Wheel failure

[scotech1au]

Anybody seen a Jongbloed wheel shear the center machined spokes and separate?

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I haven't, but the older wheels are cast centers and the newer ones I believe are billet centers (330's).

http://jongbloedracing.com/wordpress/?page_id=57


So I assume you are talking about the newer billet ones or are you talking about the new 1 piece wheels (300's)

http://jongbloedracing.com/wordpress/?page_id=51

[scotech1au]

defiantly the newer billet center job.

[Jphoenix]

Yes, saw one three years ago at the Majors at Pacific Raceways in Seattle, I believe it was on Miles Jackson's SR, but may have been a different car. Had the clear 45 degree ductile overload ridge, no beach marks. Just looked to me like it the spoke in that section were overloaded and failed. didn't spend much time looking at it, so hard to tell what part of the wheel failed first - but was in the spokes, no other apparent impact marks anywhere else. Was on a drive wheel, maybe too many horsepowers?

[ghickman]

I had one fail 5 years ago at Thunderhill at about 100mph. I did the most violent 720 degree spin. I believe the data showed something on the order of 15g's.

Luckily there were no cars anywhere close to me and I didn't hit anything. We found the tire / wheel about 1/4 mile away out in the middle of the grass lands on the south 40.

Larry Vollum had one fail on him a few years ago at Pacific Raceway, that ended up badly.

Easy way to tell if you have one of the older "THIN CENTER" is measure out at the outer rim of the wheel center. If it doesn't measure .5" thick get it off the car as soon as possible.

Many of the Stohr cars came with these "Thin Centers". I urge all Stohr owners to check them.

[David Locke]

Easy way to tell if you have one of the older "THIN CENTER" is measure out at the outer rim of the wheel center. If it doesn't measure .5" thick get it off the car as soon as possible.

Many of the Stohr cars came with these "Thin Centers". I urge all Stohr owners to check them.

Gary:

I have some three-piece Jongbloeds that came with my Stohr, but I've looked at mine and I'm not sure where you're measuring the outer rim of the wheel center. Could you please provide a bit more information? Thank you.

[R. Pare]

Question: Have any of the wheels that have failed been anodized?

[ghickman]

Richard
The one that failed on my car was anodized. The one on Vollum's car was not anodized.

David
I'll post a picture of where to measure the wheel center to determine what generation it is.

[reidhazelton]

I saw this recently first hand on a brand new 1pc wheel (300 Aero) with very little time on it. Happened on 4 wheels they had. Not anodized. Rear wheels only, on a P2 car.

Only reason I mention it is this thread makes me think there might be a safety issue and I'd hate to see someone get hurt.

[ghickman]

Attached are pictures of where to measure a Jongbloed 3 pc wheel center to determine what generation it is.

They should measure .5" out at the rim. As I recall the old ones where something like .375 or .4.

Keep in mind this really is nothing new. This problem was noted many years ago. It surprises me that there are still some thin centers out there and folks don't know about this.

In Jongbloed's defense this all started when the high D/F Stohr DSR came out and then shortly after the F1000's. My opinion is the cars were generating cornering forces that frankly Jongbloed had never seen.

Something else I should mention. Aluminum has a fatigue life so wheel centers don't last forever. At a minimum you should be doing a visual inspection after every race weekend. Not hard to do. I caught one years ago that had a crack, that was between sessions at Fontana, would have been bad if it failed on the oval banking.

[R. Pare]

Richard
The one that failed on my car was anodized. The one on Vollum's car was not anodized.

David
I'll post a picture of where to measure the wheel center to determine what generation it is.

OK. Sounds like a possible combination of issues - and overstressed design that was inadequate for the loads those cars impose ( the too-thin spokes in one case) and possibly cracked anodizing causing stress risers in the other.

Anodizing wheel centers is really a big no-no, unless it is an extremely understressed design.

[ghickman]

The wheel centers we use on the Phoenix cars are a direct result of what we learned by doing extensive FEA on Jongbloed centers. We build a much higher safety margin into our centers.

The thicker Jongbloed centers are fine, I haven't heard of our seen one of those fail. Just needed some added material and all was good.

[David Locke]

Attached are pictures of where to measure a Jongbloed 3 pc wheel center to determine what generation it is.

They should measure .5" out at the rim. As I recall the old ones where something like .375 or .4.

Keep in mind this really is nothing new. This problem was noted many years ago. It surprises me that there are still some thin centers out there and folks don't know about this.

In Jongbloed's defense this all started when the high D/F Stohr DSR came out and then shortly after the F1000's. My opinion is the cars were generating cornering forces that frankly Jongbloed had never seen.

Something else I should mention. Aluminum has a fatigue life so wheel centers don't last forever. At a minimum you should be doing a visual inspection after every race weekend. Not hard to do. I caught one years ago that had a crack, that was between sessions at Fontana, would have been bad if it failed on the oval banking.

Thanks. My Jongbloeds came with the car when I bought it in 2009. The centers measure .75" out at the rim, so they must be a different wheel.

[JerryH]

We have not had any wheel cracking problems with the Jongbloed wheels on any of the 6 JDR F1000 cars that are out running.

They all measure .5 inches in the area Gary talked about.

I believe all wheels made since 2011 or so have the thicker outer section.

Of course nothing last forever.....so crack checking is a good idea when they get some time on them.

Jerry

[ghickman]

One really quick way to spot the thin centers is if the bolt threads are sticking out beyond the face of the center then they are most likely the thin centers.

The thicker centers the threads are either flush or slightly below flush.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

One really quick way to spot the thin centers is if the bolt threads are sticking out beyond the face of the center then they are most likely the thin centers.

The thicker centers the threads are either flush or slightly below flush.

Unless you used slightly longer bolts the last time you reconditioned the wheels - which I did. Don't like unused threads and dirt poackets....

[Ivinsea]

This:

One really quick way to spot the thin centers is if the bolt threads are sticking out beyond the face of the center then they are most likely the thin centers.

The thicker centers the threads are either flush or slightly below flush.

On old-style thin center wheels, the bolts will stick out 1/16" or 1/8".

I first heard about this 3 years ago; my brother's car is chassis #9 and mine is #20. His car has 4 wheels out of 8 that were thin; mine were all thick.

IIRC Jongbloed replaced them at no cost but it would have been nice if they had more actively communicated an informal recall.

[jaygauthier]

This wheel failure happened to me yesterday at Lime Rock Park on the downhill with a 2-month old set of Jongbloewd Wheels. The inner hub of the rear driver's side wheel completely sheered away off from the rest of the wheel at 95+mph on the downhill. The wheel completely disintegrated and send me into a 720 degree spin into the grass and tirewall. The car came to a stop with the wheel center still bolted to the wheel hub. I have full video and photos but I am going to contact Jongbloed next week to see what can be done before I post the video and photos for all to see. I was lucky as the outcome could have been so much worse, but at this point I am shelving two new sets of Jongbloed 300-Aeros.

[reidhazelton]

This wheel failure happened to me yesterday at Lime Rock Park on the downhill with a 2-month old set of Jongbloewd Wheels. The inner hub of the rear driver's side wheel completely sheered away off from the rest of the wheel at 95+mph on the downhill. The wheel completely disintegrated and send me into a 720 degree spin into the grass and tirewall. The car came to a stop with the wheel center still bolted to the wheel hub. I have full video and photos but I am going to contact Jongbloed next week to see what can be done before I post the video and photos for all to see. I was lucky as the outcome could have been so much worse, but at this point I am shelving two new sets of Jongbloed 300-Aeros.

SEE POST 9.

Same scenario, same wheel, and also same as the original post. I strongly suggest no one use these until they figure out the issue. When I saw it fail, the wheels had about 8 sessions on them. One wheel failed entirely and pulled the center out as has been described, and the others were cracked and ready to fail the same way.

This has been a known issue for 4 months now and I had hoped Jongbloed would have called those who bought these. I'm sorry to hear about your failure and resultant crash.

[ghickman]

POST #18 what type of car were these on?

I don't believe I've ever seen these 300 series Aero wheels, are they a 1 piece wheel? If so are they cast or forged?

[reidhazelton]

Gary:
http://jongbloedracing.com/wordpress/?page_id=51

[Roland V. Johnson]

I had the same issues with a low time set of wheels for a customer's Crossle Club Ford. When this issue was discussed with another racer who was buying a new set of Jongbloed's I got a call from Jongbloed asking me to send the centers back so they could make things right. That was over two years ago and they have not sent replacements or answered my calls for over a year and a half.

