F4 On Track?

[SStadel]

According to the schedule, F4 cars could have tested last night at Mid-Ohio and had 2 practices today. I'm surprised no one has posted anything about them. The website is silent as well. So, did they go out? What were the times?

[reidhazelton]

RaceMonitor says the best time was 1:29.926 by James Goughary. 13 cars listed.

[SStadel]

Found it. Didn't realize it wasn't with the all formula Mid Ohio Race Monitor feed. It had its own.

[Brian Graham]

Link. Please.

[SStadel]

https://www.race-monitor.com/Results/Session/5777814

Didn't realize it was online until you asked. I always get it on my phone.

[Pi_guy]

A car built by accountant rules.
The back shells on connectors in the wiring harness are not present because it would drive the price of the car up

[holmberg]

Fastest posted so far was 1:29.115.

I'm not familiar with Mid-Ohio, but looking at some recent SCCA results here, I see:

F5 Steven Thompson TR1 1:30.895
FF Andy Brumbaugh RF-98 1:32.638
FC Joshua Saurino Van Diemen 1:24.309 * New track record

So an F4 is about 2 seconds a lap faster than a F5, 3 seconds faster than a FF, and nearly 5 seconds slower than an FC?

Wow. What's the problem? Are they just too heavy? 'Cause they've got 158 HP, right?

I don't get it.

[S Lathrop]

Same track, same day times for pro F1600 1:30.658 and F2000 1:25.768.

[SStadel]

So a bit faster than a Ford (sorry, habit) and a bunch slower than an F2000.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[Robert Finlayson]

Haters need to stop. Very limited time in the cars for everyone. Very limited testing as well. First time at mid Ohio for most of the drivers. I am sure times will drop as drivers and engineers get more time in car. We're any of you running track record pace the first time you got in a new car

[SStadel]

In my case I hadn't seen the other comparisons and I really don't care about the performance difference, was just making a statement about F1600 times and F2000 times compared to the times posted.

[gcoffin]

I think folks are just curious, not hating.....and it was my second time out in a new car that I set a lap record. No doubt the F4 cars will get quicker.

[Steve Bamford]

The cars are big cars with a standard wing package & overall a heavy car. About 250 lbs heavier then F1600 & 150 lbs more then F2000. The car should not be at F2000 speeds.

I drove all three cars yesterday, 1600, 2000 & F4. I was on 10 or so heat cycle tires on the F4 & on 4-6 session old tires on the other two. F4 felt the best on the track.

Track was slower yesterday by multiple seconds in all classes compared to other times we have been here.

FYI, the F4 was a track record yesterday for Mid Ohio

[Swift17]

[as to and effect on top speed and times] -- my $ .02/guess (Hey Steve B pipe in) is not the car heavier and substantially wider, larger due to compliance with current F.I.A. mandated front, side impact protection standards with larger head protection/bolster and de-compression areas ?

.... after development it is of course inevitable that lap times with be reduced

[SStadel]

They're over 2 seconds faster right now

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[Parker]

Any photos or video other that what's on the F4 Championship website?

Guess the series may be more restrictive about this stuff than I'm used to.

Wish this was televised!

[stonebridge20]

My

Racing isn't about lap times. Racing is about competition. If the competition is good, the racing is good.

[a. pettipas]

My

Racing isn't about lap times. Racing is about competition. If the competition is good, the racing is good.

SM and SRF quickly summarized.

[Pi_guy]

Any photos or video other that what's on the F4 Championship website?

Guess the series may be more restrictive about this stuff than I'm used to.

Wish this was televised!

No there were many pictures taken. The ones I took would get me labeled a hater they will stay on my phone.

It is the racing of the future.

[holmberg]

OK, so I see the fastest F4 time now is 1:27.169.

FF 1:31.505
F1600 1:29.512
F2000 1:24.049

So F4 is about half-way between F1600 and F2000.

If it weighs 150 lbs more than F2000, than that explains it.

