Cost was similar to Avon/Hoosier if i remember correctly.
Pirellis
Yes, the Pirelli is a radial so it does require a little tweaking. its also much heavier than the bias ply Avons. I have to double check the pricing but I think it was within a few dollars of what I was spending for Avons.
Pirellis
Kind of a fun fact. The price of Pirellis came down after it was chosen as the F4 tire. when was the last time that happened in racing???
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