Catch bottles
Just read the Solo section of the Fastback. I have seen this before under letter #15817 they mention radiator and crankcase vents terminating in min 1 qt containers. Well my car only has an oil tank vent, so maybe that doesn't count as it terminates into about a 2 cup container which has never overflowed. The water fill spout has a pressure activated overflow which terminates into another 2+cup container. Do any of you have 1 qt containers? Are they really required?
Mark
1990 Van Diemen, the Racing Machine, CM AutoX, 2016 Frontier
You can try to make a street car into an autocrosser or you can do a lot less work and make a race car into a great autocrosser
If it's in the rules, it's required. The question you may be asking is "Is it enforced?". The answer to that is "maybe". Is it worth having it be an issue when it is very inconvenient to correct. I have one car that simply has two old 1 qt. oil bottles, another has fancy (I think they came from Jaz) 1 qt, bottles with drains on them.
It would seem to be easier to just be sure that's what you have and then don't worry about it.
Craig Butt
While the issue does not pertain to me directly as I do not autocross, I am none-the-less curious.
Comparing this requirement to the GCR for road racing is interesting. In the GCR, there are two sections that deal separately with the engine oil breather and the coolant overflow. In the engine breather section, it requires a single container with a minimum of 1 quart capacity (9.3.38 of the GCR for those playing along at home)(it actually requires 1 quart for both the engine oil and any transmission/transaxle breather combined). In the coolant overflow section, a single container with a minimum capacity of 1 pint is required (If the internet and my memory have not failed me, 1 pint is 0.5 quarts) (9.3.15 of the GCR). Also interesting is that I see no language that would indicate that these catch tanks need to be separate vessels. That is, a single catch can of 1.5 quarts could be used for both purposes.
In contrast, the language you have referred to for autocross requires additional capacity for the coolant and it appears to indicate separate vessels by use of the plural when referring to the container.
So why does autocross need to have more capacity for overflow than road racing and why would they need to be separate vessels (assuming I have a way to deal with such waste disposal appropriately)?
Eric Little
Yep, I have run into it and changed
I had spent a couple of hours turning an old MGB windshield washer reservoir into a cool, rectangular catch bottle, only to get informed I needed two, separate, 1 qt catch bottles. Pegasus sells a nice one, so I bought two, adapted the rectangular holder, and now I know I won't get gigged on that, which is one less thing to worry about.
David
when i converted my swift from a autoX car to a road course car. it had 2 1-quart bottles, one for water, one for oil (and no comment that the fuel overflow was plumbed into the catch can!?)
so it seems to be standard practice - although my car now only has one, for oil and water.
BT29-24 Swift DB1 Matra M530
That is a recommended rule change that would be effective 2017. If you have comments, you should contact the SEB. Easy to do.
Jim
I wish I understood everything I know.
My (Jim G's previous) Citation has two 1 quart oil bottles zip-tied in place with hoses stuck through drilled holes. Light and meets the letter of the rules.
Yep, I have two 1 quart bottles.
(But I don't care if you come to nats with "non-compliant" catch cans, but you should come back!)
You do realize with a single bottle for oil and water there's a possibility that you can suck oil into the cooling system when you get the reverse pressure going during cool down!! Not a good thing.Originally Posted by fitfan
CREW for Jeff 89 Reynard or Flag & Comm.
Yes, but only in true overflow/resevoir systems. If it is only catch can (tube not submerged) it will never pick up fluid unless it is filled.
To make my car GCR compliant this winter I made exact 1qt oil and 1pint water separate catch cans.
id have to spit a lot of oil.... and I've never seen anything, oil or water, in the water overflow hose. but good point to double check its not become extended into it - also have a plan to put a water catch can inside the body work... next year!
BT29-24 Swift DB1 Matra M530
That's the key. Drill holes in the cap that are exactly the same diameter as the hoses. Run the hoses just through the cap and put zip ties around them underneath the cap to keep them from coming out. They will not pick up fluid unless the bottle is completely full.
Catch Tank
Sure it is not SCCA compliant. But sure works well and looks kewl.
Very much enjoyed "preparing" it as well.
AS
If you can find a quart can of 'Duff' beer, I think Tech would accept.
“Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty.” -Peter Egan
Mark,
I use two one quart bike drink bottles and used cheap bike bottle cages to mount them. Of course, since this is California, something of craft beer origin would be best.
