What's next for FB?

[JEREMY HILL]

My Van Diemen conversion requires ballast to get up to 1000lbs with 160 lb driver. I am opposed to a wieght increase. Jeremy

[Sean Maisey]

i am just a few lbs behind...

[teddale]

I don't think car weight is the problem. At the pit race this year Jeremy and JR had a coming together . And both got going again Jeremy had a bent A arm and about 5in toe in and set the fastest lap time. JR had no front wing what so ever and a bent steering arm and set the second fastest lap time. You see where im going with this. There's drivers and then there are drivers,

[ghickman]

I don't think car weight is the problem. At the pit race this year Jeremy and JR had a coming together . And both got going again Jeremy had a bent A arm and about 5in toe in and set the fastest lap time. JR had no front wing what so ever and a bent steering arm and set the second fastest lap time. You see where im going with this. There's drivers and then there are drivers,

We refer to that as "DOING A NIGEL".

Had a friend in UK that worked with Mansell back in the day. Dude would come into the pit with stuff bent and falling off and he had just set fast lap. Good reason for having test drivers because Mansell could never tell when crap was going off, he simply drove around the problem.

That's the difference between good and GREAT drivers. I put JRO and Jeremy in the GREAT category.

[FrankRizzo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDDxip-5RQY

Car stuck in 5th? NO MATTER!

[JohnPaul]

I've never set a track record I was happy with.

[Stan Clayton]

I've never set a track record I was happy with.

Well said, JP!

[RobLav]

Looks like restrictors are here. 2006 and older GSX-R engine may become the "spec". At least they kept it simple.

[Northwind]

So did I interpret this right?

Engines newer than 2008 are to be raced with the 37.5mm restrictor.

2007 and 2008 Suzuki are raced with 37.5mm restrictor.

All other 2007 and older engines are restrictor free.

[Daryl DeArman]

So did I interpret this right?

Engines newer than 2008 are to be raced with the 37.5mm restrictor.

2007 and 2008 Suzuki are raced with 37.5mm restrictor.

Close.

2008 and newer get 37.5.

2007 Suzuki gets 37.5

Everybody else is restrictor free.

Of course all this is subject to change with the direction of the wind.

[Gearslingr]

Hey Rob, is there a "Specific" list or table showing the restrictor sizes or is any and all Engines going to run a 37.5mm if it's newer than 2008?

I'm wondering if the Honda Engine will now be the hot ticket?
Doug

[Jnovak]

Close.

2008 and newer get 37.5.

2007 Suzuki gets 37.5

Everybody else is restrictor free.

Of course all this is subject to change with the direction of the wind.

You are mistaken Daryl. Read it again.

[Jnovak]

Hey Rob, is there a "Specific" list or table showing the restrictor sizes or is any and all Engines going to run a 37.5mm if it's newer than 2008?

I'm wondering if the Honda Engine will now be the hot ticket?
Doug

There is a table. It is here

http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files...pdf?1449506044

[SEComposites]

Well I can't figure it out then! Why is something so simple so confusing?

[Gearslingr]

Much Appreciated Jay.

Anybody want to guess what that will knock off in HP rating? George D., Got any input?

Doug

[BURKY]

[ghickman]

This is not going to somehow improve class participation for those that were under that impression.

This will be wonderful if it turns out we are the same speed as a FC.

I guess I'll roll out my badass shaped inlet / outlet venturis I made late last year. Need to mod them slightly now that we've magically gone from 42mm down to 37.5mm.

You guys should have asked me first what performance decrease this would have, I may be the only one that actually track tested the 42mm proposed restrictor from last year.

I'll go down on record as saying this will hurt the class not help it.

[SEComposites]

Close.

2008 and newer get 37.5.

2007 Suzuki gets 37.5

Everybody else is restrictor free.

Of course all this is subject to change with the direction of the wind.

Can someone explain how this is not correct then?

[Gearslingr]

The way I read it is:
2007 and 2008 Suzuki get the 37.5 along with any other engine from 2008 and newer. If its a 2007 engine or older other than the Suzuki then no restrictor.
Right?

Doug

Ooops sorry for the 37.7 earlier.. LOL

[RobLav]

I read it as Daryl, Doug, and Ben.

So the 2007 Yamaha R1 would right now be a very good engine. The 2006 version with 5 valves, the one I started with way back when, might also be good. As it turns out, I have another 2006 R1 engine sitting in CT, and an RFR chassis here in my garage. Do I really want to do this again?

[Jnovak]

The way I read it is:
2007 and 2008 Suzuki get the 37.7 along with any other engine from 2008 and newer. If its a 2007 engine or older other than the Suzuki then no restrictor.
Right?

Doug

Correct. It is not complicated at all. Read it slowly.

[SEComposites]

I must be looking at something different. Where does the 37.7mm come from?

[Mike Devins]

It is now 12/7 and these will become effective on 1/1/16.

First Majors January 8, genius! It worked so well FA a few years ago lets try it again.

Why are we doing this again?

[jchracer]

Awesome......the way I see it, the SCCA has come up with a solution to a non-problem that pretty much no one will be happy with. My faith in the SCCA is fully restored......give them enough time and they can f**k up just about.......everything.

[RobLav]

Ben - I think Doug meant 37.5.

[Daryl DeArman]

You are mistaken Daryl. Read it again.

I did. Enlighten me please.

What did I misinterpret?

[billwald]

I doubt it will be effective January 1, but there is no date. I'm guessing sometime after the January Majors.

[Jnovak]

I did. Enlighten me please.

What did I misinterpret?

My mistake Daryl, I misinterpreted your post. Here is a rephrase that works for my limited language skills.

All engines 2008 and newer get a 37.5mm restrictor

The 2007 Suzuki also gets a 37.5mm restrictor

All other engines 2007 or older do not have a restrictor.

Just a note guys. This is the common restrictor size for all newer 1000cc stock engines in the P2 class. There has been a ton of dyno work done using this type of restrictor and the dyno guys say the engines run much nicer than with a true flat plate restrictor. I have been told that this type of restrictor with the 37.5mm size is about flow equivalent to a 41mm flat plate but is really a Venturi type restrictor.

I was on the P2 ad hoc committee and that is where I learned about this type of restrictor. I believe that this was done because a true flat plate restrictor can be tricked into flowing a lot more air with just about any air horn. The P2 guys like this solution. The P2 Race at the Runoffs was won by a 1000cc stock Suzuki with this type of 37.5mm restrictor.

[Daryl DeArman]

The way I read it is:
2007 and 2008 Suzuki get the 37.5 along with any other engine from 2008 and newer. If its a 2007 engine or older other than the Suzuki then no restrictor.
Right?

Doug

Correct. Which isn't what you said the first time. I said close because you overlooked the 2008 model year motors that weren't Suzuki.

[ghickman]

Looks like it's time to dust off the 2006 GSXR1000 motors boys.

This proposed rule change is just plain dumb.

Really guys do you want to go slower? Are any of you somehow afraid of going fast? Or do you feel your safety is somehow in jeopardy?

Or is that you somehow feel JRO was cheating or sand bagging?? I've heard that nonsense for months now, get over it.

Stop this madness now. I'm going to fight this rule change who's with me?

[Mike Devins]

I doubt it will be effective January 1, but there is no date. I'm guessing sometime after the January Majors.

Now I could be wrong but this does not take vote from the board, it is a competition adjustment. As soon as it is published it is effective.

[jchracer]

Looks like it's time to dust off the 2006 GSXR1000 motors boys.

This proposed rule change is just plain dumb.

Really guys do you want to go slower? Are any of you somehow afraid of going fast? Or do you feel your safety is somehow in jeopardy?

Or is that you somehow feel JRO was cheating or sand bagging?? I've heard that nonsense for months now, get over it.

Stop this madness now. I'm going to fight this rule change who's with me?

I am with you 100%. How does one go about trying to inject some sanity into the process?

[RobLav]

Looks like a Competition Adjustment. Done deal, for now.

[Jnovak]

Looks like a Competition Adjustment. Done deal, for now.

A done deal as it is a competition adjustment from the CRB. Not reviewed by the BOD or others.

I have been told by someone in the P2 community that the 37.5mm restrictor took off less than 5 hp peak off of his GSXR1000 stock motor but it had a bit more torque. He did not show me his dyno data but I believe him as I have known him for a long time. This should not have a big impact on lap times IMO.

[JerryH]

REDICULAS AND NONSENSE ARE NOT STRONG ENOUGH.....but I am biting my lip.

THIS IS A PANIC REACTION TO DAYTONA SPEEDS......which is a good reason to not run Daytona.....not a reason to slow the cars down. Same engine as P2.....so that is where we will be. FOR NO REAL REASON!!

Upon hearing rumor of this a couple weeks ago, I wrote 3 letters to the crb. Here is a summary of those three request:

1. 41 mm restrictors for 09 and newer engines, (cause kaw has 15 hp advantage). I left Honda unrestricted thru 2014. All engines would have been closer in power. The law about 5 more. This is based on the dyno work George dean did for the ad hoc committee 1 1/2 years ago.

2. Daytona speeds are no reason to slow the cars down. It is a reason not to run Daytona.

3. Allow aftermarket valves, valve springs. Cheaper, better aftermarket valves that don't break are available.

I KNOW AT LEAST A DOZEN GUYS WHO WROTE LETTERS SUPPORTING MY LETTERS. POSSIBLY AS MANY AS 20. They were obviously ignored.

My letter is at the top of this decision.....BUT I DID NOT ASK FOR 37.5 RESTRICTORS.....OR TO SLOW THE CARS DOWN. NEITHER DID ANYONE ELSE.

We have to stop this.....IT WILL KILL THE CLASS!

Jerry Hodges

[JerryH]

A done deal as it is a competition adjustment from the CRB. Not reviewed by the BOD or others.

I have been told by someone in the P2 community that the 37.5mm restrictor took off less than 5 hp peak off of his GSXR1000 stock motor but it had a bit more torque. He did not show me his dyno data but I believe him as I have known him for a long time. This should not have a big impact on lap times IMO.

George Dean told me a week or so ago that it cost about 5 to 7......and that he had not tested the kaw with that restrictor......because no one had ask him to......so p2 sizes were chosen without sufficient data.

For People who argue that P2 is growing so it must work:
When you bring In several cars that were no longer competitive in dsr....and add other classes as well, the numbers will grow. Few if any new cars are being built.

NO ONE IS THIS CLASS WANTS TO GO P2 SPEEDS!

Jerry

[JerryH]

I had two prospective buyers call tonight and say they no longer had an interest in getting in the class.

Coincidence? Nope......they said the speed of the class....for the cost..... was the main attraction.



Jerry

[JerryH]

A done deal as it is a competition adjustment from the CRB. Not reviewed by the BOD or others.

I have been told by someone in the P2 community that the 37.5mm restrictor took off less than 5 hp peak off of his GSXR1000 stock motor but it had a bit more torque. He did not show me his dyno data but I believe him as I have known him for a long time. This should not have a big impact on lap times IMO.

P2 speeds and lap times are considerably slower than FB. With same restrictor as P2 we will be the same as they are.

Jerry

[Jnovak]

George Dean told me a week or so ago that it cost about 5 to 7......and that he had not tested the kaw with that restrictor......because no one had ask him to......so p2 sizes were chosen without sufficient data.

For People who argue that P2 is growing so it must work:
When you bring In several cars that were no longer competitive in dsr....and add other classes as well, the numbers will grow. Few if any new cars are being built.

NO ONE IS THIS CLASS WANTS TO GO P2 SPEEDS!

Jerry

Did you see what the pole went for in P2 at Daytona? It was faster than all but a couple of FB cars.

Jerry, even George Dean says minus 5 hp for the restrictors plus 2 ft-lbs torque. This will not slow the car much at all and you know it. but will stop or delay the speed creep towards F Atlantic. I bet that your best Suzuki motors that you had at the Runoffs have 5 more HP than your engine had in the car that Loshak drove to a 2:04 at Road America.

You were on the FB ad hoc committee and I am sure you remember the task we were given and the reasons why. Why do you think that has changed? It has not.

The CRB had to start somewhere and they did. The CRB can make adjustments at any time and if there is an imbalance then it will be corrected.

[Jnovak]

P2 speeds and lap times are considerably slower than FB. With same restrictor as P2 we will be the same as they are.

Jerry

Jerry you should probably look up the P2 times at Daytona. The pole was 1.1 seconds slower than the pole in FB. Is that considerable slower?