Runoffs expenses

[jhenn4716]

This is a question for all those who have been to a runoffs before. Had a few questions related to budget. From your race season and the runoffs themselves. I'm curious on the difference between qualifying through the divisional route versus the majors. For the runoffs, what did you spend? Not all of us can afford brand new tires every session (not naming names)

What was your overall budget for the season and the runoffs. Were you under, over or right on budget.

Thanks!

[Purple Frog]

Interesting question, but will it yield any valuable information?

Someone who budgeted for lots of tires, lots of spare high class motors, a large crew staying in nice hotels, may have budgeted $50,000 for the year and ended up coming in under budget. While someone driving to the track with an open trailer and a tent to sleep in by himself while racing on used tires, may have budgeted $8,000 for the year and come in over budget.

[jhenn4716]

It would be interesting to see the range of what people budget. Most of us probably wouldn't be on the high end. But I'm really curious to see what someone on a tight budget could realistically end up spending.

[Jnovak]

All you have and can borrow.

[problemchild]

All you have and can borrow.

Unfortunately, for SCCA, there are fewer and fewer of people that think that way, and many of the decisions made are for this diminishing group.

I am also trying to determine which route is more viable, but have no personal experience with qualifying via the non-Majors route. I think the costs via the Majors route are much easier to project. While my interest is more FF related, I would be interested in feedback from those that have qualified without doing Majors. My head starts hurting when I read the rules regarding this topic and try and apply them to my situation.

Does anyone know if SCCA will create a special rule to let local racers qualify for Mid-Ohio like they did for Laguna? ....... or is that just a last minute deal for when entries are poor?

[Diamond Level Motorsports]

From what I remember San Francisco region negotiated that regional qualifying option so it wouldn't kill the local regional racing program.

We did the major route and qualified for the runoffs in only 3 race weekends. Of course the major races required more travel expense ( Nor-Cal to So-Cal) but the upside was by April we were already qualified and had plenty of time to prepare for the actual race.

The guys that qualified through the regional program had to run more race weekends. I believe they had to finish in the top 50% in class to qualify. So the local program would have less travel expenses but more entry and tire expenses. Additionally the regional program required a larger time (race weekend) commitment.

Another advantage of the major program for us was the class grouping. FV, FF, F500. In the regional program in SFR we have to run with FV, CF, FF, FST, F500, and FC's which in my option is crazy. The FC's should be in the formula alphabet group.

Based on the next two Runoffs venues (Mid Ohio & Indy) we will not be running many regional races. The Major program is far more attractive to me then the regional program.

[problemchild]

From what I remember San Francisco region negotiated that regional qualifying option so it wouldn't kill the local regional racing program.

We did the major route and qualified for the runoffs in only 3 race weekends. Of course the major races required more travel expense ( Nor-Cal to So-Cal) but the upside was by April we were already qualified and had plenty of time to prepare for the actual race.

The guys that qualified through the regional program had to run more race weekends. I believe they had to finish in the top 50% in class to qualify. So the local program would have less travel expenses but more entry and tire expenses. Additionally the regional program required a larger time (race weekend) commitment.

Another advantage of the major program for us was the class grouping. FV, FF, F500. In the regional program in SFR we have to run with FV, CF, FF, FST, F500, and FC's which in my option is crazy. The FC's should be in the formula alphabet group.

Thanks Scott. Good analysis. Those were some of the conclusions I was reaching. The regional route is perceived as a shortcut but probably is the opposite.

[Bruce Livermore]

A couple comments:

Which route is easier (or cheaper) will probably depend on what area you race in since it will depend on how many competitors there are. There is no simple answer.

That said, if you are competitive enough, it should be cheaper to just run 3 Majors where ever you are. In a low participation area, it might be "easier" to qualify via the Divisional route though if participation is low enough it might not matter.

All that said, I think most important is to keep in mind what you are really trying to do if you do qualify. If you are trying to win the Runoffs you will need to spend what it takes. If you just want to participate, you can probably reduce your expenses dramatically and still have a lot of fun. You will not need new tires for every session, just "good enough" tires that they won't go off during a session.

