Formula Lites are at MSR Houston this weekend. I wonder if they will have any info.Originally Posted by Monty M
Formula Lites are at MSR Houston this weekend. I wonder if they will have any info.
Crossle 32F, Piper DF5 Honda
amazing
I am always amazed how easily SCCA can screw up anything. It is sad that FRP cannot, or will not, fight this. SCCA needs to be put back in their place and leave successful racing ventures alone. I hope anyone that purchased a Mygale/Ford can leave it and the invoice on the doorstep of Topeka SCCA. I'm sure they can find a class to run them in.
Another great reason to go vintage racing..
-Bob
The link for F4 is for a Tatuus/Cosworth.......not a Mygale.....wassup ???
That car is an "F4+" that Palmer commissioned specifically to have something quicker than the FIA F4 to offer arrive-and-race customers in England.
I suspect that what Bob means is that he's letting scca have the FIA F4 series, but he is similarly going to jump straight to an F4+ .... might be Tattus/Cosworth, might be something else. Point is, being non-FIA, it can be whatever Bob and Al figure is best for their series.
Just want to make sure Agnif et al understand Rand has absolutely nothing to do with FRP/F4/any of this ridiculous situation.
Unless sitting in the shade with a beverage observing the cartoons qualifies as involvement........
It's amazing how many posts here are clueless speculation !
Like Milos Mindbender, they hope to make up the difference in volume.
I know your not involved in any of this and haven't been for a while, but I also know
what your "excitement" level is capable of.
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Ben, Apexspeed only gets info from SCCA on a "need to know" basis.
So, the rest of the time we make stuff up to fill the hours till we leave for the Runons.
Insiders like yourself and Steve have to keep it close to the chest.
Meanwhile, more will be imagined as we wait for the press conferences....
Most of the crowd on Apexspeed are dues paying members of SCCA. As such they are shareholders, and have an interest in how their money is being spent.
USF4 Test
Ben, Apexspeed only gets info from SCCA on a "need to know" basis.
So, the rest of the time we make stuff up to fill the hours till we leave for the Runons.
Insiders like yourself and Steve have to keep it close to the chest.
Meanwhile, more will be imagined as we wait for the press conferences....
This.
Why is the press conference at COTA?
Exactly. Looking over the SCCA pro website, it appears that all of the series that are currently sanctioned are being run by other people. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I know that SCCA pro often provides staff like stewards and other positions, but they are trading labor for dollars, not running a series. It appears that in this case, the SCCA is going to be in charge of the series. I know that Lisa is involved as she was around at Pittsburg to meet with FRP.Most of the crowd on Apexspeed are dues paying members of SCCA. As such they are shareholders, and have an interest in how their money is being spent.
When was the last time that the SCCA was responsible for a series? Was it the last iteration of Trans-Am?
There were people who complained about SCCA pro sanctioning Formula Lites since they didn't believe that another series was needed. I thought that was wrong since someone was going to sanction it and SCCA pro might as well take their money, but now SCCA pro seems to be interested in picking winners and losers.
My limited experience with SCCA pro has been entirely positive. They seemed to know what they were doing and put on good events. My lack of faith in the Lisa and SCCA leadership is unlimited. Clueless is the nicest thing I can say about them. Why does the SCCA all of the sudden feel the need to start running a race series?
Last edited by Wren; 09.17.15 at 12:37 PM.
You are right:
A look at their website:
World Challenge: Team owners took over the series from SCCA Pro; SCCA Pro helps sanction it and provides staff.
Trans-Am: Team owners took over the series from SCCA Pro; SCCA Pro helps sanction it and provides staff.
MX-5: SCCA runs the whole show and Mazda pays for it.
F1600/F2000/Atlantic: SCCA sanctions.
Formula Lites: Not Sure.
The people I have worked with and met that are part of the SCCA Pro field staff have all been awesome.
I'm sure all the details will be out today and in the coming weeks but the mantra used to be SCCA Pro is a service organization (thus not assuming risk in under-writing schedules, TV, etc.).
http://www.racer.com/scca-home/item/...ves-in-the-usa
Looks like a Formula Lites repurposed. I don't see how this becomes any ore successful than the current FLites program. It will be interesting to hear what the schedule will be.
There you have it. All you need to know.
