2017 Indy Runoffs

[WASP]

Has anyone given thought to asking for a FST class at Indy. I know we are Regional
only but I would hate to miss that race.

[Diamond Level Motorsports]

SCCA GCR

3.1.1.F. Classes to be included in U.S. Majors Tour events:
1. Some non-Runoffs-eligible classes may be included in U.S. Majors Tour Championship events to encourage participation.

There is a way.

FST in the Majors program would be awesome. I think a pretty compelling argument could be made also.

Mid Ohio would be awesome also.

[budawe]

Non majors classes are welcome at under subscribed Majors events to be able to run in their own groups but are not included for Runoff qualification.

[formulasuper]

Non majors classes are welcome at under subscribed Majors events to be able to run in their own groups but are not included for Runoff qualification.

So how do we know which Majors events will allow non-Majors classes?

[budawe]

Since it will depend on participation and the hosting region, I would keep an eye on the local websites. When the event rolls up on a registration site like MSR, it will list the schedule.

[Diamond Level Motorsports]

If you are interested in a bringing FST to a particular Major event just send a request to the region hosting, or the Major divisional leader, and it might get done.

This year at the runoffs at Daytona the GT1 class had a whopping 7 starters, FA had 10 starters, FC had 10, FM had 10, GT3 had 10, GTL had 9, P1 had 10, T1 had 12, T3 had 5.

This is pathetic and these classes should loose their status as Major classes. I would be willing to bet FST would do better then that. I would be there if the class was offered.

[rave motorsports]

We would be in with both cars I'm sure. Just doing a quick count in my head I bet we would hit at least 18. I bet 4 just from Nashville.

[Bill Bonow]

Non majors classes are welcome at under subscribed Majors events to be able to run in their own groups but are not included for Runoff qualification.

The intent is certainly nice, but think about the reality of this actually happening:
Another race group to be added to an under subscribed Major event?
Track time lost to a "non-Runoffs" class.
I foresee torches and pitchforks from the "regular" Majors entrants.
From my cheap seats, this option falls under: "tough road to hoe"

If another option to allow non-runoffs classes to run in Majors events without the addition of race groups came into play, then I think the SCCA could realize additional Majors entries from the FST rank and file.

[Diamond Level Motorsports]

If another option to allow non-runoffs classes to run in Majors events without the addition of race groups came into play, then I think the SCCA could realize additional Majors entries from the FST rank and file.

That would be the option I would favor. Last thing we need is another race group. FST plays well with FF and FV and thus would fit into that group at the majors level nicely.

[butch deer]

I can see this happening at several majors if the normal race group is under subscribed. This is the case with the FF,FV group at most majors. I really doubt it would happen at the Runoffs anytime soon.

[rave motorsports]

Even the Red Headed Step Child can dream of being Cinderella at the ball!! Your right though Bill it's up hill to be included in the Runoffs but then again if it was easy anybody could do it.

The intent is certainly nice, but think about the reality of this actually happening:
Another race group to be added to an under subscribed Major event?
Track time lost to a "non-Runoffs" class.
I foresee torches and pitchforks from the "regular" Majors entrants.
From my cheap seats, this option falls under: "tough road to hoe"

If another option to allow non-runoffs classes to run in Majors events without the addition of race groups came into play, then I think the SCCA could realize additional Majors entries from the FST rank and file.

[rave motorsports]

I guess I'm the hopeless Optomist/ Romantic. I decided to join the FST class in 2012. We purchased our first Evolution in 2013. I've lived through a share of the FV vs FST drama but granted no where near the amount that the founders have. That rift honestly is just not important to us. Linda and I have been blessed by a ton of support in our FST journey by Jim Schings, Larry Campbell, Robert Guhde, Butch Deer, & Bill Bonow. We have fantastic competitors like Doug Seim, George Prodiski, Sam Farminga, Butch Deer, Doug Sharp, Matt Gordon, & Gary Moorman. We were beyond lucky to have Robert Clark drive for us. Rob, you made us look so much better than we really are. Are we the underdogs, hell yes. Do I relish that role? Yep, can't remember very many times I haven't been the underdog. For the guys that are building FST's now, the guys who have had to be on the sidelines for the last year, & the guys in Regions with just a couple of cars I applaud you. That was us a year ago. We are all part of a group that really embodies what CLUB RACING was meant to be. Let's all go make a Major happen. It's time for us all to step up, BELIEVE, and enjoy. After all Fun & Memories is what we take home.

[Jay Jacobellis]

What can we do to help. We will be running 3 regional events with SCCA this year we would love to get to Indy. Should have 6 to 8 FST cars this year. How can we make it happen.

Jay

[Speed Sport Engineering]

That would be the option I would favor. Last thing we need is another race group. FST plays well with FF and FV and thus would fit into that group at the majors level nicely.

Actually, the last thing we need is another class within the existing race groups. I understand fst and fv at similar in lap times, but can you imagine the frustration among the fv drivers when stuck behind a fst? It reeks of the old 440 days.

[rave motorsports]

Imagine the frustration when the FST guy is stuck behind the FV. We can all play nice together. We all have to now almost every weekend. We are all striving for our own gold.

Actually, the last thing we need is another class within the existing race groups. I understand fst and fv at similar in lap times, but can you imagine the frustration among the fv drivers when stuck behind a fst? It reeks of the old 440 days.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

Imagine the frustration when the FST guy is stuck behind the FV. We can all play nice together. We all have to now almost every weekend. We are all striving for our own gold.

My comment was based on fst should be the faster class, but after watching the results over the years that isn't the case. In fact, the track records are only slightly faster. Considering the hp increase, i would have to assume the fst cars accelerate better, making it nearly impossible for a fv to pass, much like trying to pass a f500 running similar lap times. If a fst can't pass a fv, then there is something wrong with the fst and he should not be interfering.

Remember, those of us in fv don't want additional classes mixed in no matter what the cause. If you guys wanted to run majors and runoffs, then you should have picked a runoffs eligible class. I know that sounds harsh, but someone had to say it. If you can do it and not diminish the experience of the current fv drivers, then go nuts. But i dont see how that is possible. Plus imagine the outcry from the IT crowd. At that point, the floodgates will be open and we'll have 56 classes at the runoffs.

[rave motorsports]

We spend thousands just like FV guys. We were taken out in Bowling Green in the lead by a slow FV with a corner and a straight from a checker that in the end would have given us our championship. Because someone in a big chair in Topeka didn't declare our thousands as valuable as yours doesn't mean it's not important to me. Maybe if they did it would be in a better place. Yes, you guys are the king but like my earlier comment it's still only about the memories and the fun.

[Bill Bonow]

Remember, those of us in fv don't want additional classes mixed in no matter what the cause.

Mike,

I'm sure other Majors entrants would give a pretty strong argument on why mixing classes is WAY better vs. adding an additional race group. Everyone would get less track time per entry dollar.

Group mixing with FV, F5 and FF is typical for many Major events
Add FST to that mix at non-majors events.
I've had races screwed up by guys in my class and guys in other classes.
My bet it's happened to you as well.
There is no easy answer.

[butch deer]

Single class racing is the best. But the only way I know to guarantee that is by having a class that can fully subscribe a race group or at least come close. At one time the GCR gave some classes a one class race but as entries died off that went away. The 2nd way to single class racing is to raise the entry fees to classes with less than full subscriptions. I.E. those with a 10 car class pay twice as much as those in a 20 car class. The SCCA and MWCSCC have never in there history followed this model. Instead they group multiple smaller classes together to fill a race group. Since the SCCA is loosing entries they are following multiple strategies to keep there programs going and keep fees as reasonable as possible. I see this new program as inevitable as the number of entries don't seem to be enough to sustain two tiers of club racing. The choice will come down to a one tier system or turn away some portion of the club and raise fees for those others.

P.S. In another thread on this forum I see that SVRA(a so called vintage group) is now accepting FF'S as new as 2008 in an attempt to fill there groups.