Dan
“Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty.” -Peter Egan
Catch Bottle and Fluid Recovery
The water radiator overflow catch bottle is also the fluid recovery reservoir and the over flow from that exits to the rear of the car. If the fluid recovery ever fills up, it blew up! The bottle is an early Volvo unit and it is normally about 1/3 full of water.
In the bottom picture the oil catch bottle is a 1 qt re-purposed water bottle. The hose going into it is usually connected to an oil air separator which I was trying run without, it worked kind'a there was about a cup of oil in the bottle, the separator is going back on.
David
Hmm, I have one. My crank case breather goes into my >1qt dry sump tank. Does dry sump tank need catch bottle instead of breather?
I have my crank case breather going into my oil tank and the tank breather going into the 1 qt bottle. Water to a separate 1 qt bottle.
Graham
One bottle for oil sump overflow and one for Coolant overflow (and the trans breather goes into the oil overflow too)
Two bottles from Pegasus
I originally had one rectangular reservoir in this rack and then found out about the new rule. I cut off one end of the rack and put a spring on it to hold these bottles in. They're from Pegasus, heat resistant (to a point), 1 qt bottles with closed tops so that you can drill whatever size hole you want. I added the black racer tape to better hold them in the rack and prevent wear of the plastic bottle.
David
Last edited by DK540; 12.04.16 at 8:20 PM.
The first time I took the SoloVee to Nationals it had a 20 ounce bottle for overflow. It failed tech. I had to go trash can diving to find a quart bottle. What a joke.Everyone know that oil from SoloVees goes onto the course, not into overflow bottles.
My Ford has 2, 1 quart Tupperware bottles in a nice little aluminum cage next to the Hewland trans to hold them.
My old VW Scirocco has 1 quart plastic oil bottle with the crankcase vent hose stuck in the top and a couple of cuts for vent holes way up top. At a national tech inspection many years ago the guy stopped.... stared at the oil bottle.... " yup, that looks like its a quart." Tech sticker gets slapped on the windshield.
Which reminds me. I need to decide if I want to head to nationals in Lincoln this year. The shifter kart doesn't hold much more than a quart of anything. LOL
Bump.
As I try and get my car into compliance, I had a few additional questions. Here's what I see in the rules:
Let's talk cooling first. The GCR says one pint for overflow, and then the Solo rules increase that to a quart. Both rule books use the word "tanks" and "containers", which implies a separate container for oil overflow and a separate container for water overflow. Additionally, the Solo rules add "if coolant is used". So does that mean if I run water only, I'm exempt? Does that include Water Wetter?
Moving on to oil. The CGR says my holding tank overflow (B), crankcase breather (A), and transmission pigtail (D) needs one quart. The Solo rules don't mention the transmission or holding tank. And to complicate matters further, I have a '98 Van Diemen, which may (or may not) have a overflow chamber (C) built into the transmission adapter. For more on that, see http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29608 and http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4673.
So, I could tee the crankcase (A) into the holding tank overflow (B) which already goes right into the Van Diemen's special overflow chamber. That would then still be legally vented by it's current breather (C). That leaves the transmission breather/pigtail. It's not specifically covered by the Solo rules, but I assume I would still have to get a quart overflow tank for it. And if I'm going to do that, I might as well just route everything into that tank.
NO, NO, NO
Always use separate overflow containers for water and oil. You never want to introduce the possibility of back sucking water into the oil system nor oil in to the cooling system.
No exemption for water only.. BTW Water Wetter is an excellent product.
CREW for Jeff 89 Reynard or Flag & Comm.
That is referring to air cooled engines.
Jim
I wish I understood everything I know.
Which is why the rules say containers and not container. I'm talking about running my oil holding tank overflow and crankcase breather into one overflow.
And the transmission pigtail is still an issue. If I run that into there (or into my adapter's built in overflow chamber), there may be the possibility of sucking transmission fluid back into the oil system. So, if you really want to be safe and follow the rules exactly, you need three one quart catch cans. One for oil, one for transmission, one for coolant.
But I doubt there's many people, if anyone, actually doing that.
Overflow bottle
That won't happen.
Where it could happen in the cooling system overflow, the oil system operates differently
Unless my adapter's built in overflow chamber was modified by Van Diemen.
I suppose I could answer this question by dumping all the oil from the holding tank and pouring it into the overflow to see if it just flows back into the holding tank.
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