Looks like $23,000.00 per weekend, $7,666.67 per race based on the numbers listed in the article.
I am surprised it is only 5 venue/weekend series & also would be nice to know the venues & dates.
Steve Bamford
I love the logic...
There is a group that for the past decade has put on the most successful open wheel series (plural) in the United States, with high car counts exceeding Indycar and the like. And, SCCA Pro profited from their series with almost no expense on Pro's part.
So, we'll take F4 away from them and let SCCA Pro do it.
Yep. Love it.
Not knowing all the details I am sure it was the right decision.
Honestly asking, not trying to be snarky: What happens to the 14 Mygales that were sold in order to race in the (now canceled) FRP series?
"I love the smell of race fuel in the morning. It smells like victory!"
Barry Wilcock
Pit Crew: Tumenas Motorsports/Houndspeed, Fat Boy Racing
"five-venue, 15-race professional series"
Does that mean 5 weekends, 3 races per? or will they repeat venues....
Is one set of tires reasonable for 3 races? (Tires allotted per weekend)
.
The engine lease is a slick move to get under the cost cap as the price tag of that motor would not meet the FIA regs. Props to whoever thought that one up.
I wonder what happens when you fill your radiators with grass and dirt and cook it?
"This motor you leased me is not working. May I please have a replacement?"
That might work...
"I love the smell of race fuel in the morning. It smells like victory!"
Barry Wilcock
Pit Crew: Tumenas Motorsports/Houndspeed, Fat Boy Racing
I'm assuming their 115K number is some rent a ride cost?
I suspect it is also going to turn off privateer efforts.
It's hard for me to believe that the cost of this car is not subsidized in some way. The pictures look like the formula lites car with some different wings on it (I assume that those are just renderings though). What is going to be so different about the F4 car that they can cut the price that much? Mygale and Tatuus are selling these cars in much larger volumes than Crawford is going to. I also suspect that they are making all of their money on spare parts sales. I think I have a pretty decent idea of what goes into putting a race car on track and there are so many fixed costs (fuel cell, steering rack, bolts, plumbing, wheels, etc.) that I can't believe they can do it.
I guess the real test is whether or not I can call up Crawford and buy a chassis for $45k even if I don't want to run F4.
The timing seems bizarre to me too. It's the middle of September. The prep shops that I talk to have already sold their seats for next year and know their schedules. I hope that the SCCA has been working with some teams/prep shops to get some buy in. Everything hinges on good prep shop involvement.
Also, nothing in that press release relieves me of the notion that the SCCA is owning this. I know they have sponsor money, but this is a change in direction for the club.
I would assume so as well. I read on here that there are actual rules in place in Europe regarding cost containment and how much a team can charge for a season. Can anyone actually confirm that? The US has a lot more potential for long tows than some other countries. A prep shops proximity to the race tracks is going to play a much bigger role in cost here.
$23k/weekend?!? Damn. It's a good thing they are doing something to control costs before things start getting expensive.
It actually makes sense. You never work on a motor. Just swap 'em.
Honda controls/seals them.
The Q is does it really meet FIA regs ? (cost is supposed to include an engine at purchase)
The annual lease fee also encourages more time in the seat (if it includes breakdown replacement). 1 race cost=$6k, 15 race cost=$6k. Or will the lease have an hour meter and assume a certain number of hours....
The devil is in the details....
There are rules in place to limit the cost of the car, tires, entry, tires, licensing fees, etc. Literally everything. Actual rental costs will vary by team.
There is even a limit as to how long a driver is allowed to race in F4. Those drivers can all accumulate FIA points, which is important to the European ladder.
More information here:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120857
includes plans for 17 and 18 and a quote from Clark about how they want to re-establish SCCA as a major sanctioning body.
I guess it would have been asking too much to hope for SCCA to use any sort of modern technology like Periscope to make the press conference available to people. For some reason I picture the SCCA leadership wandering around with flip phones.
This really seems like an ego thing for SCCA.
There is the famous case of a Ferrari DNF attributed to "electrical failure"... because the piston rod sheared a wire as it came through the block..
Caldwell D9B - Sold
Crossle' 30/32/45 Mongrel - Sold
RF94 Monoshock - here goes nothin'
That makes no sense to me. I have over 4000 miles on my Fit motor. A 158 HP K20 should last a long time.