These look like high-quality, reliable, safe, reasonably fast cars. I'm hopeful I'll be able to pick up a used one in a few years for a good price.

Unless Steve Lathrop, Jay Novak, and/or Dustin Wright come up with a good Formula Super 600 car in the mean time. But I haven't heard much on that front in several months, so I'm not sure what's happening there...

[Pi_guy]

These look like high-quality, reliable, safe, reasonably fast cars. I'm hopeful I'll be able to pick up a used one in a few years for a good price.

.

Do not bet your farm on that.
Can not develop.
Motor is leased and controlled no testing
Use of car is only at sanctioned F4 events.

The cost benefit goes to the team owner who leases or rents the seat to a driver who wants FIA points.

[RobLav]

Looks like another spec series to me rather than a "formula".

[Pi_guy]

Track was slower yesterday by multiple seconds in all classes compared to other times we have been here.

FYI, the F4 was a track record yesterday for Mid Ohio

Are you able to overlay any car data from the GEM system and AIM?

[Steve Bamford]

Are you able to overlay any car data from the GEM system and AIM?

I didn't download any myself this weekend, the team did but we didn't try to overlay any data. I personally are not skilled enough to do so but my guys likely are.

With that said obviously it is a completely different car then the 2000 or 1600. Huge difference with the tires as well.

Car is fun to drive if that counts for anything

[Pi_guy]

I didn't download any myself this weekend, the team did but we didn't try to overlay any data. I personally are not skilled enough to do so but my guys likely are.

With that said obviously it is a completely different car then the 2000 or 1600. Huge difference with the tires as well.

Car is fun to drive if that counts for anything

Completely understand the car differences but there is one item the same in all three. Data is one of those things that you only learn stuff from if you look at it.


I am sure the car is fun to drive. And you seem to be having fun with your driving up at the pointy end of the field.

[problemchild]

Are you able to overlay any car data from the GEM system and AIM?

Why would you want to? All the cars have the GEM system.

[Pi_guy]

Why would you want to? All the cars have the GEM system.

Being a database person I am curious it is all zeros and ones in basic form. But how would you know what you might possible learn? You guys are at the front so finding big changes are not likely but who knows.
Part of my reason for mentioning GEM is how many people on this side of the pond have any exposure to it? I had talk to the company about tech support @ PRI on this side but never went anywhere.

Other question do you have access to shifter software and tuning it? Some of the throttle blips I heard were a bit much do not know which cars but it is an area you want to be on top of. Along with draining the water from the system after every session.

[Steve Bamford]

Being a database person I am curious it is all zeros and ones in basic form. But how would you know what you might possible learn? You guys are at the front so finding big changes are not likely but who knows.
Part of my reason for mentioning GEM is how many people on this side of the pond have any exposure to it? I had talk to the company about tech support @ PRI on this side but never went anywhere.

Other question do you have access to shifter software and tuning it? Some of the throttle blips I heard were a bit much do not know which cars but it is an area you want to be on top of. Along with draining the water from the system after every session.

The Gems system is new to us & we had a few issues getting it set up as some changes needed to be made to allow us to access it. I am not sure if we have access to the shifter info. It would have been easier for me if they used AIM but that was not my choice to make.

It was our first outing in the car other then a few sessions as a shake down a few weeks before, which a few of the other teams were in the same situation. You have listed all good point hopefully in the future we can learn a little more.

[problemchild]

Attachment 62245
Although it is a spec Series, there is still room for creativity. The cars have minimal storage capacity, so when this driver stole the front wing from another car, the officials made him stop and leave in the pits.
Photo courtesy of AJK Motorsport.

Wing tethers?

[Pi_guy]

The Gems system is new to us & we had a few issues getting it set up as some changes needed to be made to allow us to access it. I am not sure if we have access to the shifter info. It would have been easier for me if they used AIM but that was not my choice to make.

It was our first outing in the car other then a few sessions as a shake down a few weeks before, which a few of the other teams were in the same situation. You have listed all good point hopefully in the future we can learn a little more.

