Motor physical dimension needed for gsxr

[Cruzebabuze]

Hi everyone, I am converting an F500 into F600, and I have to make a choice on motorbike motor. I would like to know the actual outside physical dimension of the following motors so I can see which one would fit best

Gsxr600 any year, but the smaller the best
Cbr600 the smallest possible
R6 smallest year possible

Thank you in advance

[Cruzebabuze]

Ok no one was able to get me the real size, so I found a cad model of it and the I went to a friend of mine junkyard, probably the biggest in the world, here down in Az. And found all the motors used in F600. I took a few hrs to look at them and measure them to see which one would fit. I looked at similar year around 2007. It is important to note that I am modifying a 1983 red devil f500 that was racing as f500 until 2003 and is still nasa race able today as it had all the safety mod done. It was actually a nasa instructor that just sold it to me for a really competitive price. Here are my findings:

- Gsxr 600 works if you do a small mod on the top rear frame, creating like one more inch. But you still have to mod the oil pan and exhaust.

- Cbr 600 is too big for my set and would require too much modification not worth it.

- R6 works perfectly without major mod at all (still needs to be seen when I get motor though) but I feel pretty good about it after looking at it for like 30 mins. The best about it is that oil pan is already flat and does not require any mod, simply great. Actually the R family motor is so small, I can fit a R1 in it if I wanted. I don't want to, this car is only 73 wheel base, and should not have more than around 130hp.

So for now I am going to order a complet Yamaha R6 like a 2007 or so.
I have a question for your R6 gurus out there, which year is the smallest, most reliable most powerful R6 motor made. Thank you in advance, now on to find the proper front brake caliper, because the one piston that it has right now is not going to work out with an R6 power plant.

[Cruzebabuze]

It is important to note that every f500 is different in the rear bay. Mine gave me at his min width point 15inch and the same bars were 10 inch off the ground, and I also have 16 inches in length. So for me everything must go through 15x15.
So I went to junkyard and looked at all engines. Gsxr was just under 15inch but that was only the cylinders, the block is wider and the block is at least 12 inches high and the oil pan is real deep, which would require a oil pan mod that is expensive at around $300 to $400.
So I looked at the Yamaha r6 motor, it was only 12 inches wide and around 14 inch in length and 15 inch in height, similar but smaller than gsxr. The thing was that the oil pan is flat and pretty small if you take a 2007 version. Which for me is huge because I am on a small small budget (too many toys, wife asked me to be careful on this toy
So I started to check eBay and craigslist for r6 motor, and I found one Friday that was complete minus carbs on craigslist for only $200. It is a 2001 which is not the best year in size (oil pan is flat but a little bigger than 2007) but it seemed to fit and it was cheap. So I bought figuring that if it does not work, I would use it as mockup and for part later on. The main diff with other new r6 was the carb instead of FI (but I am used to carb and know how to deal with them, and do not know much about FI, and I have a bunch of 37mm kehien laying around so for me not a big deal.
So I got motor brought it back and started to put in in car bay. It is almost a perfect fit beside one side of the lower motor block that needs 1 inch more to be perfectly placed and work. So now my next move is to C notch that bar to let motor pass. The only main problem of r6 versus gsxr is that they sale mounts already done for gsxr motor and do not have custom mounts like that for r6. So I am going to have a body of mine do the mount for me. Mean while I am trying out to simplify harness and get spark from motor. But I have no idea how to simplify harness, but I guess with a goo manual I might be able to figure it out.
For the pedals, especially for clutch, here is the way I did mine. First of all I am using a n electronic pinger shifter, with ignition cut off system, so after going from neutral to 1st gear I don't need the clutch neither up or down, the pinger does cut ignition so I don't have to use clutch. Now to go from neutral to 1st, I can use the pinger but it is not the best for that, so I did what I have on my 125 shifter kart. I put a clutch lever on the steering wheel, it is easy to setup and works great, and actually gives great result. Right now I am looking for 2 or 3 Pistons brake calipers to pump up braking. I am also working on my cad software to create front and rear wing spoiler to create some needed ground force. I will print the main part of the wings in abs plus, then make attachment structure in aluminum and voila I will have down force.
So that is my mod and where I am right now. I am modifying a 1983 red devil f500, what f500 car are you modding and what is your budget? As you can see my budget is real low, around 3k for the whole thing including the f500 formula that cost me $1500. Make sure you f500 loop is big enough to be track legal. Let me know if you need more info.
I think the gsxr is a better motor than r6 because it is more reliable than r6. But r6 has more hp and even with limitor, it will have more bite I think than gsxr. For me the choice was because of cash and size and mod, I choose r6, but if you have the space and cash I would take a gsxr instead of r6

[phantomjock]

Nice effort going on here. Do you have any pictures of the build to share?
TIA, and Cheers - Jim

[TDI PILOT]

Not trying to be a Debbie downer, but your car will no longer be legal for SCCA F500 road racing with your modifications you mentioned. I'm sure you are aware of this, but I'm curious where will you be planning to race this? FS class?

[Cruzebabuze]

I know that, if I do race it, which will probably be only a few local races, seeing that I am very busy, would be FS. Right now I am building a motion activated inter-active aero-dynamic system, installing pingel electronic shifter with cut off switch, extend rear axle. I ,know it will not be competitive for that class, but fast enough to run in it and that is not my goal. My goal is to build a fast, small, and light track toy, so I can track like once or twice a month. Something that does not require a special trailer and can be maintained real easy for cheap. That car setup fit my bill. when I will be done with it, in around one month, the whole thing would have cost me 3k (car included: $1500, and the rest of the parts: $1500, new tires and pingel not included).

Later on if I have time I will do a full front and rear suspension conversion as well as extend it to a longer wheel base. but that is only later when I have more time and more cash, for now it will be enough to have fun.

[Cruzebabuze]

Not trying to be a Debbie downer, but your car will no longer be legal for SCCA F500 road racing with your modifications you mentioned. I'm sure you are aware of this, but I'm curious where will you be planning to race this? FS class?

Without pingel cut off switch, but keeping electronic shifting. taking off aero dynamic, then I can also run it as a F600 class.

[cory mcleod]

Is a 2001 r6 with carbs legal for F500?

[Jnovak]

Is a 2001 r6 with carbs legal for F500?

I think so. Electronic sfifting definitely NOT ALLOWED IN F500.

[Rick Eskola]

Call me @(715)493-2309 I have a 2007 R6 Yamaha.

Thanks

Rick Eskola

[Cruzebabuze]

I think so. Electronic sfifting definitely NOT ALLOWED IN F500.

I will be running fs class so not a big deal for me.
Ok after checking r6 real close I discover a broken teeth on the main camshaft does not get worst than that, not a huge deal, cheap to fix just time consuming. So I decided to get another motor from a friend of mine and give that one free to a body of mine to put in his single seat utv so we can go race baja together (I already have a utv) anyway I got my hand on a 2007 gsxr 600 in perfect shape, runs great. I also got everything to go with it. My body and I already speeded and made C notch side bar mockups. Took us 10 mins, was real easy.
We also welded a bar next to the one we are cutting and C notching to ensure frame does not move when we cut frame and switch it for C notched part. If you don't do that then you are taking the chance of frame being out of alignement. We also moved the rear sprocket to fit motor sproket (yes I am going direct drive, I am used to it I am a shifter kart guy) I also moved and welded a new axle node so motor power does not twist rear axle. Motor should be here this coming Monday. It should take my body and I just one day to install motor in rear bay. Then putting new brakes rotors and calipers and bench bleeding them will take us another 2 hrs. Then onto installing new harness (that will take a while because I have to simplify harness and that is not my best skill, lol) oh yeah I allready have pingel shifter bolted to frame. Then I will need to modify oil pan to a lower profile. Probably get one like a billet one. Oh yeah I forgot the exhaust. I will use original, cut them and re-weld then together at the rear end of frame like a F1 (this will take all day to make). Slap some new tires on it, flash ecu for max optimization.

Now at the same time, I have been designing a movable adjustable rear wing. I am keeping front rear fixed because I don't trail brake (old shifter kart habits are hard to loose) but I want to stick the rear end more on braking and in exit. So cad designed a simple adjustable wing mechanism based out of F1 design. I will be buying a small but real fast actuator on eBay. I will connect it to a small uno arduino board and add a potentiometer with gears on throttle and a touch sensor on brake pedal. I am going to code it so when on throttle it goes to its default position, then during braking it will inclined itself to create more downforce. I am including a small delay of reaction for going back into default position when exiting, so I can still have the most downforce possible when using throttle at after hitting apex. I know people that is that before and it worked real well, actually they did it both in front and rear and it worked real well.
The whole thing should be done and ready for track day by the end of May or mid June at latest.

[Jnovak]

Movable aerodynamic devices are NOT allowed is SCCA racing an that includes the FS class.

[Cruzebabuze]

Movable aerodynamic devices are NOT allowed is SCCA racing an that includes the FS class.

I know that but I don't intend to race much and will simply disconect system for racing. Takes unders one minute to do. Not big deal I will be using it mainly as a track toy.
Thank you for info though

[Cruzebabuze]

ok the power plant conversion is done. We did a simple 90 on one side and gsxr motor fit perfectly. Actually the mount we have let us keep motor high enough so oil pan even fit properly as well as factory exhaust with 3 inches clearance. Modification was easy and was done in 3 hours. all hoses and exhaust have been put in. Now I am building a new firewall with 3 layers of anti heat and will also rap exhaust. It is also time to put new calipers and new ventilated rotors.
Also today I am installing harness and all hoses and also the pingel shifter.

[TDI PILOT]

Did you use the stock oil pan? This will make for a very high CoG. You will also need a larger dedicated oil cooler otherwise you will grenade the main bearings the first time you drive the car.

A bike ridden on the street is mostly driven around at around 5K RPM at low throttle settings. One of these engines in a race car has to push around an extra 400 pounds and is kept in the powerband of 10k-13.5k all the way around the track for 30 minutes straight.

In other words, you ring the guts out of these motors and the stock Oil/Water heat exchanger will not cut it.

[Cruzebabuze]

Did you use the stock oil pan? This will make for a very high CoG. You will also need a larger dedicated oil cooler otherwise you will grenade the main bearings the first time you drive the car.

A bike ridden on the street is mostly driven around at around 5K RPM at low throttle settings. One of these engines in a race car has to push around an extra 400 pounds and is kept in the powerband of 10k-13.5k all the way around the track for 30 minutes straight.

In other words, you ring the guts out of these motors and the stock Oil/Water heat exchanger will not cut it.

Hi there thank you for info, yes for now I have kept stock oil pan. Car is the smallest red devil made so it is only 150lbs heavier than the bike and I am a small driver only 140lbs. But I have a larger oil cooler I was going to put on it because just like you I though about that story. How big do you think I need to get one, I have a fairly big one from a triumph 750, but it might be a little small I am not sure, what type of oil cooler would you advise me to get? Thank you again for tip, I thought about it but was not sure exactly how big I need it. The car with me in it weight only 650lbs, bike without rider is 350lbs and some riders are like 200lbs which brings it to 550lbs which is only 100lbs under the car and me weight. Though I am in Az and it gets hot around here, lol. I was thinking maybe an Haybussa 1300 oil cooler, they are pretty big and I think I have one laying around. I am getting a low profile oil pan and new pick up for it, but I have not decided the brand yet so I have not ordered it yet.

[Cruzebabuze]

ok everyone, I am looking for brake calipers and rotors for car, as of right now it has only a single piston and not that big of a piston. Which makes it obviously dangerous to dirve, especially with the NOT ventilated rotors. So I am looking for as cheap as I can, and I know you get for what you paid, but I am talking about the best price to quality possible at a reasonable price. I need front set up with ventilated disk.

size:
rotor thickness: 10mm
Caliper : 82mm C2C
Rotor: 190mm
Car weight with new motor just under 600lbs

thank you in advance for info

[malexand]

Hi everyone, I am converting an F500 into F600, and I have to make a choice on motorbike motor. I would like to know the actual outside physical dimension of the following motors so I can see which one would fit best

Gsxr600 any year, but the smaller the best
Cbr600 the smallest possible
R6 smallest year possible

Thank you in advance

Could you tell me where you found a cad drawing file for the GSXR600?

[formulasuper]

Movable aerodynamic devices are NOT allowed is SCCA racing an that includes the FS class.

Your welcome.

[Cruzebabuze]

Could you tell me where you found a cad drawing file for the GSXR600?

Pm me and I will email it to you