Crossle 32F, Piper DF5 Honda
Do you really believe people in F1600 and F2000 aren't already paying this, or more?
I am willing to wager many people would look at 115K as a good deal. Hell of a lot cheaper than some of the options out there and SCCA will likely have this series running at major tracks with big events (which kiddies and daddies like). So they will likely look at it as a direct competitor to Dan's series. And I think Dan might have a small problem on his hands this time. With the FIA seemingly to be behind this SCCA venture, and the big selling point being these precious FIA superlicense points I kept hearing about at Pitt, if I am the dad of some quick kiddo with his eye on F1, there is only one option here in the US.
-Nick
Nick,
Yes I consider 23 k expensive for a car that was supposed to make racing more affordable as that was one of the major selling features. Look at what FE costs for an arrive and drive per weekend that is a spec class which this is as well.
You also seemed very negative towards this in many posts when FRP was running an F4 car and now you seem to say it makes some sense and Anderson should watch out? I don't understand the sudden change in your opinion but maybe I am simply misreading your post so that is why I am asking your thoughts on this.
As for costs USF runs many more events and if you break it down per event you are almost even. Not sure how this makes sense for a cheap entry level car.
Steve Bamford
Some get 4000mi, some get 4000ft. The series is about cost control. So having a fixed cost for a motor does make sense.
It's like insurance. Spread the risk....
I don't think Honda is going to make money on this if they are providing track-side support, etc. for $400/race....
There's people paying $18k per weekend to run F1600.
Well, I meant the 115K/season number in comparison to what other series' costs are, not necessarily the per weekend cost. I for one am not calling that inexpensive at all, I am saying some might however look at it as a "good deal". And I am sure people are spending 20K+/weekend in F2000, or even F1600 for that matter.
What I am saying is that Dan will be fighting to attract the same drivers he targets now (kids) since this could be a viable alternative in their eyes. I do not think FRP was ever really an option for them, which is why I pointed out before how the kids that come into F1600 with FRP, skip F2000 and go over to Dan's series to run USF. You and I have agreed on this, it has the show factor and they want that. Now Dan will potentially have some competition in that regard and it could present a problem for that targeted group. I think F4 with FRP would have just created more problems.
My very first post in the other F4 thread about this was I thought FRP was missing their target demographic here, and I stand by that.
-Nick
Not really, if you know a few more details (and NO I'm not telling). The whole thing to me seems like it's more about poor communication and people not thinking things through fully.
I am aware of that. SCCA claims to see the problem as well. Their solution is something that will cost 28% more per weekend.
I'm less sure. Dan has a proven product that he gets to run on Indycar weekends. His ability to market the Mazda Road to Indy is a real difference maker. Since the SCCA still hasn't released a schedule, we don't know who they are running with, but I am sure it won't be with Indycar. There just aren't that many more options. I guess they could try to squeeze into a Tudor weekend if they can bump someone else.
Formula Lites has run at regional weekends. This weekend they are running at an MSR Houston membership open lapping day.
I'm with you on that. I thought that the FRP F4 was just going to serve to further dilute the driver base. I heard the same bitching and concerns from other competitors and prep shops.I think F4 with FRP would have just created more problems.
My very first post in the other F4 thread about this was I thought FRP was missing their target demographic here, and I stand by that.
That is hysterical. Well, if SCCA wants any chance at this working with F4, they will need to do a lot better than that in my opinion.
True on the other stuff, Dan is good at what he does. Still targeting the same people, so we will have to see how it plays out. Let them figure it out and in the meantime, I think FRP still has a good package which could thrive again with a few tweaks.
-Nick
I'm wondering if the car FRP is referring to is F3 compliant?
USF3-Atlantic ---has a nice ring to it ---
My initial enthusiasm for F4 has suddenly waned. I fear this will be a case of "it could have been something great but..."
I might have missed this somewhere but is this in addition to Formula Lites (or whatever it is), instead of, or the same thing but with a different name?
Interesting article:
http://www.motorsport.com/formula4/n...-championship/
"Clarke said that FIA F4 races will be run on the same weekend as Pirelli World Challenge and Trans Am series' events with three races per weekend and five rounds in 2016, with events taking place in the eastern half of the United States. A western regional championship was not ruled out for future years."
-Nick
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