[ghickman]

I had the same issues with a low time set of wheels for a customer's Crossle Club Ford. When this issue was discussed with another racer who was buying a new set of Jongbloed's I got a call from Jongbloed asking me to send the centers back so they could make things right. That was over two years ago and they have not sent replacements or answered my calls for over a year and a half.

Fairly certain these posts will get back to Ryan at Jongbloed. My dealings with Ryan have always been positive.

Those 300 series Aero wheels look exactly like the 3 pc. wheel accept they are 1 pc. Hopefully Jongbloed allowed extra material in their forging that they can rectify this problem. If it's a casting that could be another story.

The wheel business is a very tricky biz to be in.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

The original post was a 3 piece. This latest was a 1 piece.
The spokes on the 1 piece (300) look much thinner...

[reidhazelton]

The original post was a 3 piece. This latest was a 1 piece.
The spokes on the 1 piece (300) look much thinner...

My mistake, I misread the post and the link it was referring to. However, it's not the spokes that fail, it the center bore where the spoke originate from on these 1pc wheels. IMO, it's a design issue. The material is way, way to thin in that area. It looks like they took an FF wheel and just stretched it out to make 8s and 10s.

[ghickman]

My mistake, I misread the post and the link it was referring to. However, it's not the spokes that fail, it the center bore where the spoke originate from on these 1pc wheels. IMO, it's a design issue. The material is way, way to thin in that area. It looks like they took an FF wheel and just stretched it out to make 8s and 10s.

The 3 pc wheels failed in the same place. This is where the highest loads are. Done some extensive FEA on wheel centers. This is the reason why we machine our own centers.

[RyanatJongbloed]

Roland,

Will call you on Monday find out what you are talking about.

Respectfully
Ryan Dettling
Jongbloed racing Wheels

I had the same issues with a low time set of wheels for a customer's Crossle Club Ford. When this issue was discussed with another racer who was buying a new set of Jongbloed's I got a call from Jongbloed asking me to send the centers back so they could make things right. That was over two years ago and they have not sent replacements or answered my calls for over a year and a half.

[RyanatJongbloed]

Hello All,

If anyone has any questions please call me to discuss. Mr Gauthers wheels are a forged 1pc wheel on the rear of a carbir. I have identified the problem which is a design issue for the NEW CARBIR WHEEL only. I will replace them. Jerry Hodges is correct, things don't last forever and I always stand behind my product. If you have ever been in an accident where you have to replace a wheel half you MUST check the center before bolting the wheel back together. Customers will replace the rim half without checking the center. If the center is bent is should not go back on the car. I am trying to find out what the issue is on the one is Australia. It was anodized black and don't know much more.

Respectfully,
Ryan Dettling
Jongbloed Racing wheels
408 776 1380
ryan@jongbloedracing.com

[JRO183]

I don't have any experience with the 1-piece wheels, but I've had no issues with the 3-piece wheels in 10 years of using them. With very few manufacturers available to supply out cars, I'm very grateful Ryan is building wheels. I don't have any issues recommending the 3-piece wheels to anyone, sports racers included.

JRO

[Bob Wheless]

I have had no issues with many sets of his wheels,,,,,,bob

[zanegibbs]

Like JRO, I too have the 3-piece wheels (anodized) and have had no problems. Both sets that I own have been great.

[Revs2-12k]

I run Jongbloed Racing Wheels 3 piece versions and I want to give props to Ryan Dettling for his excellent service after the sale.

I glanced of the wall at Road Atlanta a few years ago and sent him my rear 330 Aero wheel for inspection & repair. Could'nt ask for any better service from racing wheel company. He later stopped by my paddock at the Runoffs at Road America to check up on me. Doubt I'd get that kind of personal attention from the others.

Just like any other component on a 150+MPH Race Car; A pre-race Inspection Check List is important...then inspect again at the track.

[Roland V. Johnson]

My wheel centers arrived.

[ghickman]

My wheel centers arrived.

Awesome.... and once again the power of Apexspeed.

[RyanatJongbloed]

It was a miscommunication between Roland and myself. I though I had already sent those to him a while ago.