USF4 Test

[Steve Bamford]

Give SCCA Pro has announced a new series and a new car, has an actual Crawford F4 actually been built and tested in the real world?

According to the press release not as of yet and this would be done in a month or so with the driver who did the Formula Lites testing, I'm sorry I don't recall their name at this time. The package still needs to be homiligated by the FIA but I doubt that will be an issue other then a little bit of timing.

[Dennis McCarthy]

If that is the case then obviously no lessons were learned from Fran-Am or the FE rollout debacle....

[provamo]

so i guess Katherine Legge spoke highly of a car she had not driven...

anyway i am beginning to align my feelings with the guy here who says spec racing is communist racing (and i am a leftist)

[Steve Bamford]

so i guess Katherine Legge spoke highly of a car she had not driven...

anyway i am beginning to align my feelings with the guy here who says spec racing is communist racing (and i am a leftist)

Here is what I read in the press release:

"A show car built around a FL15 monocoque, but with F4-spec aerodynamics, was unveiled on the launch of the F4 championship on Thursday at Austin.

Testing of the definitive car is scheduled to begin next month in the hands of Katherine Legge, who also carried out development work on the FL15."

Here is the link to the release. http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120857

[NPalacioM3]

Nick,

Can you actually win without having a great team behind you? Tim is probably the lowest cost champion in the Pro Series but that wasn't cheap either. Look at all the development he did over the last three years and the costs involved with that also the team he had.

I am not saying you need a 200 k rig, but if you run 3 or more cars for arrive as drive you will need something close to that. Otherwise it simply means more vehicles and actually costs more money.

Prove me wrong please as I do wish I could make racing cheaper.

I am not arguing what a team needs as far as infrastructure to run an operation with multiple cars. I am saying that people do not need that to be successful, or a full on prep shop to run them. And that wasn't the case back when these classes were thriving. Did they exist and people use them? Sure. But lots of guys showed up with their own setups and were as competitive as they come. Oh I dunno, someone named Dave Weitzenhoff comes to mind. Chas Shaffer? Towed his car in a horse trailer back in the day. People like this are out there, they just don't come race with us. We need to attract more like that, then people see this as within reach.

That's just my .02. I am not saying it's the answer, I am just saying it's what I hear from guys I know who run tin tops. Once the car counts and popularity pick up, I would expect the prices to get in check. But who knows....

[Modo]

Formula Modo, V8, space frame, nice glass, u have to talk to me to get licensed to drive one of those babies, call it, Bernie West, FBW !!!! Screw F4 bozos in the US .....


U put two lawn mowers together, what do u have, a 'HARLY DAVIDSON'!!!!!!!

more of a Ducati guy myself, cafe racer

[a. pettipas]

Just a tad above a top shelf FC car. For a whole lot more money.

We don't need another Formula class.

I don't disagree with the main point of your post but this car - at the quoted power/weight - will not be faster than FC/F2000; power is a little in excess of a good, blueprinted Zetec (or probably strong Pinto?) but the stated DRY weight is just ~50lbs shy of F2000 post-race weight including driver, so with 150lb driver, 1ga left in the cell and other fluids this F4 would tip the impound scales well over 1300lbs. Not going to run with an FC/F2000, other factors being equal of course... which they aren't because F2000 has better wings too

[dsmithwc04]

As a relatively young newcomer to open wheel racing I must say that it is threads like this that scare my demographic away from club racing. My demographic being 28-35 year olds without daddy's money. Too many classes, too many opinions and apparently bad leadership are killing amatuer racing in the US IMO.

I don't see the problem being resolved anytime soon. Who will I be racing with when some of you older guys stop making it to the track? My generation, maybe... the next generation... nope. When the SCCA eventually has 231 classes of open wheel racing with 1 competitor competing in each class all on the track in the same group we will finally have arrived to the inevitable.

Club racing needs an enema.

Sorry about the rant folks.

[Peter Olivola]

Where did you get the idea that F4 was going to be a Club Racing class?

As a relatively young newcomer to open wheel racing I must say that it is threads like this that scare my demographic away from club racing. My demographic being 28-35 year olds without daddy's money. Too many classes, too many opinions and apparently bad leadership are killing amatuer racing in the US IMO.

I don't see the problem being resolved anytime soon. Who will I be racing with when some of you older guys stop making it to the track? My generation, maybe... the next generation... nope. When the SCCA eventually has 231 classes of open wheel racing with 1 competitor competing in each class all on the track in the same group we will finally have arrived to the inevitable.

Club racing needs an enema.

Sorry about the rant folks.

[EACIII]

So are you saying the F4 cars were designed as throw away cars? Once the current cars are no longer competitive in the Pro Series they get crushed as the SCCA will not allow them as Club cars? Or does the SCCA assume other groups will accept them?

Wow, I didn't know that.


Ed

[dsmithwc04]

Where did you get the idea that F4 was going to be a Club Racing class?

How many of these "pro" series cars are now club racers? To think F4 isnt another inevitable club racer seams a bit naive, no?

These are club racing cars running in a slightly brighter spotlight.

Edit: peter, after reading my post i wanted to assure I meant no disrespect. I hope it did not come off this way.

[Raceworks]

So are you saying the F4 cars were designed as throw away cars? Once the current cars are no longer competitive in the Pro Series they get crushed as the SCCA will not allow them as Club cars? Or does the SCCA assume other groups will accept them?

Wow, I didn't know that.


Ed

Given that it's a spec class, how are the current cars going to be rendered uncompetitive?

[dsmithwc04]

Formula Enterprise was a "pro" series spec class that now runs as a spec class in club racing. I dont think the F4 will be relagated obsolete to cars in its class, just that it may suffer the inevitable demise of most other amatuer "pro" series and it will could then become a club racer. Unless of course F4 brings in new racers, which i would then label it a success as long as those drivers join the club scene once reality hits.

[Raceworks]

How many of these "pro" series cars are now club racers? To think F4 isnt another inevitable club racer seams a bit naive, no?

Unless somebody insists on a new class for them, why is this even a problem?

From memory: I can think of the following pro open wheel series that have been introduced since I started racing in SCCA in 1995:

• Formula Maza
• Pro Zetec
• Formula BMW
• Pro Formula Mazda (the newer carbon-tubbed cars)
• Fran-Am
• Formula Speed 2.0
• VW Formula Car Series
• Formula Lites
• USF2000
• The revamped Pro Atlantic Series (Swift 016)

FE is decidedly not on that list because it was intended to be a Pro/Club class from the beginning, based in part on the idea that in 2003/4 Star Race Cars was going to pull the plug on the old Formula Mazdas and those cars were going to go away overnight.

I'm not even sure if Formula Mazda really belongs there because I can't remember if they weren't already in club racing at the time.

The Formula VW series ran alongside SCCA pro races in 2000 or 2001. They didn't even sell six cars and after the first season they disappered.

Of those, I've seen Fran-Am & Formula BMW cars at one or two club events (as FS cars), but to my knowledge none of those cars are still extant.

Pro Formula Mazda can be run in FA (and I drove one in a couple races back in 2004), the Swift 016's got homologated for FA as well. The Zetecs got put into FC, and prior to last year the USF2000's were just spec Van Diemen Zetec FC cars.

So maybe half of the pro cars ended up in club racing, and the ones that stayed on anything like a regular basis were really just variations of existing classes / cars.


It gets even less likely when you factor in the school cars. How many Russell, Bondurant, or Bertil Roos cars ended up in club racing? Maybe some of the Rotary Rockets cars will end up in SCCA, but those are just Formula Mazdas anyway.

[Raceworks]

Formula Enterprise was a "pro" series spec class that now runs as a spec class in club racing. I dont think the F4 will be relagated obsolete to cars in its class, just that it may suffer the inevitable demise of most other amatuer "pro" series and it will could then become a club racer. Unless of course F4 brings in new racers, which i would then label it a success as long as those drivers join the club scene once reality hits.

I remember things differently: FE was allowed in club racing from day 1 (in FA), and I was told the intent was to create an alternative to Formula Mazda in Club Racing because the belief was that with the new pro FM cars coming out there would be no more parts support for the "classic" FM cars.

[Peter Olivola]

Sam Lockwood has provided an excellent explanation for what has been happening with pro series cars and Club Racing.

So are you saying the F4 cars were designed as throw away cars? Once the current cars are no longer competitive in the Pro Series they get crushed as the SCCA will not allow them as Club cars? Or does the SCCA assume other groups will accept them?

Wow, I didn't know that.


Ed

[Peter Olivola]

No disrespect taken. See Sam Lockwoods excellent post on what's really been happening with ex-pro series cars in Club Racing.

How many of these "pro" series cars are now club racers? To think F4 isnt another inevitable club racer seams a bit naive, no?

These are club racing cars running in a slightly brighter spotlight.

Edit: peter, after reading my post i wanted to assure I meant no disrespect. I hope it did not come off this way.

[allof6]

http://www.scca.com/articles/1999050...ds-by-crawford

[mazda17]

Quite a few holes/issues with this story. I am not sure which is more impressive, the possibility of going straight from F4 to Indy Lights/Indycar or GP1.

[dsmithwc04]

Quite a few holes/issues with this story. I am not sure which is more impressive, the possibility of going straight from F4 to Indy Lights/Indycar or GP1.

Remember, talent walks and money talks. If dad has the money then there shouldn't be a problem getting to Indy Lights or GP3 or perhaps even GP2. Look at Pastor Maldonado in F1. Has a seat in the pinnacle of auto racing even though he has a website dedicated to counting his bonehead crashes.

[Kazis31]

• Formula Maza
• Pro Zetec
• Formula BMW
• Pro Formula Mazda (the newer carbon-tubbed cars)
• Fran-Am
• Formula Speed 2.0
• VW Formula Car Series
• Formula Lites
• USF2000
• The revamped Pro Atlantic Series (Swift 016)

you missed USF3......

[stonebridge20]

-

[dsmithwc04]

You realize you linked the same article as above right?

[stonebridge20]

You realize you linked the same article as above right?

Nope, I missed it. Thanks!

[Skeezix]

So did Crawford copy a 2007 Lola or did FIA base F4 on the same?

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/lo...38350126ss.htm

https://www.simraceway.com/