[Diamond Level Motorsports]

SVRA will also accept FST cars and they can run within the FF group. I know because I ran a SVRA race earlier this year. It was a fun event.

[pacratt]

We were taken out in Bowling Green in the lead by a slow FV with a corner and a straight from a checker that in the end would have given us our championship.

I know what the FV vs. FST thing was all about 5-10 years ago, but it really doesn't wash these days.
YOUR incident was the result of a bad move, or possibly even a bad driver in general.
What he was driving has nothing to do with it. Could just as easily have been a slow FST.

I'm jus' sayin'...
Glenn

[rave motorsports]

That was exactly my point when Mike singled out slow FST tying up the FV. It's not a single class issue its a driver issue.

I know what the FV vs. FST thing was all about 5-10 years ago, but it really doesn't wash these days.
YOUR incident was the result of a bad move, or possibly even a bad driver in general.
What he was driving has nothing to do with it. Could just as easily have been a slow FST.

I'm jus' sayin'...
Glenn

[Amon]

We spend thousands just like FV guys. We were taken out in Bowling Green in the lead by a slow FV with a corner and a straight from a checker that in the end would have given us our championship. Because someone in a big chair in Topeka didn't declare our thousands as valuable as yours doesn't mean it's not important to me. Maybe if they did it would be in a better place. Yes, you guys are the king but like my earlier comment it's still only about the memories and the fun.

One race doesn't win or loses a championship!

[B Farnham]

That was exactly my point when Mike singled out slow FST tying up the FV. It's not a single class issue its a driver issue.

The point is a slow FV cannot hold up a fast FST for more than a corner or two. A slow FST can hold up an FV for multiple laps. The HP and torque advantage make it hard to get past a slow FST no matter how fast you are in the corners. I had this happen to me at Watkins Glen last year.

[problemchild]

Interesting topic. There are 28 Runoff classes that any racer can choose if they are determined to do the Runoffs.

This really is a much more complex issue that SCCA needs to deal with. As long as we/they let them stick their heads up their butts, and run National Championship events with 9 car fields ..... claiming everything is great, 50+ years of stability, member-driven club, blah, blah, blah ...... then keeping the Runoffs to 28 "exclusive" classes makes as much sense as 9-car fields, $600 paddock parking spots on the grass that are 3/4 miles away from the grid, 10 day events, open tires on FVs, etc. The whole SCCA process as it stands in 2016 needs to be "blowed up" or undergo major reform.

My primary goal in all this stuff is to actually find solutions, so that puts be in conflict with any SCCA politician ..... but I try anyway. In this particular case, FF and FV are still reasonably subscribed and deserve to remain single class. FB is doing reasonably well. F500, FC, FE, FM, and FA all are struggling to field proper sized Runoff fields. The obvious solution would be to bring FST, CF, and F600 into a group with F500 ...... and combine FC, FE, FM, and FA together. Going forward, have 5 Formula car groups .... let the best supported 3 have their own race and combine the rest into 2 groups.

Yes, I know that is way outside the box for SCCA ..... but if FST guys want to do the Runoffs, they need to work with another class on the participation threshold ..... F500 being the obvious choice.

This approach is probably the key to making the whole Runoff adventure viable. 14 race groups. Half are stand alone classes and half are mixed. One day practice. One day qualifying. Two days of racing. Save the single class features for Sunday afternoon as the showcase events. We might even be able to sell tickets to spectators if we ran, for example, FF, SRF, FV, SM back to back to close the event.

[Doug FST 5]

Personally I don't expect to see an FST turn a wheel at the Runoffs until some personnel changes happen at the home office. That said, if any run group is undersubscribed at a Major I'd think the classes in that run group should expect an effort to seek additional revenue. If that happens in the group that makes sense for FST, and if it fits in the Hoosier Series schedule, it could be fun.

Doug FST 5

[WASP]

Overtaking and passing is good racing no matter what you are driving. Good practice for when you are working for the win. Bring it on!