I would like to get in front of a GEM software screen, unlike AIM and like MOTEC and Pi/Cosworth they have two versions standard and Pro and a 500$ price diff.
Also curious about software and features.

[Beartrax]

Attachment 62245
Although it is a spec Series, there is still room for creativity. The cars have minimal storage capacity, so when this driver stole the front wing from another car, the officials made him stop and leave in the pits.
Photo courtesy of AJK Motorsport.

Wing tethers?

I would guess that there is an interesting story behind that photo...

[aims20]

Being a database person I am curious it is all zeros and ones in basic form. But how would you know what you might possible learn? You guys are at the front so finding big changes are not likely but who knows.

Pi_guy: I'm Steve's Data guy, and there's only so much I can tell you here, but I will answer the general questions: First off, We were running F1600, F2000, and F4 this weekend. I was swamped, so I didn't get to do the more relaxed look at performances. I made sure the cars weren't about to blow up before we went out but that was about it. Now that I'm back home and occasionally need to wait on welds to cool on some of my other projects, I will be doing exactly what you mentioned above. What further complicated things was that the on-site Data Analysis guy at the track was still sending out software files so that people's laptops could actually connect to the logger.

Part of my reason for mentioning GEM is how many people on this side of the pond have any exposure to it? I had talk to the company about tech support @ PRI on this side but never went anywhere.

I don't know if you know of the Race Technology Data Analysis programs but one of my ITS buddies has their data logger so I have their Data Analysis program and it is very similar; It's "project based" so you pick and choose your displays. Race Studio can do the same thing but it's not graphically focused in that manner. I have not yet played with Race Studio 3 and I believe that is setup in a similar fashion. I have heard that the Rally guys are using GEMS in the US.

Other question do you have access to shifter software and tuning it? Some of the throttle blips I heard were a bit much do not know which cars but it is an area you want to be on top of. Along with draining the water from the system after every session.

The short answer is no because that is stored on the ECU (No Touchy allowed). We did have some issues that we talked to them (GEMS/Crawford) about (as did many if not all other teams) that allowed us to understand some of the functionality. What I can tell you there is that any good FSAE team with a pneumatic shifting system controlled through an ECU probably has the same algorithms, probably for the same reason as the lack of backshells on all of the wiring.

[AGMelv]

I didn't get to watch much of the F4 series on track but did manage to take a minute and watch one of the standing starts. Here's a quick video I got on my phone: https://youtu.be/EnDe5cA2IKU

[RSS]

I would guess that there is an interesting story behind that photo...

Well Crawford was still short a couple chassis so they had asked a number of teams if they could try and convince some of the cars to possibly breed over the race weekend in hopes of having enough cars for everyone by the next race weekend.

What you see in the picture is one of these attempts gone wrong as the female can be seen carrying the male cars genitalia around with her on what looks like a victory lap after emasculating the male car.

The male car afterwards was said to be very squirrely and skittish mostly wandering aimlessly off the track around high speed corners. No word yet on whether they could re-attach his lost piece or if they had to go with a new prosthetic.

[Wren]

My

Racing isn't about lap times. Racing is about competition. If the competition is good, the racing is good.

There is likely some minimum speed that these cars would need to achieve to make this true, i.e. faster than a FV, but they are clearly way in front of that. They are definitely faster than I thought they would be.

Do not bet your farm on that.
Can not develop.
Motor is leased and controlled no testing
Use of car is only at sanctioned F4 events.

Have you confirmed that? I already thought the cars might be subsidized by someone, that would certainly make me think that even more.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[problemchild]

Motor is leased and controlled no testing
Use of car is only at sanctioned F4 events.

I had not heard this one

[problemchild]

Along with draining the water from the system after every session.

I had not heard this one either.

[Wren]

I had not heard this one either.

I think this reference is to draining the water from any sort of air accumulator tank. That wasn't something we worried about too much back in the FB days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk