To all SCCA Vee Drivers

[smsazzy]

The homestead Majors is about $700 after adding a worker fund contribution. That is two races. That's the number is used. Or $350 for a regional.

But my point remains.

[nbrigido]

The homestead Majors is about $700 after adding a worker fund contribution. That is two races. That's the number is used. Or $350 for a regional.

But my point remains.

Without hijacking the tread, this is probably the main reason everyone is so passionate about a spec/alternate tire or a form of cost control for the class.

Track fees are here to stay and usually go up a bit every season. Let's face it, costs are increasing. For a track like Mosport, the average cost for a 2 day regional race is $57,000. Our current entry fee is roughly $460 before taxes, so you require about 124 entries for the weekend entry to break even.

If you don't get the entries next year, if there is a next year, fee's will go up to cover the costs, which means even more money and less drivers. If there is less events, means longer travel between events which means even less...and so on

You can go to a race with old ****ty slicks and race, you cannot race if you don't pay the entry fee.

So control what we can to get more people attending events.

Tires is not the Magic Pill that is going to fix everything, but it is probably the biggest single contributing factor as far as consumable expenditure, and if controlled can effect a seasonal race budget.

BTW Tires are a proven advantage, unlike other modifications. Having a fresh set of slicks will make you usually faster than the driver that has 15 Cycles on them. so there is also the mental aspect, that because a new set is not possible a driver will not be competitive, so why bother.

[bobs66440]

BTW Tires are a proven advantage, unlike other modifications. Having a fresh set of slicks will make you usually faster than the driver that has 15 Cycles on them. so there is also the mental aspect, that because a new set is not possible a driver will not be competitive, so why bother.

This is exactly why I quit back in the 90's. But now because of the spec tire in the Challenge Cup, my buddy and I are coming back and we have hope of being competitive. We are living proof that the rule works. If you are arguing against it, you are ignoring the facts.

What difference does it make what you call the class? Budget, non-budget, entry level, whatever. The fact is, the class has evolved to near pro level and is now self destructing because of cost. You want more cars? Lower the cost. Simple.

[Jphoenix]

Stephen,

Where do you find a race that cost $350.00 to enter?? I just entered my son in the upcoming Major race and it was $540.00. Even regionals at Laguna are $500+

We're lucky up here in the PNW, ICSCC races are typically around $300 for the weekend, 1 practice, 2 quals and a race.

[Amon]

We're lucky up here in the PNW, ICSCC races are typically around $300 for the weekend, 1 practice, 2 quals and a race.

That's about what Nelson Ledges would charge for a double regional before it closed out the SCCA a few years ago.

[Rolling Stone]

I have developed a very clear understanding of how I can enjoy racing. It fits perfectly with my time and financial budget constants. My lack of actual track participation is not really going to have any effect on the future of FV West of the Rockies. It has been dying for two decades and nothing is going to reverse that trend.

Brian

Excuses,Excuses.

[smsazzy]

Noel,
I don't disagree with anything you just said. The point of my post was to call BS that anyone is spending $10,000 on tires in FV.

We don't need to grossly inflate and exaggerate to make the point.

Bottom line to all this debate is to please make sure you reply to the survey. The CRB isn't going to read the arguments on this board. They're going to view the responses by actual FV drivers that respond to the survey.

Stephen

[Robbie.Arthur]

We're lucky up here in the PNW, ICSCC races are typically around $300 for the weekend, 1 practice, 2 quals and a race.

Us up on the west side of Canada are paying 260$ for 1 practise (20 minutes), 2 qualifying (20 minutes), and 3 race (20 minutes) sessions... And that's in Canada, where our dollar sucks the big one right now... Cheap race entries are pretty common up here. Maybe that's why I don't care for a spec tire. We as a majority tend run American Racers up here, with a few guys dropping the money for hoosiers, which are only about a second quicker at Mission at the best of times. A sorted car with a driver that knows the track can run AM's at Mission and still be competitive.