I remember what Bob Lybarger told me the first time I qualified: "Bruce, a best you can, treat it as just another race. Don't go crazy (like so many) and spend wildly and regret it. You will NOT do well in your first Runoffs, you will be learning." Great advice from Bob as always.

My last point: if you haven't raced Mid-Ohio, DON'T wait for the Runoffs to race there. It is a hard track to learn so you need to get there as many times as you can before October.

Bruce

[Jnovak]

Unfortunately, for SCCA, there are fewer and fewer of people that think that way, and many of the decisions made are for this diminishing group.

I am also trying to determine which route is more viable, but have no personal experience with qualifying via the non-Majors route. I think the costs via the Majors route are much easier to project. While my interest is more FF related, I would be interested in feedback from those that have qualified without doing Majors. My head starts hurting when I read the rules regarding this topic and try and apply them to my situation.

Does anyone know if SCCA will create a special rule to let local racers qualify for Mid-Ohio like they did for Laguna? ....... or is that just a last minute deal for when entries are poor?

All we have and can borrow is not much. I think we are on the very low end for every race including the Runoffs.

[GT1Vette]

Does anyone know if SCCA will create a special rule to let local racers qualify for Mid-Ohio like they did for Laguna? ....... or is that just a last minute deal for when entries are poor?

To date the special rule has been applied to the CONFERENCE hosting the Runoffs, not the division. For MRLS it was the entire Western Conference (not just SFR or NorPac) that got the extra slots (space permitting). For Daytona it was the Southeast Conference (which is also the division) that got the extra slots, so assuming the BoD is consistent (which happens on occasion) for both 2016 and now 2017 the Northern Conference (GLDiv & CENDiv) will be the recipient. But then it's only been two years of history to set establish a "tradition", so that could certainly change at any time.

[budawe]

As mentioned before, it really depends on your own area. Out west the amount of traveling for a conference championship is huge. Other parts of the country conferences are much smaller. If towing is an issue, the divisional path may be better. Depending on local competition and your class, the difference in being in the top 3 on a divisional basis could be more challenging than making the top 10 in a Majors conference. While it is possible to qualify in 3 weekends, the nationwide point system has to be remembered if you aren't in the top ten.

Costs generally depend on how much you do for yourself. Short of tires and fuel, I do everything myself and excluding travel, I can do a weekend for about $1000 to $1200. Travel like track rentals, is something SCCA cannot do anything about and ofter represent a large portion of the budget.

The hosting conference exception has always been based on available openings. If the turnout is very strong for Mid Ohio, the optional path may not be open if the class is fully subscribed.

If you have never been to a particular runoff track, a test day is mandatory. The tab for parking, entry fee and one test day at Daytona was about $1500. I would expect to spend at least $10k making and running the runoffs.

The BOD has been open to tweaking the qualification process since the markets and locations are changing. One has to remember that the easier we make it qualify, the harder it is for local regions to get enough participation to survive. It's tough to get the balance. See you at Mid O, everyone should do the runoffs at least once.

[problemchild]

To date the special rule has been applied to the CONFERENCE hosting the Runoffs, not the division. For MRLS it was the entire Western Conference (not just SFR or NorPac) that got the extra slots (space permitting). For Daytona it was the Southeast Conference (which is also the division) that got the extra slots, so assuming the BoD is consistent (which happens on occasion) for both 2016 and now 2017 the Northern Conference (GLDiv & CENDiv) will be the recipient. But then it's only been two years of history to set establish a "tradition", so that could certainly change at any time.

Thanks Butch. Does the membership ever miss your openness and clarity of communication.

[GT1Vette]

If you have never been to a particular runoff track, a test day is pretty much mandatory if you want to do well. The tab for parking, entry fee and one test day at Daytona was about $1500. I would expect to spend at least $10k making and running the runoffs.

A test day is not mandatory per any Supps I've ever seen, so I took the liberty to modify Brian's statement.

And Greg, I believe most of the membership (drivers, crew, and workers) appreciate my communication skills. Unfortunately, that skillset was not valued (and even denigrated) by some that continue to run the organization. But then some people really enjoyed racing at Daytona and others didn't.

As always, YMMV...