Formula Four

[Swift17]

Interesting - rumor it will be the under-card on Trans-Am weekends - but for now ..........


From Racer & Robin Miller ..........


Q: The FIA Formula 4 is coming to America. That's great! Or is it? What does this mean? How will this fit in over here?
Tim Davis, Detroit, MI

RM: I asked my Formula 4 expert Bryan Herta, whose son Colton is competing in the 30-race Euro Formula 4 series this season. Hertamania says Formula 4 is quicker than an F1600 but not as fast as an F2000, and he thinks there's a place for it in North America.


Q: Regarding the Sept. 17 article saying F4 arrives in the USA: why, and do we need another open-wheel division? Will it compete with already established series like USF2000? The spec of the cars seem similar.
Joe Mullins

RM: My initial reaction is that we already have too many, and we are seeing a distinctive path now with Dan Andersen's Mazda Road to Indy. Herta says cost control is Formula 4's biggest selling point. An F4 car is $53,000 compared to $85,000 for an F1600 ride.


Q: Does Formula 4 in the U.S. stand a snowball's chance? How does it propose to succeed where others have failed?
Rob Peterson, Rochester, NY

RM: Herta says it's got a chance and it makes sense because it's priced right and I guess that could be the reason it makes it or disappears in a couple years.

[marshall9]

sure is a good looking car

[Phil Picard]

Momentum MotorSports has commited to 2 Crawford F4 cars, Look for anouncements shortly

[dc]

Momentum MotorSports has commited to 2 Crawford F4 cars, Look for anouncements shortly

I think you just announced it, Phil.

[Beartrax]

I think you just announced it, Phil.

I guess the one who runs the site is allowed to be a wise guy...

Assuming an official announcement would include driver names and perhaps a little biographical information.

[dc]

I guess the one who runs the site is allowed to be a wise guy...

Assuming an official announcement would include driver names and perhaps a little biographical information.

It's the drugs talking.

[problemchild]

How do you commit?

I have tried to follow along, but all the press releases have had no specific info, and most significantly, no contact info. There was no information at the SCCA Pro website. Recently, they added a F4 page, but again, no contact info. About all I have learned is that they have FIAs blessing, they have no cars, they have no engines, they have no contact process, and they must share the website keeper with the parent club.

Does anyone out there actually have any facts, schedule info, or contact info?

[Lotus7]

How do you commit?

I have tried to follow along, but all the press releases have had no specific info, and most significantly, no contact info. There was no information at the SCCA Pro website. Recently, they added a F4 page, but again, no contact info. About all I have learned is that they have FIAs blessing, they have no cars, they have no engines, they have no contact process, and they must share the website keeper with the parent club.

Does anyone out there actually have any facts, schedule info, or contact info?

Contact David Cooper at Crawford, he'll sell you a car.
Schedule is imminent apparently.

[problemchild]

....... he'll sell you a car.

In order to sell a car to me, I would need to be able to sell the program to a customer.
I am going to need more than a multi-colored pie chart with no numbers or dates.

[Phil Picard]

http://www.momentummotorsportsllc.co...ip-series.html

[2BWise]

http://www.momentummotorsportsllc.co...ip-series.html

The following is meant to be a completely honest question to you. What is there to this new F4 series that you figured it was worth investing in? To be honest I don't understand it, but believe I must be missing something if multiple prep shops are investing. Beyond all the buzz word press releases there must be some key to F4 that you're seeing that didn't exist with the Formula Lites program. Is it the FIA endorsement?

[Lotus7]

In order to sell a car to me, I would need to be able to sell the program to a customer.
I am going to need more than a multi-colored pie chart with no numbers or dates.

No argument Greg, I agree completely.
I've waited nearly two weeks now for answers to a 30-question list I sent them.
I was merely answering an earlier poster who said he didn't know where to find info.
I used the phrase "...he'll sell you a car", as I was already told who to make my check out to when ready.

[problemchild]

No argument Greg, I agree completely.
I've waited nearly two weeks now for answers to a 30-question list I sent them.
I was merely answering an earlier poster who said he didn't know where to find info.
I used the phrase "...he'll sell you a car", as I was already told who to make my check out to when ready.

I am sincerely interested in finding out more. I was hoping somebody would "put me in my place" by providing links to all the information. I would settle for being on a mailing list ..... the mailing list that every Series has ..... ensuring I will get a hundred thousand emails with every press release, result sheet, and gossip item ..... for eternity.

I heard that they had already sold 38 cars ...... hmmmm.

[Steve Bamford]

I am sincerely interested in finding out more. I was hoping somebody would "put me in my place" by providing links to all the information. I would settle for being on a mailing list ..... the mailing list that every Series has ..... ensuring I will get a hundred thousand emails with every press release, result sheet, and gossip item ..... for eternity.

I heard that they had already sold 38 cars ...... hmmmm.

I haven't order one, interested but there has not been enough information on the series itself at this point for me to order one. I am sure there will be the five races they mentioned, I simply have no idea when & where they will be next year so do not know if I can fit them in my schedule.

I still like the idea of F4, just not as interested as I was when I had ordered a car from the other series & would like to hear more info as Greg is requesting before I consider ordering a car.

[John LaRue]

Have you tried reaching out to SCCA Pro Racing?

(785) 357-7223

rclarke@sccapro.com

[Steve Bamford]

Have you tried reaching out to SCCA Pro Racing?

(785) 357-7223

rclarke@sccapro.com

Yes.

[Steve Bamford]

Have you tried reaching out to SCCA Pro Racing?

(785) 357-7223

rclarke@sccapro.com

To expand upon my answer I also do not expect them to tell me info that has not been released to the public either.

[problemchild]

I hope they're not using the SCCA business model where the only way to find out whats really going on is private off-the-record communications with the "good old boy" network of people that make the decisions.

[marshall9]

I hope their not using the SCCA business model where the only way to find out whats really going on is private off-the-record communications with the "good old boy" network of people that make the decisions.

!!!

[Raceworks]

How do you commit?

I have tried to follow along, but all the press releases have had no specific info, and most significantly, no contact info. There was no information at the SCCA Pro website. Recently, they added a F4 page, but again, no contact info. About all I have learned is that they have FIAs blessing, they have no cars, they have no engines, they have no contact process, and they must share the website keeper with the parent club.

Does anyone out there actually have any facts, schedule info, or contact info?

Well, I think the original plan was to wait until everything was ready before making announcements but then somebody else jumped the gun & tried to start their own version of something other people were working quite a long time on. I'm not surprised the information is scanty at this point.

I'm guessing things will become more clear by the PRI show.

The contact information I've got from the brochure I was given at the Runoffs is:

SCCA Pro Racing
Reese White
rwhite@scca.com

Honda Perfromance Development
Jeff Barrow
jbarrow@hra.com
(661)-210-7532

Crawford Composites
David Cooper
dcooper@crawfordcomposites.com

Pirelli Tires
Rafel Navarro
rafel.navarro@pirelli.com

[Steve Bamford]

I see Momentum has bought two cars so far, anyone else care to say who has bought cars?

I would be interested in running if there are decent fields.

[problemchild]

SCCA Pro Racing
Reese White
rwhite@scca.com

Honda Perfromance Development
Jeff Barrow
jbarrow@hra.com
(661)-210-7532

Crawford Composites
David Cooper
dcooper@crawfordcomposites.com

Pirelli Tires
Rafel Navarro
rafel.navarro@pirelli.com

That's a start. Thanks.

[Steve Bamford]

Have you tried reaching out to SCCA Pro Racing?

(785) 357-7223

rclarke@sccapro.com

I just received a call from SCCA Pro providing some more details. I appreciate the update from their end. They let me know they realize they need to put out some more info and had an internal call about that yesterday. Other info is not for me to release.

[problemchild]

I just received a call from SCCA Pro providing some more details. I appreciate the update from their end. They let me know they realize they need to put out some more info and had an internal call about that yesterday. Other info is not for me to release.

Squeeky wheel gets the oil.
Lots of phone conversations to be had "behind the scenes" apparently.

[jkrt125]

How can cars be sold when the constructor is still looking for component pricing?

[Lotus7]

How can cars be sold when the constructor is still looking for component pricing?

This, and numerous questions like "how can they sell an F4 for half the price of a Lites?" suggest people aren't thinking outside the box.

The F4 concept has FIA-imposed costs, both for the cost of the car, and for spares. True.
But now two major, MAJOR corporations, lets hypothetically call them Honda and Pirelli, come along and see long term marketing value to their core businesses in fronting a race series, so they get together and say "you know what, even if we lose a bit of money selling cars and spares, the whole BUSINESS MODEL from a North American corporate marketing standpoint makes financial sense, so lets do it".
Just a thought.

By comparison, the FRP series, wonderful as it is and will continue to be, seems to my interpretation to be pretty much entrant-funded, (Hoosier aspect not quite as clear), but that's ok too, it works, people show up and enjoy it, it's all good.

The scca major/regional guys expressing shock at the idea of spending $100k+ on a five weekend spec series are not the target demographic for F4 (or maybe even FRP?) as I see it. But again, its all a matter of who wants what out of their racing. The rich dad who is convinced his son/daughter is the next Senna/Patrick (sorry), will not see scca majors as the road to fame. That doesnt mean scca is not relevant to hundreds of racers, it is, but just in a different context.
YMMV.

[jkrt125]

"This, and numerous questions like "how can they sell an F4 for half the price of a Lites?" suggest people aren't thinking outside the box."

Well, if Pirelli and HPD were selling the cars I'd agree with your asessment, but it appears as though Crawford is responsible for the selling of cars. Unless they are getting "subsidies" to deliver them, how does this work?

The BMW series and the "Fran-Am" nee Formula Renault cars were heavily subsidized, and they were not cheap...The "support" comes from "purses" that the Manufacturer holds out as a "golden ring."

I like the concept, just have NO idea how they will tick all the boxes...

[GAR]

I see Momentum has bought two cars so far, anyone else care to say who has bought cars?

I would be interested in running if there are decent fields.

We purchased 4 F4 cars to add to our Formula Lites program and have 2 drivers signed already for F4. Along with 2 drivers signed already for Formula Lites. http://grouparacing.net

Give or take a bit about 40 car contracts have been issued. That does not mean 40 have been sold but obviously a good percentage of those contracts will come back signed and with a deposit.

There is a lot of things that does come into the price of the car to be less. Smaller brakes, cheaper wheels, body work is not carbon, wings are not carbon, no flaps, much smaller wings, only 1 element for the rear wing and not duel upper element, more basic shocks, smaller engine, no carbon under tray, cheaper more basic electronics, cheaper gearbox mandated for all F4 cars & series etc.

I obviously can not do the math to tell you exactly how it comes out to what it does, but certainly are a number of items that adds up to bring cost down. Plus I understand that things are subsidized a bit as well, but I do not know any details to speak on in regards to that.

[Lotus7]

Well, if Pirelli and HPD were selling the cars I'd agree with your asessment, but it appears as though Crawford is responsible for the selling of cars. Unless they are getting "subsidies" to deliver them, how does this work?
...

maybe that's exactly how it's going to work ? I'm not saying I have inside info, but it sure isn't much of a stretch to accept that while the cars ultimately have to be delivered out of some singular entity (Crawford), there could be many many commercial deals in the background between any number of interested/committed partners .....

[Steve Bamford]

We purchased 4 F4 cars to add to our Formula Lites program and have 2 drivers signed already for F4. Along with 2 drivers signed already for Formula Lites. http://grouparacing.net

Give or take a bit about 40 car contracts have been issued. That does not mean 40 have been sold but obviously a good percentage of those contracts will come back signed and with a deposit.

There is a lot of things that does come into the price of the car to be less. Smaller brakes, cheaper wheels, body work is not carbon, wings are not carbon, no flaps, much smaller wings, only 1 element for the rear wing and not duel upper element, more basic shocks, smaller engine, no carbon under tray, cheaper more basic electronics, cheaper gearbox mandated for all F4 cars & series etc.

I obviously can not do the math to tell you exactly how it comes out to what it does, but certainly are a number of items that adds up to bring cost down. Plus I understand that things are subsidized a bit as well, but I do not know any details to speak on in regards to that.

The 40 or so contracts are people who have asked for a pricing package. I understand 12 deposits have been given so far.

[fitfan]

they are a support race at the Mex grand prix, correct?

[Steve Bamford]

they are a support race at the Mex grand prix, correct?

The Mygale F4 cars are as I understand. Not these Crawford cars, different series, same concept.

[stonebridge20]

Squeeky wheel gets the oil.
Lots of phone conversations to be had "behind the scenes" apparently.

Starting to figure out how SCCA works Greg?

[problemchild]

Starting to figure out how SCCA works Greg?

Oh, unfortunately, I learned that lesson a long time ago but I refuse to play that game. Messages from SCCA poiticians saying "call me" get ignored. I wish more people would do the same. So much more could be accomplished if they spent less time scheming privately and more time doing. Phone tag is so time-consuming. But yes, of course ..... "write a letter ....."

I was very impressed with the latest wrinkle. That takes balls to write a survey where you get 55% of the community to vote for an option, without telling them that their choice has been removed from that option, so they are actually voting for what they oppose. Absolutely brilliant in an evil way!

Moving on. Yes, I sent Reece an email requesting info. I would be interested in working in the Series. Hoping for some announcements soon!

[marshall9]

Oh, unfortunately, I learned that lesson a long time ago but I refuse to play that game. Messages from SCCA poiticians saying "call me" get ignored. I wish more people would do the same. So much more could be accomplished if they spent less time scheming privately and more time doing. Phone tag is so time-consuming. But yes, of course ..... "write a letter ....."

I was very impressed with the latest wrinkle. That takes balls to write a survey where you get 55% of the community to vote for an option, without telling them that their choice has been removed from that option, so they are actually voting for what they oppose. Absolutely brilliant in an evil way!

Moving on. Yes, I sent Reece an email requesting info. I would be interested in working in the Series. Hoping for some announcements soon!

So, is it only a development series, or can some fun be had racing it? I like the idea and price.....

[problemchild]

So, is it only a development series, or can some fun be had racing it? I like the idea and price.....

Licensing? It costs lots of dollars, and lots of bother, to get a license to run USF2000. Will they fastrack all these karters?

[Lotus7]

I heard that a tentative schedule was announced today. Can't find it anywhere. Anyone have any info?

heard it from whom ?

[problemchild]

This afternoon, at 3 p.m. Eastern Time, President Lisa Noble and COO Eric Prill are making one of the most exciting SCCA Announcements we’ve seen in some time, and I think you’ll agree.

What does the announcement involve? I can’t tell you. Who is with them? Sorry – sworn to secrecy. I can’t answer any questions now, and I’m sure there are plenty of guesses.

Just trust me. Tune in to SCCA.com at 3 p.m., and that’s it. Click the article; click play on the video. You’ll get all of the fun and information then!

We’re looking forward to it, and hope you are, too!

See you at an event,
Reece White
Sr. Manager, Marketing & Communications


OMG How will I ever get through the next 6 1/2 hours. We thought the target market was 14 year olds but perhaps its 8 year olds.

[Steve Bamford]

This afternoon, at 3 p.m. Eastern Time, President Lisa Noble and COO Eric Prill are making one of the most exciting SCCA Announcements we’ve seen in some time, and I think you’ll agree.

What does the announcement involve? I can’t tell you. Who is with them? Sorry – sworn to secrecy. I can’t answer any questions now, and I’m sure there are plenty of guesses.

Just trust me. Tune in to SCCA.com at 3 p.m., and that’s it. Click the article; click play on the video. You’ll get all of the fun and information then!

We’re looking forward to it, and hope you are, too!

See you at an event,
Reece White
Sr. Manager, Marketing & Communications


OMG How will I ever get through the next 6 1/2 hours. We thought the target market was 14 year olds but perhaps its 8 year olds.

where do you get your special info from? I don't see anything on the SCCA Website nor have I received an email. I guess you are special to even receive this secret news

[Wren]

This afternoon, at 3 p.m. Eastern Time, President Lisa Noble and COO Eric Prill are making one of the most exciting SCCA Announcements we’ve seen in some time, and I think you’ll agree.

What does the announcement involve? I can’t tell you. Who is with them? Sorry – sworn to secrecy. I can’t answer any questions now, and I’m sure there are plenty of guesses.

Just trust me. Tune in to SCCA.com at 3 p.m., and that’s it. Click the article; click play on the video. You’ll get all of the fun and information then!

We’re looking forward to it, and hope you are, too!

See you at an event,
Reece White
Sr. Manager, Marketing & Communications


OMG How will I ever get through the next 6 1/2 hours. We thought the target market was 14 year olds but perhaps its 8 year olds.

I got this email as well. Someone was actually paid to produce this bit of marketing genius.

I assume that Mr. White's resume was just a list of ****ty 1980's infomercials that he wrote for.