[Ed Womer]

I do like reading the posts on this site about a lot of the topics and Dean told me of a post on You Tube of the last Challenge Cup race of the year and I went and found it and watched it this morning. Look for FV Challenge Cup Series finale NJMP 8 30 15 and you will get to watch a great race among the top three cars with Ray Carmody in the black Mysterian, me in the white BRD and Jack Maloney in the camera car.

WARNING! don't watch if you don't enjoy racing with your friends with many position changes and never knowing who is going to lead the next lap. This is what racing should be like if everyone wants to have fun, the only thing is you have to pony up for the car and the entry fees but without all of the BS of tire work. Like Noel said he raced for years and never had to change tires and only purchased two sets.
In that race weekend I did check the tire pressure and the wheel nuts for tightness but wasn't constantly switching slicks like I used to in national racing which is how you manage the tires to get the most out of them.
Ed

[gbmetcalf]

Noel,
I don't disagree with anything you just said. The point of my post was to call BS that anyone is spending $10,000 on tires in FV.

We don't need to grossly inflate and exaggerate to make the point.

Bottom line to all this debate is to please make sure you reply to the survey. The CRB isn't going to read the arguments on this board. They're going to view the responses by actual FV drivers that respond to the survey.

Stephen

My thoughts exactly!!! Fill out the survey.

G.

[Ed Womer]

I just went back and read what Dean said about tire costs and it was for 2 years not 1. So with a set at $900+ 3 sets for 6-7 races and at least 2 for the runoffs that is $6000 a year and a is a very real look at what it cost to run on slicks. So can you do it for less, well sure but if you have a good car and are a competent driver you won't be happy unless you have newer tires and can be competitive.

The difference in tire use can also be looked at the difference between regional and national racing because at nationals the time on the track is more and you usually are trying to go as fast as possible most of the time instead of driving around and having fun so the tires get used up faster.

Ed

[smsazzy]

I just paid $750 delivered to my door.

[gbmetcalf]

I do like reading the posts on this site about a lot of the topics and Dean told me of a post on You Tube of the last Challenge Cup race of the year and I went and found it and watched it this morning. Look for FV Challenge Cup Series finale NJMP 8 30 15 and you will get to watch a great race among the top three cars with Ray Carmody in the black Mysterian, me in the white BRD and Jack Maloney in the camera car.

WARNING! don't watch if you don't enjoy racing with your friends with many position changes and never knowing who is going to lead the next lap. This is what racing should be like if everyone wants to have fun, the only thing is you have to pony up for the car and the entry fees but without all of the BS of tire work. Like Noel said he raced for years and never had to change tires and only purchased two sets.
In that race weekend I did check the tire pressure and the wheel nuts for tightness but wasn't constantly switching slicks like I used to in national racing which is how you manage the tires to get the most out of them.
Ed

Ed:
That was a great race!
Here's the finish from the tower..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f0Xbn-QyRM

G.

[bobs66440]

I do like reading the posts on this site about a lot of the topics and Dean told me of a post on You Tube of the last Challenge Cup race of the year and I went and found it and watched it this morning. Look for FV Challenge Cup Series finale NJMP 8 30 15 and you will get to watch a great race among the top three cars with Ray Carmody in the black Mysterian, me in the white BRD and Jack Maloney in the camera car.

WARNING! don't watch if you don't enjoy racing with your friends with many position changes and never knowing who is going to lead the next lap. This is what racing should be like if everyone wants to have fun, the only thing is you have to pony up for the car and the entry fees but without all of the BS of tire work. Like Noel said he raced for years and never had to change tires and only purchased two sets.
In that race weekend I did check the tire pressure and the wheel nuts for tightness but wasn't constantly switching slicks like I used to in national racing which is how you manage the tires to get the most out of them.
Ed

I watched that video twice and all I can say is WOW! If that doesn't make you want to get in there and mix it up, nothing will! The video from the tower was a great perspective also!

[lucky13]

No one racing in the Challenge Cup is having fun. How could we when the lead group is two seconds slower per lap than they would be on slicks?

We THINK we are because we are a bunch of dummies who don't know any better and we are being tricked by the lack of tire bills, the camaraderie, the beer, food, and hospitality on Saturday evening, etc..

[bobs66440]

No one racing in the Challenge Cup is having fun. How could we when the lead group is two seconds slower per lap than they would be on slicks?

We THINK we are because we are a bunch of dummies who don't know any better and we are being tricked by the lack of tire bills, the camaraderie, the beer, food, and hospitality on Saturday evening, etc..

Ha ha ha, well said!

[Matt King]

I just paid $750 delivered to my door.

Do you have a tire mounting machine? If not, how much is M&B?

[Amon]

It's $15 per tire at my local shop.

Mark

[gbmetcalf]

No one racing in the Challenge Cup is having fun. How could we when the lead group is two seconds slower per lap than they would be on slicks?

We THINK we are because we are a bunch of dummies who don't know any better and we are being tricked by the lack of tire bills, the camaraderie, the beer, food, and hospitality on Saturday evening, etc..

Can't wait. Dang winter

G.

[Amon]

Can't wait. Dang winter

G.

G.B.:

If you're running with the Challenge Cup group, then you're NOT using slicks so why let the snow slow you down?

Mark

[bobs66440]

No one racing in the Challenge Cup is having fun. How could we when the lead group is two seconds slower per lap than they would be on slicks?

We THINK we are because we are a bunch of dummies who don't know any better and we are being tricked by the lack of tire bills, the camaraderie, the beer, food, and hospitality on Saturday evening, etc..

G.B.:

If you're running with the Challenge Cup group, then you're NOT using slicks so why let the snow slow you down?

Mark

Blizzaks!!

[smsazzy]

Do you have a tire mounting machine? If not, how much is M&B?

I bought a manual mounter. No need to balance on an FV.

[nbrigido]

No one racing in the Challenge Cup is having fun. How could we when the lead group is two seconds slower per lap than they would be on slicks?

We THINK we are because we are a bunch of dummies who don't know any better and we are being tricked by the lack of tire bills, the camaraderie, the beer, food, and hospitality on Saturday evening, etc..

And girls.....

[Amon]

And girls.....

Where is Dean looking cause the girls are to his right?

Mark

[killerken53]

What snow? It's supposed to be in the 60s this weekend in western Pennsylvania.

[Dean Curtis]

Where is Dean looking cause the girls are to his right?

Mark

I was making sure someone had a camera. Don't worry I LOOKED. That was a great weekend!!

[pacratt]

No need to balance on an FV.

ALMOST true...unless you have a wheel that was "dinged".
I once ran a wheel / tire that was so out-of-balance, the vibration left my hands & wrists numb after a race.
Bubble balancing should be the minimum.
I picked up an industrial bubble balancer (for truck tires) that works with my VW wheel adapter, for $50.00 on an auction site.

Glenn Lange

[smsazzy]

A dinged wheel doesn't vibrate because of the weight. Think about it, you're move a fraction of an ounce maybe a quarter inch closer to the center of a 15" wheel. The amount of extra weight needed to counteract that would be so small the balancer wouldn't even notice.

Every balance problem I have had on an FV was due to the weight the tire guys added. So I stopped having them balanced and boom, no more balance issues.

I tried the bubble. Balanced for a while. But I would balance a tire, take it off, wait 2 minutes and put it back on and the balancer would think it was off. So I stopped doing that too.

I know there are a lot of us that don't balance tires. Not saying you can't or shouldn't, just that for me, I don't feel a need most of the time.

If a tire was far off, I would notice during the scrub in session on the tire.

My experience is on Hoosiers and American Racers. Can't speak to others.

[budawe]

Unlike modern equipment, a bubble balancer has no push to zero button. Having a consistent basis to balance tires, is up to the operator. You have to level the balancer first before you add a tire. If you are using an adapter like we do, you must center the unit with the adapter included. It's all about having a baseline. I like to index my wheel and tire and put the valve stem at 6 oclock. Once the tire is balanced, rotate the valve stem to 12 oclock and see if it stills is balanced. If not start over.

With all due respect to the tire guys, when you do a few dozen a day you can't always do this.

[fv9]

The US has more lawyers per capita than anywhere else in the world. Still wonder why everyone wants a contract? .

Stupid lawyers.

[Bruce]

Good one Quinn esq.